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Is Intel going to deliver a processor/chipset worth waiting for?

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Comet Lake has much lower memory and core latency than any Zen chip, including Zen 3. The actual IPC is similar to Zen 3, little weaker, as its still just tweaked Skylake, but the frequency advantage of Comet Lake paired with faster memory support (peak DDR4, e.g. B die at 4133 MT) makes it better at latency sensitive gaming, e.g. Esports games, and competitive for casual gaming. The 5900X is also, along with the 5600 series, the worst of Zen 3 lineup for gaming, besides the quad cores and APU chips, which don't really count as they aren't normal chips.

5800X/5950X is slower than Comet Lake for gaming, even at stock, but the 5800X3D is faster stock vs stock, thing is, Comet Lake, just like ADL/RPL, can be tuned to get much better performance than stock, whereas Zen chips can't really do much besides RAM tuning, and that's frequency limited at around 4000 MT, but more likely 3800 MT, 6200 for Zen 4 unless you desync, which is slower, whereas RPL can do 8200 MT.

Now, there's probably someone ready to jump on me because in TPU testing 5950X and 5900X both test faster than 5800X, and all three are "faster" than 10900K, however that was tested with 3200 MT memory, which is on the slow side for Comet Lake, and also at stock timings.

Zen 3 can't really be tuned for better gaming performance, you can overclock it all core, but this will be slower in gaming vs stock with PBO, as I said, besides some RAM tuning. The best Zen 3 part for gaming, 5800X3D, barely benefits from RAM tuning at all, so...

Comet Lake however, can be overclocked to get better gaming performance than stock, and the memory support is much, much better than Zen 3. Comparing memory latency with Zen, it can be low 40 ns vs around 60 ns for Zen.

Remember that average FPS doesn't matter as much as FPS consistency, hence why the X3D chips or Intel CPUs paired with very fast, tuned memory give better gaming experiences than otherwise "faster" CPUs in a simple FPS chart.

I used to own both a 5700X and then a 5950X, and didn't really enjoy them for gaming, I thought the frequency advantage over the single CCD part would matter, but it didn't, and stutters were common for both those chips. 5800X3D was a whole other story.

The monolithic 10 core Intel architecture was really great for low latency, especially because you could lock all the cores at a high frequency, and pair the CPU with mature and tight timings DDR4, like high end B die, this reflects in how responsive and consistent competitive games feel with that series compared to Zen 3.


It's slightly better due to hardware security mitigations instead of software ones, and a better process, some minor core improvements, but it's still just tweaked Skylake. ADL and RPL have massively improved IPC and also much larger per core cache,

Is the PCH hub being moved from CPU to motherboard on 12th and 13th Gen and I assume 14th Gen as well any concern or hurt any performance in anyway?

 

dgianstefani

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Is the PCH hub being moved from CPU to motherboard on 12th and 13th Gen and I assume 14th Gen as well any concern or hurt any performance in anyway?

I don't know.

I doubt it, considering the performance those platforms offer.
 
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If the processors of the future do not know how to cook, they are for nothing. According to the TPU survey, 60% voted "only for games" and now they want supercomputers.
Gentlemen, there is enough computing power available now for anything a home user dreams of. In fact, if someone jokingly disables 25% of your cores, you will need a long time to notice the "terrorist action". Completely by chance, thanks to a monitoring software or running a benchmark.
"WTF, how did I survive until now?!"

It seems that many of you did not catch the times when you needed a day to archive 1GB of data with the most powerful cpu of the moment. In the Stone Age of computers, in the documentaries of those times, everyone wondered if they would ever be able to generate animated graphics. Now, anyone can create a video of Biden dancing the Cossack, we have 4 cameras on a smartphone (LOL), 4K in 6" (LOL LOL LOL) and a humanity that has become totally cretinized.
 
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Nah, having fun ruining hopes and dreams. The "fastest gaming CPU" gets schooled by a 3gen old stock Intel. And let's not even touch high population density or ocing. Won't be pretty :D
Intel had the equivalent opportunity to put a man or woman on the moon or Mars, possibly all four , yet, it decided something else in terms of IP ,chips , what have you in the branch. [God save the King(gov) to "bail us out" so we can fat stack bonus ourselves and dividends.]

Intel almost got away with trying to sell single core (celeron) cpus in the late 2010s for close to 4 digit dollar sums: ya want more chache- an arm, ya want more cores- a leg , ya want more cores and cache-kidney spline liver arm and leg(toss in a head, would you?).

Intel is almost a joke of a company ,viewed from another point(must pay bonuses now, also pay investor ,but fk next year, we are just marketing "ruling tech")2010s.
 
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LGA 1851 being so close to release but months away from forcing sales on past gens continues to bother me.

Clearly the selling point is that PCIe will suddenly be able to accommodate GPU and a SSD without going down to 8x. At this point I won't blink if we see SLI make a return with 5 slot cards offered in opposing fan combinations that take on a Wonder Twins ring power when their backplates touch.
 
