Is Intel going to deliver a processor/chipset worth waiting for?

[sLowEnd]

Meteor Lake is looking like a lame filler gen, like Rocket Lake. (Except in this case Intel isn't even confident enough to put out desktop parts) I don't have high expectations for Arrow Lake based on current rumors, but anything is possible after that.

 

[Gica]

That idle power figure keeps geting bumped up for every post it's mentioned lol.

The 14600K uses 93 W on average in applications (TPU), and the 7600X uses 60 W, but you conveniently left out that part.

Why not?
Reading what I haven't read on this threead (+ TPU news) + small changes in an Excel file. The jump to 40W was for collecting the bonus from a game (see iGPU Usage)
In translation: a processor that competes with Ryzen 7, supports DDR4 (that's what I have) and is much cheaper. In my case: the price of 13500+MoBo= only 7700X. The memories were recovered from the old combo.
Don't forget: I love the E-core "waste".

 

[sLowEnd]

Why not?
Reading what I haven't read on this threead (+ TPU news) + small changes in an Excel file. The jump to 40W was for collecting the bonus from a game (see iGPU Usage)
In translation: a processor that competes with Ryzen 7, supports DDR4 (that's what I have) and is much cheaper. In my case: the price of 13500+MoBo= only 7700X. The memories were recovered from the old combo.
Don't forget: I love the E-core "waste".

Is it a meaningful contribution to the system's overall idle power consumption relative to the competition, though? From what I can see here, most of these systems don't differ very much in idle power draw from the wall.

AMD Ryzen 5 5600 Review - Fantastic Choice for Upgrades from Older Ryzens

AMD's Ryzen 5 5600 is a great choice for the value-oriented buyer. It actually offers the best price/performance ratio of all Ryzen 5000 processors on the market. Thanks to recent BIOS updates, you can easily install this processor in first-generation Ryzen systems, making it a super affordable...

www.techpowerup.com

AMD Ryzen 7 8700G processor review (Page 4)

In this review, we'll delve into the Ryzen 7 8700G, a $329 processor that comes equipped with the AMD Radeon 760M integrated graphics processor. This release introduces the first 8000 series for the AM5 socket, these processors are essentially Zen4/RDNA3 mobile chips repurposed for desktop use.

www.guru3d.com

Or, do you suppose there was an issue with testing methodologies here?

 

[nomdeplume]

There is also the budget range like my 12100F, when I bought this in 2022 february

Half of today was thinking about how other than being 65w and locked the 13400 is a mirror of 12600K. I could stick with mATX and just transfer nearly everything over to a new mobo for half or less. Paying $300+ for nearing EOL mobo alone or getting processor+mobo for less. My 60Hz 65" tv isn't going anywhere. That changes the performance equation.

There is, budget segment.

For what its worth the 12100F is cheaper than a R5 5500 where I live and its faster too in gaming, if I step it up to the i5 range then the 12400F and 5600 is about the same price so pick your poison basically. 'at that point mobo prices,etc comes into play'

You're both killing me here. Almost didn't look at the most current page before hitting Post Reply.

Over and over I keep coming back to how many times I've laughed at people for leaving the dealer with a lame new car because they decided to focus on anything but reality of having to drive it every day.

Edit: I keep getting sidetracked from focusing on what I actually need to run games I'll play with 3080 my current build has formally rejected. Only cooling 65w is either a mindset I need to abandon immediately or make work long term.

 

[JustBenching]

That idle power figure keeps geting bumped up for every post it's mentioned lol.

The 14600K uses 93 W on average in applications (TPU), and the 7600X uses 60 W, but you conveniently left out that part.

No it hasn't been getting bumped up. I posted a review measuring from the wall, they measured 41w higher power drawn between intel and zen 4

For 44% more money. If all you do is game, which is true for the vast majority of people buying those cpu's, then it's insanely BAD value. And cpu popularity i linked shows it aswell.

