12VHPWR Connector Said to be Replaced by 12V-2x6 Connector

[Zforgetaboutit]

I see what you mean. I just looked up a wire gauge explainer. Thanks.

How about, for practical use, a doubling of the cross-sectional area of the current GPU wire cores.

Current (A) = 600 W / 12 V = 50 A.
6 (incoming power) pins -> 50 A / 6 = ~9 A per pin.

Doubling, ~18 A per pin, the cable could be 14 gauge (according to my understanding of the explainer). Better than 10 gauge, and now needs only 3 (x 2) pins.

Still too stiff? I have no sense of this. The next time I go to Home Depot I hope to check it out.

I'm getting ahead of myself - the explainer shows different temperate ranges available per gauge. I don't know the status quo. That could require a thicker gauge than 14.

 

[LabRat 891]

I wrote to propose using the same mechanical attributes, not voltage/current.

E.g. Use a bigger connector with 2-3 pins, PCB-suitable voltage & current, and thicker flexible cable like my toaster.

They exist.
It's called the XT60 and XT90. (There's others as well)
Commonly used on Drone aircraft, R/C cars, etc.

BTW, before 'things happened behind the scenes' 8-Pin EPS *was* slated to replace PCI-e 8-pin; instead of this 12VHPWR(etc.)

Highly recommended reading, on the topic:

NVIDIA’s connector story: EPS vs. 12VHPWR Connector - Unfortunately, good doesn’t always win, but evil wins more and more often (insights) | igor´sLAB

After numerous articles, explanations, and follow-up tests, today we’re taking a different approach. I have three intriguing topics for you: the possible origin story of the 12VHPWR connector…

www.igorslab.de

 

[Assimilator]

At 12V, the American plug would not support up to 600W.

It's the current that matters. Not the voltage. At 1600W, 110V is only 14A. The 12VHPWR supports 50A.

Now, that said, if your wires and terminals were 10g, your idea would work. But this would make for an incredibly unweildly cable.

Completely unrelated @jonnyGURU , but why is Corsair trying to patent the SHIFT PSU concept instead of providing it to Intel and thus other PSU manufacturers? And why are the SHIFT PSUs themselves so expensive compared to their standard ATX brethren?

 

[Chrispy_]

Completely unrelated @jonnyGURU , but why is Corsair trying to patent the SHIFT PSU concept instead of providing it to Intel and thus other PSU manufacturers? And why are the SHIFT PSUs themselves so expensive compared to their standard ATX brethren?

Despite it being convenient for a few select cases, I don't think SHIFT is going to catch on because so few case manufacturers actually want to waste any more space than necessary for cable management behind the motherboard tray. SHIFT PSUs require a good couple of inches to get the bend radius of the thicker cables accounted for before the side panel goes on. It really only makes sense in those niche builds that use unusual layouts - either SFF builds taking advantage of a full-ATX PSU. If the case is big enough to have 2 inches of clearance behind the motherboard, it's extremely unlikely that they're cramped enough to make regular PSUs an issue.

For most people, in most cases, SHIFT is a solution looking for a problem. For the 1% of people who are struggling to get a really tight build to work because of cable management, it might be a good solution.

As for pricing, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Both street pricing and corsair.com/uk official website show the SHIFT models actually cheaper than the regular models, and both of them have the same MSRP, but only the SHIFT models are discounted on Corsair's own website. The discounts are entirely unsurprising since so few cases are actually compatible with SHIFT that I suspect inventory turnover is much slower and leads to a lot more unsold stock taking up valuable shelf space.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Wonder how acer did this on my laptop with 4060

 

[Assimilator]

Despite it being convenient for a few select cases, I don't think SHIFT is going to catch on because so few case manufacturers actually want to waste any more space than necessary for cable management behind the motherboard tray. SHIFT PSUs require a good couple of inches to get the bend radius of the thicker cables accounted for before the side panel goes on. It really only makes sense in those niche builds that use unusual layouts - either SFF builds taking advantage of a full-ATX PSU. If the case is big enough to have 2 inches of clearance behind the motherboard, it's extremely unlikely that they're cramped enough to make regular PSUs an issue.