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I don't know.

I doubt it, considering the performance those platforms offer.
Hi,
Yeah the higher core and memory frequencies are masking the higher quad channel latency a lot still lower than amd quad channel is though.
 
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LGA 1851 being so close to release but months away from forcing sales on past gens continues to bother me.
In Alder and raptor lake there are 4 PCIE 4.0 for NVMe from the CPU. some motherboards split the CPU lanes for nvme but we can avoid those.
SLI is gone for good.

The main selling point is IPC as always. is there really anything else, thunderbolt usb pcie who cares. yeah 15GB/s on just one NVMe, great. thank you intel.
Now if 20A is found only in the 6 p-Cores U5 variant and is monolithic since only mobile are said to use tiles from TSMC, nothing else has tiles or they aren't made by TSMC or is monolithic.
logically U7,U9 models are stuck on intel 7 still, just like Rocket lake was.
 
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In Alder and raptor lake there are 4 PCIE 4.0 for NVMe from the CPU. some motherboards split the CPU lanes for nvme but we can avoid those.
SLI is gone for good.

The main selling point is IPC as always. is there really anything else, thunderbolt usb pcie who cares. yeah 15GB/s on just one NVMe, great. thank you intel.
Now if 20A is found only in the 6 p-Cores U5 variant and is monolithic since only mobile are said to use tiles from TSMC, nothing else has tiles or they aren't made by TSMC or is monolithic.
logically U7,U9 models are stuck on intel 7 still, just like Rocket lake was.


Well yeah Intel does have 4 Gen 4 lanes for an NVME drive direct to CPU without affecting any of the GPU 16 lanes. AMD on other hand has 24 Gen 5 lanes so you can use 2 Gen 5 NVME SSDs without touching GPU direct to CPU.

Well Gen 5 not that important but like to have 2 NVME SSDS direct to CPU without touching the dedicated 16 GPU lanes.

If only Intel just had 4 more Gen 4 lanes direct to CPU I could get to NVME drives direct to CPU.

Instead Intel has 16 Gen 5 and 4 Gen 4. How about 8 Gen 4 and 16 Gen 5? Cause it does not matter which Gen GPU uses or NVME uses or which Gen it is capable of. If you use those lanes even at Gen 3 or lower, it takes them up and forces the others to run at half speed on any platform thus on Intel knocks GPU lanes down to 8 if 2 NVME direct to CPU regardless of generation. You can have 2 NVME on Zen 4 regardless of Gen without knocking down the 16 GPU lanes.

Well maybe if NVIDIA made RTX 4090s Gen 5, it would not matter as going to to 8 Gen 5 would be same as 16 Gen 4, but they are at 16 Gen 4 so it would knock it down to 8 Gen 4 which may hurt some.
 
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Yes, Gen 5 lanes and thus manage to be reasonably up to date on capability. Next OS drive and GPU will probably be gen 5's. DDR5 in LGA 1851 will amazingly have higher speeds and attain most of them claimed to be possible on a given mobo as well.

The main selling point is IPC as always. is there really anything else, thunderbolt usb pcie who cares. yeah 15GB/s on just one NVMe, great. thank you intel.

Quite true. They really make you want to run in the opposite direction with features like another USB variant unlikely to have shelf life better than canned goods. This is why I attached chipset to the title.

Laughably I've used my current mobo D-SUB numerous times and never plugged a single type C connector into the board. Tiny little hole to find bent over a cramped dimly lit space without needing phone for internet.
 
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Yes, Gen 5 lanes and thus manage to be reasonably up to date on capability. Next OS drive and GPU will probably be gen 5's. DDR5 in LGA 1851 will amazingly have higher speeds and attain most of them claimed to be possible on a given mobo as well.



Quite true. They really make you want to run in the opposite direction with features like another USB variant unlikely to have shelf life better than canned goods. This is why I attached chipset to the title.

Laughably I've used my current mobo D-SUB numerous times and never plugged a single type C connector into the board. Tiny little hole to find bent over a cramped dimly lit space without needing phone for internet.

Didn't realise boards still came with D-SUB

I have used my F and R C ports a few times, for an external NVME caddy and my phone, the rear ones (have 2) are hard to see though. I still use a rear to my USB DAC.

Enjoyed my ADL/Z690 setup, so will be interested to see what 1851 brings apart from more cost.
 

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Is Intel going to deliver a processor/chipset worth waiting for?

Short answer - No.

Intel had a plan for a brand new x86-S micro-architecture with the legacy instructions/support cut away. Has it released yet anything even remotely resembling that plan?

Intel today is nothing special, better don't wait and instead save your troubles - use an AMD Ryzen.
 