Same for the 3d, 50% more money for 5% more performance, great value there.

Btw, ecores off is the most silly thing you can do if you want gaming performance. HT off ecores on offers the best performance, especially 1% lows.

Is it a meaningful contribution to the system's overall idle power consumption relative to the competition, though? From what I can see here, most of these systems don't differ very much in idle power draw from the wall.

AMD Ryzen 5 5600 Review - Fantastic Choice for Upgrades from Older Ryzens

AMD's Ryzen 5 5600 is a great choice for the value-oriented buyer. It actually offers the best price/performance ratio of all Ryzen 5000 processors on the market. Thanks to recent BIOS updates, you can easily install this processor in first-generation Ryzen systems, making it a super affordable...

www.techpowerup.com

AMD Ryzen 7 8700G processor review (Page 4)

In this review, we'll delve into the Ryzen 7 8700G, a $329 processor that comes equipped with the AMD Radeon 760M integrated graphics processor. This release introduces the first 8000 series for the AM5 socket, these processors are essentially Zen4/RDNA3 mobile chips repurposed for desktop use.

www.guru3d.com

Or, do you suppose there was an issue with testing methodologies here?

Of course there was an issue. Check the mobos tested. 12th gen had the asus hero, a mobo with a gazilion features rgb everywhere and a freaking display. On the mobo. Am4 used this

Spoiler

[/SOILER]

 

[Dr. Dro]

Reality is in your own answer here. The Zen 2 3300X was just like a 4 core Zen 3. The main thing that change performance in both ADL->RPL and Zen 2- Zen 3 was cache changes. They are the same microarchitecture. Mucking with the cache doesn't change the pipelines or instruction width.

I've seen this marketing hype many times, where a 'new generation' CPU came out but was really same as the old one with more / faster cache and claimed to be a redesign. HP did the same thing with some of their PA-RISC chip releases, and I'd bet IBM did it with Power. Heck car makers do it all the time. New sheetmetal, same frame and powertrain.

Now I'm not saying it doesn't change performance - but it's not a new microarchitecture. Fact is, Zen 2 was starved by its cache, and Alder Lake had latency issues with its cache. These are all just evolutionary moves. for that matter - surprise - Zen 4 is as well.

But hey, don't believe me.

Believe Intel :

Intel Docs List Raptor Lake With Same Microarchitectures as Alder Lake

Details about Intel's next-generation cores revealed.

www.tomshardware.com

Nah, the 3300X wasn't really all that it was cracked up to be. It just had no additional execution units beyond that single CCX, something that AMD rectified by the 5800X.

This info on Intel is very out of date though and turned out to be inaccurate, Raptor Cove does have physical changes vs. Golden Cove and is an improvement over ADL. Reading back when they thought 14th Gen would be Meteorlake instead of just the laziest rehash this industry has ever seen is pretty funny though.

The Ultra tag means that the CPU has AI processing capabilities.

Ultra just means "current generation microarchitecture" according to Intel. The non-Ultra Core processors feature a "previous generation uArch"; which in the present could be Raptor or Alder-based Core processors. Of course, by rehashing the 13th gen desktop into a totally real 14th gen and keeping the nomenclature, they did everyone an even bigger favor in confusing everyone about their new naming scheme (which sucks). But hey hey wait a minute, it is now Intel Core i9 processor 14900K, no longer something lame like "13th Gen Intel Core i9-13900K" or something like that! Bro!

Not true, since there are substantial temperature improvements between 13th and 14th gen, even with same power limits and boost clicks etc. So while some specs on paper are identical, there's hardware differences.

Nothing I've heard of. Seems anecdotal at best, as far as I've been able to tell, the improvements are generally rooted in microcode. There are no physical changes in the substrate or silicon itself and the stepping, model numbers, etc. are all the same.