If you have an ATX chassis that isn't the cheapest in China, with a bottom-mounted PSU that allows for the PSU to be mounted with the fan facing downwards (with or without a PSU shroud), I'm willing to bet that a SHIFT unit will fit. Firstly Corsair uses physically smaller PSU-side connectors than other units, which makes them shallower so they take up less space; secondly they use flexible silicon ribbon cabling, as opposed to standard bulky and rigid sleeving, so the cables are far easier to route. If your chassis is able to offer 5cm between the edge of the PSU and the right-hand case panel (the one behind the motherboard) then you should have no problem fitting a SHIFT unit.

For most people, in most cases, SHIFT is a solution looking for a problem.

I would argue that it's an attempted solution to the problem that time has moved on from the ATX form factor. ATX was created back when we didn't have discrete add-in cards and motherboards that require supplemental power - there was literally a single cable from the PSU to the board, and a couple to floppy and hard drives, and that was it; a PSU could get away with half a dozen connectors. Today an entry-level PSU will easily offer a full dozen, and the higher-wattage units can offer up to double that.

ATX also never anticipated that people wouldn't want their systems to be overrun by a tangled mess of cables, hence why chassis designers predominantly moved the PSU to the floor to allow for hiding these. We also got PSU shrouds to further hide cable spaghetti, and PSUs with cables that can be added and detached as needed for the same purpose. The end result is that a modular ATX PSU, on the floor of a chassis, under a PSU shroud, is really difficult to get to if you're trying to add or remove cables; SHIFT attempts to offer a solution to that very real problem. It may not be a problem for many, and it may not be a problem very often, but it is most definitely a problem.

As for pricing, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Both street pricing and corsair.com/uk official website show the SHIFT models actually cheaper than the regular models, and both of them have the same MSRP, but only the SHIFT models are discounted on Corsair's own website. The discounts are entirely unsurprising since so few cases are actually compatible with SHIFT that I suspect inventory turnover is much slower and leads to a lot more unsold stock taking up valuable shelf space.

All the SHIFT models are showing as OOS for me on Corsair's website. As for pricing, I did pick up the 850W model for a big discount on Black Friday, but the RM series got bigger discounts (for example the SHIFT 850W cost me £120 while the RMe 850W dropped to £80 at one point IIRC).

 

[Chrispy_]

If you have an ATX chassis that isn't the cheapest in China, with a bottom-mounted PSU that allows for the PSU to be mounted with the fan facing downwards (with or without a PSU shroud), I'm willing to bet that a SHIFT unit will fit. Firstly Corsair uses physically smaller PSU-side connectors than other units, which makes them shallower so they take up less space; secondly they use flexible silicon ribbon cabling, as opposed to standard bulky and rigid sleeving, so the cables are far easier to route. If your chassis is able to offer 5cm between the edge of the PSU and the right-hand case panel (the one behind the motherboard) then you should have no problem fitting a SHIFT unit.

Yeah, it needs two inches of side clearance for the cables - I mentioned that already - but that's a lot fewer cases than you probably think it is. OCUK probably have the largest selection of major-brand cases on sale in the UK and maybe 20-30% of the 211 mid-tower, standard ATX cases will possibly accommodate a SHIFT PSU. Within the MicroATX, mITX, Cube, SFF, and other categories (they have 722 cases listed in total) that overall comptatibility of sub-10% demographic of cases that fit a SHIFT PSU is a pretty negligible target audience, especially when almost all of those compatible cases are so big and easy to work on that SHIFT PSU layouts add very little to the build experience, but do add compatibility concerns for that PSU if the build is moved to another case in the future.

Of the 10 most recent TPU case reviews, SHIFT is 100% incompatible with four of them, because they don't use an open basement with side access, so there's other stuff or a solid partition next to the SHIFT side of the PSU. Of the six remaining "traditional" basement PSU partition cases reviewed, only four of them are wide enough to accommodate the 50mm cable radius behind the PSU, and these are all new "MAXI" ATX sized cases that sprung up this (RTX 4090) generation and have enough room for 140mm cooling fans above the IO shield because of the super-sized 4090FE and its need for an even wider case to get the 12V HPWR connector into the top edge of the card with it's own stupid bend-radius requirements (otherwise you get melting connectors!). That size/type of case is a very new addition to the case market in general, and the industry has already started to correct it by marketing "smaller" high-end GPUs as a positive feature, and the proliferation of official and third-party right-angle HPWR connectors to reduce the need for 2" of wasted case width.