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Intel today is nothing special, better don't wait and instead save your troubles - use an AMD Ryzen.
If you want to save troubles - that means building a system with Intel CPU, on a mature platform, with no expected problems with RAM, stability, etc.

There is no point in buying a first gen boards and first gen CPUs for AM5 platform, when the next generation is on the horizon. First gen stuff is always expected to have dome children diseases.

So there are three ways to go, if you want to save troubles:

1) get an Intel system now

2) wait until the next gen AMD products - motherboards and CPUs are proven reliable

3) wait until the next gen Intel products - motherboards and CPUs are proven reliable


And of course, next gen AMD products can be better and more TROUBLE FREE than next gen Intel products.
 
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If you use those lanes even at Gen 3 or lower, it takes them up and forces the others to run at half speed on any platform thus on Intel knocks GPU lanes down to 8 if 2 NVME direct to CPU regardless of generation.
My motherboard has one nvme dedicated to the processor and three others controlled by the chipset.
1. Can you show me the motherboard model that has two nvme directly connected to the processor?
2. In which scenario do you simultaneously use two or more NVMEs at the maximum speed allowed by the bus?

P.S. the nvme bus works independently of the graphics card bus.
 
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If you want to save troubles - that means building a system with Intel CPU, on a mature platform, with no expected problems with RAM, stability, etc.

There is no point in buying a first gen boards and first gen CPUs for AM5 platform, when the next generation is on the horizon. First gen stuff is always expected to have some children diseases.
Growing pains and teething issues but it's going to bite just like alder lake still going strong.
 
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Growing pains and teething issues but it's going to bite just like alder lake still going strong.

Tbh, i bought alder which was first gen LGA1700 and i have had no problems with it at all. I probably could have run it with the release bios, but have updated it numerous times, not because it was need, but because i like to, my board was not the cheapest nor the most expensive at the time(£400)

I would probably risk LGA1851 first gen, but not AM5.
 
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Short answer - No.

Intel had a plan for a brand new x86-S micro-architecture with the legacy instructions/support cut away. Has it released yet anything even remotely resembling that plan?

Intel today is nothing special, better don't wait and instead save your troubles - use an AMD Ryzen.

I'll keep my i9-13900KS, thanks.
 
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I would probably risk LGA1851 first gen, but not AM5.
There is no risk in AM5 at this point. Plenty of time has passed for teething issues to be sorted out. Just update your BIOS and you're good to go.
 
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The problem I have with AM5 is that it isn't interesting. Never mind the fact that a jump from 3000 series AM4 to literally anything AM5 sounds insane or just too soon/$$$ but a number of things have happened on AM4 (that were interesting to me) that haven't happened on AM5 just yet.

AM4 is pretty much done. It still gets scrap offerings to clear abundance materials, even at the risk of competing with existing shelf products but good. AM4, married to DDR4, has experienced that magical Samsung B-die and Micron E-die moment that has increased enjoyment and stability of these products and has grabbed the attention of CPU overclockers that were new to memory overclocking. AMD chips, especially the Ryzen memory controller REALLY likes high speed memory and high memory bandwidth. That jump from "oh this is kind of meh" to "wow I can do WHAT with this memory" hasn't happened on DDR5 and still has a long way to go before it happens. Any time buildzoid spins up a stream and goes BRRR with Need for Speed or whatever, I'm just waiting for the day he's excited about memory again. Hasn't happened since my Ballistix AES kit.

The other thing about AM5 is that the boards are stupid and I hate them. Even if I skipped AM4, I would most likely be on AM3+ and avoiding the current Ryzen lineup just because I can't agree on a well featured or minmaxed board at a good price. The entire reason I have a X570 TUF right now is because of the price. I understand that I should probably be looking at workstation boards but those don't interest me.

Before I build another AMD system it should have enough decent features from the board alone, exactly where they're desired:
Mini-ITX or SFF that is arranged M.2, g4x16, M.2 (reverse)
Mini-DTX arranged Floating Expansion, g4x16, open g4x4
Micro-ATX arranged M.2, g4x16, dual M.2, open g4x2

My full size ATX board is loaded as M.2, g4x16, blank, g4x1 (why are you here?), g4x4, shielded M.2, g4x1.
Other than the weird juggling of NVME vs SATA connections and shutting off an entire PCI-E slot to do it, this is fine....We really need to go back to an era of PnP.

The entire issue that I have with this arrangement is dealing with the chipset and more to the point its cooling device plotted exactly where I don't want it. Unless it's AM3+ or older, it's always gonna be in a dumb place that isn't friendly to LARGE coprocessors or itself. It's also a nightmare for water cooling and I prefer to keep everything under 40℃.

I like the way PCI-E x1 slots are being arranged on some boards as open slot. I'll typically pick Asus boards over Gigglebyte any day of the week, especially as an entry (read: hazing) to a newer socket but then I look at something like the B650 Prime and just.....Why? (´・ω・`) Why are you like this?
 
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