The "improvement" might as well chalk down to the node reaching maximum maturity (and as such you now get better behaved chips with higher average silicon quality) and the microcode bugs being largely completely ironed out at this point. From a 13900KS owner's perspective, 14th gen below 14900KS is a downgrade, and the 14900KS doesn't offer me anything at all. Even i7-920's C0 and D0 steppings carried more differences between them than the 13900K and 14900K's "generational" improvement brought, for instance, it was revised silicon, the 14900K isn't.

 

[Space Lynx]

honestly I have my sights set on 8800X3D or 9900X3D, w.e the hell it ends up being called.

I'm in no rush though, as Steam Deck OLED makes me one happy camper.

 

[dgianstefani]

Nah, the 3300X wasn't really all that it was cracked up to be. It just had no additional execution units beyond that single CCX, something that AMD rectified by the 5800X.

This info on Intel is very out of date though and turned out to be inaccurate, Raptor Cove does have physical changes vs. Golden Cove and is an improvement over ADL. Reading back when they thought 14th Gen would be Meteorlake instead of just the laziest rehash this industry has ever seen is pretty funny though.



Ultra just means "current generation microarchitecture" according to Intel. The non-Ultra Core processors feature a "previous generation uArch"; which in the present could be Raptor or Alder-based Core processors. Of course, by rehashing the 13th gen desktop into a totally real 14th gen and keeping the nomenclature, they did everyone an even bigger favor in confusing everyone about their new naming scheme (which sucks). But hey hey wait a minute, it is now Intel Core i9 processor 14900K, no longer something lame like "13th Gen Intel Core i9-13900K" or something like that! Bro!



Nothing I've heard of. Seems anecdotal at best, as far as I've been able to tell, the improvements are generally rooted in microcode. There are no physical changes in the substrate or silicon itself and the stepping, model numbers, etc. are all the same.

The "improvement" might as well chalk down to the node reaching maximum maturity (and as such you now get better behaved chips with higher average silicon quality) and the microcode bugs being largely completely ironed out at this point. From a 13900KS owner's perspective, 14th gen below 14900KS is a downgrade, and the 14900KS doesn't offer me anything at all. Even i7-920's C0 and D0 steppings carried more differences between them than the 13900K and 14900K's "generational" improvement brought, for instance, it was revised silicon, the 14900K isn't.

Anecdotal? It's a 10 C drop under full synthetic load, while clocking higher. 20 C if you're comparing to the KS which clocks the same.

 

[JustBenching]

Anecdotal? It's a 10 C drop under full synthetic load, while clocking higher. 20 C if you're comparing to the KS which clocks the same.

View attachment 337996

Tested both 13 and 14900k on a U12A, I found no difference in temperatures at iso wattages

 

[dgianstefani]

Is it a meaningful contribution to the system's overall idle power consumption relative to the competition, though? From what I can see here, most of these systems don't differ very much in idle power draw from the wall.

AMD Ryzen 5 5600 Review - Fantastic Choice for Upgrades from Older Ryzens

AMD's Ryzen 5 5600 is a great choice for the value-oriented buyer. It actually offers the best price/performance ratio of all Ryzen 5000 processors on the market. Thanks to recent BIOS updates, you can easily install this processor in first-generation Ryzen systems, making it a super affordable...

www.techpowerup.com

AMD Ryzen 7 8700G processor review (Page 4)

In this review, we'll delve into the Ryzen 7 8700G, a $329 processor that comes equipped with the AMD Radeon 760M integrated graphics processor. This release introduces the first 8000 series for the AM5 socket, these processors are essentially Zen4/RDNA3 mobile chips repurposed for desktop use.

www.guru3d.com

Or, do you suppose there was an issue with testing methodologies here?

8700G is monolithic. Now look at the actual Zen 4 parts rather than gimped clock/cache APUs for the media centre market.

All the CCD based parts have idle power issues. Since idle or close to idle is the state processors tend to be at most of the time, it's a problem.