Don't get me wrong, when SHIFT works, it's a nice-to-have feature and I don't object to it being on the market at all as an additional choice. I'm just being a realist by saying that it's unlikely the wider case market will change to accomodate SHIFT layouts so it's going to remain a niche feature for a few specific scenarios. If anything, the latest slew of cases like the Hyte and it's copycats seem to be moving towards isolating the PSU entirely behind the motherboard in a portrait configuration (011D-style) which usually work worse with SHIFT PSUs than regular PSUs.

All the SHIFT models are showing as OOS for me on Corsair's website. As for pricing, I did pick up the 850W model for a big discount on Black Friday, but the RM series got bigger discounts (for example the SHIFT 850W cost me £120 while the RMe 850W dropped to £80 at one point IIRC).

You're comparing apples to oranges: The cheaper 850e is not the same class of PSU as the SHIFT, which is a rotated RM850X. The RMX series is a more expensive, premium PSU with better capacitors, cooling, PCB design, and better performance to go with the additional cost.

 

[trsskater63]

"to make sure a proper contact is made before higher power outputs can be requested by the GPU"

Keep dreaming though. Same size, inferior quality. Its fine for anything below a 4090, I would be inclined to agree. But if you run GPUs north of 300W? Definitely the current one isn't fine. If it was fine, we'd have kept 12VHPWR. Stop living in denial. In this commercial world this is the biggest confirmation of reality you will get short of them actually admitting they fucked up, which no company ever does.

Part of the reason for the change is to insure proper connection is made. What is melting people's graphics cards isn't the fact that the connector can't handle it. Other wise no one with a 4090 would be able to use their graphics card and that's not true. I have a Asus Strix 4090 OC and I have had no problems. Even cable mod claims their issue is there angled adapter comes loose and over heats. And companies do claim they mess up. That's why you get recalls.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Part of the reason for the change is to insure proper connection is made. What is melting people's graphics cards isn't the fact that the connector can't handle it. Other wise no one with a 4090 would be able to use their graphics card and that's not true. I have a Asus Strix 4090 OC and I have had no problems. Even cable mod claims their issue is there angled adapter comes loose and over heats. And companies do claim they mess up. That's why you get recalls.

Yep. The 90° and 180° PCB adapters "walk out" after so many thermal cycles. Properly made cables don't have this issue.

 

[Vayra86]

Part of the reason for the change is to insure proper connection is made. What is melting people's graphics cards isn't the fact that the connector can't handle it. Other wise no one with a 4090 would be able to use their graphics card and that's not true. I have a Asus Strix 4090 OC and I have had no problems. Even cable mod claims their issue is there angled adapter comes loose and over heats. And companies do claim they mess up. That's why you get recalls.

Irrelevant unless we have 100% fail safe manufacturing with no defects in those connectors, which isn't the case and won't be the case ever.

Its plastic (and pretty cheap plastic, too). It wears, it tears, it bends, its part of the material's properties. So you need a connector with greater tolerances = a bigger one. Even with a better connection you're looking at more power through less cable/metal.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Irrelevant unless we have 100% fail safe manufacturing with no defects in those connectors, which isn't the case and won't be the case ever.

Its plastic (and pretty cheap plastic, too). It wears, it tears, it bends, its part of the material's properties. So you need a connector with greater tolerances = a bigger one. Even with a better connection you're looking at more power through less cable/metal.

Precisely. On paper and in practice, the design doesn't make sense and the only advantage is the smaller footprint; which is inconducive to high power.

Compare the 12VHPWR with Mini-Fit HCS (what's typically used for 6-pin and 8-pin PCIe).

16g for both. Check.

One 12VHPWR gives you twelve conductors, two 6-pin PCIe give you twelve conductors. Check.

12VHPWR 3.0mm terminals are rated at 9.5A each in a 2x6 configuration. Mini-Fit HCS 4.2mm terminals are rated at 10A each in a 2x3 configuration. Uh oh... Wheels are starting to come off the bus.

12VHPWR footprint is 18.85mm x 8.45mm. 6-pin PCIe has a footprint of 13.8 x 10.2mm EACH.

So given everything we know.... 12VHPWR is technically no better at delivering 600W of power than two 6-pin PCIe connectors. ;-)

 

[londiste]

Isn't 6-pin PCIe technically supposed to have 2 conductors and 8-pin to have 3? In practice of course the third tends to mostly get used on 6-pin as well.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Isn't 6-pin PCIe technically supposed to have 2 conductors and 8-pin to have 3? In practice of course the third tends to mostly get used on 6-pin as well.

6-pin has one sense pin. 8-pin has two. But since they're grounded, it's ostensibly a conductor.