Tested both 13 and 14900k on a U12A, I found no difference in temperatures at iso wattages

TPU and other reviewers noted the same temperature improvements, it's odd but consistent.

 

[Space Lynx]

Anecdotal? It's a 10 C drop under full synthetic load, while clocking higher. 20 C if you're comparing to the KS which clocks the same.

View attachment 337996

holy Celsius batman!

 

[JustBenching]

TPU and other reviewers noted the same temperature improvements, it's odd but consistent.

Ihs bending maybe, if they used a different mobo that didn't have the issue that would explain it. 10 and 20c is an insane difference. I've tried both the stock and a 3rd party ILM, I really didn't notice a thing.

 

[dgianstefani]

Ihs bending maybe, if they used a different mobo that didn't have the issue that would explain it. 10 and 20c is an insane difference. I've tried both the stock and a 3rd party ILM, I really didn't notice a thing.

Read the reviews. Parts used including motherboards are kept consistent.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Anecdotal? It's a 10 C drop under full synthetic load, while clocking higher. 20 C if you're comparing to the KS which clocks the same.

View attachment 337996

I don't think there has been any change in the packaging process or new TIM used. We know substrate and silicon stepping/revision is the same, and SKUs have been graded largely on binning. I do believe that a nice 13900KS or 14900K might show such drastic improvements over a stinker 13900K (definitely not a nice 13900K sample though) but that'd be on operating VID range alone. Even then it might not be exactly 10C, it'd depend a lot on the cooling and ambient temps

I read that Intel is targeting 1.55V VID for the 14900KS's 6.2GHz capable cores. Even with binning that's something so high that all efficiency might just as well be out of the window right there. It will be very toasty...

 

[JustBenching]

Read the reviews. Parts used including motherboards are kept consistent.

I don't doubt the reviews but on the other hand I can't doubt my results either so dunno what's up.

 

[Denver]

The first benchmark you linked has the 14900k beating everything (by a margin) while consuming less power than the 7950x. Expected, but still.

In the benchmarks that the 8700g is beating the 14900k, it's also beating the 7950x. But I guess that's not ouch. Sure.

For example

Spoiler

View attachment 337933

The 14600k is beating the 7950x and the 8600g beats all of those. Does that make sense to you?

No, anyone with eyes can see that you are lying. All the links I posted point to the same page. Don't be lazy.

 

[JustBenching]

No, anyone with eyes can see that you are lying. All the links I posted point to the same page. Don't be lazy.

I'm lying? Click on your link. First benchmark is on selenium, the 14900k is sitting alone on the top while it draws less power than both the 7900x and the 7950x. How am I lying?

Jesus christ man....I give up, the 8700g is faster than the 14900k. Happy?

 

[mb194dc]

Probably not worth waiting for...

The current mid range of both AMD and Intel chips will be fine for 95% of use cases for years to come. Can be small power and performance trade offs depending on what you do.

My concern for the market is people will realise the last few gens chips with 6+ cores will be good for years to come, no reason to upgrade.

Still rocking chips more than 5 years old from both teams and only just thinking about getting something newer.

 

[Dragam1337]

Same for the 3d, 50% more money for 5% more performance, great value there.

Lol, what ? Again you're letting out vague bs. What cpus are you even talking about ? 7800x3d is on average 10% faster in games than 14700k. 7800x3d costs 2900 dkk, 14700k costs 3400 dkk. 7800x3d is 15% faster on average in games than 14600k, and the 14600k costs 2600 dkk. And then both mobo and ram will be more expensive with intel aswell.

So regardless what you are saying is just wrong.

 

[AVATARAT]

Why not?
Reading what I haven't read on this threead (+ TPU news) + small changes in an Excel file. The jump to 40W was for collecting the bonus from a game (see iGPU Usage)
In translation: a processor that competes with Ryzen 7, supports DDR4 (that's what I have) and is much cheaper. In my case: the price of 13500+MoBo= only 7700X. The memories were recovered from the old combo.
Don't forget: I love the E-core "waste".
View attachment 337980

It's very wrong to calculate how efficient is one CPU based on HWinfo.
Get one Wattmeter and check for 1 week or something how much electricity will use your whole system (the monitor too), because your CPU does not work alone.
Yes, I can agree that Intel can be very efficient but is the whole system, too?

 

[Dragam1337]

Why not?
Reading what I haven't read on this threead (+ TPU news) + small changes in an Excel file. The jump to 40W was for collecting the bonus from a game (see iGPU Usage)
In translation: a processor that competes with Ryzen 7, supports DDR4 (that's what I have) and is much cheaper. In my case: the price of 13500+MoBo= only 7700X. The memories were recovered from the old combo.
Don't forget: I love the E-core "waste".
View attachment 337980

Yeah, when you want to make a point, compare against the worst value product from the competition /facepalm

That said, you claim that the 13500 is at the same performance level as the 7700x, which simply isn't true - the 7700x is a fair bit faster in games.

But the real comparison would have been the 7600x - it's just as fast as the 7700x in games, and costs the same as your 13500...

Edit : correction - the 7600x is 1800 dkk, and the 13500 is 2000 dkk, so the 13500 is actually more expensive...

 

[BoggledBeagle]

Are you kidding with that comparison? Someone who is looking to buy a 7800x3D is looking to buy the best gaming cpu. You always get better value with lower tier products. But even then the 14600k is hardly cheaper than the 7800x3d... only 10% without the current discount.

Faster than what in what ? And lol 120w is still twice as much as the 7800x3d uses...

7800X3D is slow compared to 14600K. Slow as a lazy snail after lunch. It is also boiling under its shell. It is a pre-cooked snail.

 

[pressing on]

Ultra just means "current generation microarchitecture" according to Intel. The non-Ultra Core processors feature a "previous generation uArch"; which in the present could be Raptor or Alder-based Core processors.

That's not what Intel say at all. What they do say is that Ultra includes two core microarchitecture (P + E cores), improved Intel thread director, AI Boost/NPU and Intel Arc GPU or iGPU including AV1 encode/decode.

 

[Dr. Dro]

That's not what Intel say at all. What they do say is that Ultra includes two core microarchitecture (P + E cores), improved Intel thread director, AI Boost/NPU and Intel Arc GPU or iGPU including AV1 encode/decode.

Confused about Core Ultra? We were too, so we asked Intel | Digital Trends

It's the start of the Core Ultra era for Intel. What does that mean? We have all of the specifics for when you go to buy your next laptop.

www.digitaltrends.com

There’s another factor at play here — the Core and Core Ultra naming. Intel is using Core Ultra on processors using its latest architecture. The Core branding is reserved for “legacy” architectures.

It isn't necessarily that the feature set here is what defines Ultra, but rather you describe the things that Meteor Lake as an architecture bring to the table. The P+E/thread director 2.0 thing is already present in RPL, with the NPU and Arc GPU being exclusive to MTL

 

[JustBenching]

Lol, what ? Again you're letting out vague bs. What cpus are you even talking about ? 7800x3d is on average 10% faster in games than 14700k. 7800x3d costs 2900 dkk, 14700k costs 3400 dkk. 7800x3d is 15% faster on average in games than 14600k, and the 14600k costs 2600 dkk. And then both mobo and ram will be more expensive with intel aswell.

So regardless what you are saying is just wrong.

I'm comparing the 13600kf to the 7800x 3d. According to this very website the 3d is 10% faster at 1080p with a 4090, and pretty much identical in higher resolutions. Also the i5 is faster in every other task.

The 3d was for the most part at 420 to 450 euros while the 13600kf was usually at or below 300. You ignored the obvious value and bought the 3d instead, yet here you are talking about the value of the 7600x. Okay...