FID when c-state is enabled

[paxtax]

Windows11 10900k, z490tomahawk, no overclocking, voltage etc. are default (auto).
The power plan is high performance.
BIOS C-State is enabled, C-StateLimit is auto.
I have not installed any software that has many problems, such as MSI Center.

Hwinfo, Rivatuner, etc. always report 4900mhz while gaming.
However, when some games are started, the ThrottleStop FID is greatly disturbed.
Games locked with FID49: PSO2NGS, SO6(Steam), Persona 5 Strikers
Games where FID is disturbed: FFXIV, SO4 (Steam)

Take FFXIV as an example with the image of ThrottleStop.
In this test, C-State is stopped using ThrottleStop in step ③.

① If the game is not running + C-State on
Varies between 49～53.

② If the game is running + C-State on
It constantly fluctuates below 49, and in severe cases, it may even display numbers like 33.
Micro stutters occur in the game.

③ If the game is running + C-State off
Locked at 49.
There are no micro stutters and everything is normal.


If you turn off C-State, TVB will stop working completely.
Therefore, turn off C-State in the high performance plan with ThrottleStop,
I am using the FullThrottle app to automatically switch to the high performance plan while gaming and the balanced plan at other times.

I think ThrottleStop's FID is correct based on conditions ② and ③, but is this a C-State specification?

I don't think it's related, but as you can see in the image, SST is disabled.
SST is enabled on this board in Windows 10, but it is not enabled in Windows 11 even if it is explicitly specified in the BIOS.
(W10 Hwinfo SST-Green, W11 Hwinfo SST-Red)

 

[unclewebb]

I think ThrottleStop's FID is correct

ThrottleStop uses high performance monitoring timers and the Intel recommended monitoring method. It has the ability to track slight changes to the CPU multiplier. No other monitoring software comes close to this level of accuracy.

Turn on the ThrottleStop Log File option before playing a game. Attach a ThrottleStop log file if you have any questions. Post screenshots of the FIVR and TPL windows. How a CPU is setup by the BIOS can vary significantly depending on the motherboard manufacturer and the BIOS version you are using.

If you turn off C-State, TVB will stop working completely.

The core C states need to be enabled so Intel Turbo Boost works correctly. If you disable the C states, a 10900K will be limited to the 49 multiplier at default settings.

If you want higher than that when the C states are disabled, press the All Core 50 or 51 button in ThrottleStop. I use an All Core 50 multiplier for my similar 10850K. 5000 MHz is a very comfortable speed for these CPUs to run at. You can lower the voltage at this speed and run very cool and quiet.

There is no need to use the Balanced power plan when the C states are enabled. I prefer running a fixed speed, even when idle. Inactive cores in C7 are already idle at 0 MHz because they are disconnected from the internal clock. Slowing the CPU down by using the Balanced power plan accomplishes next to nothing.

When the Thermal Velocity Boost box is checked in the ThrottleStop FIVR window, that tells the CPU to throttle 100 MHz when it reaches approximately 70°C. There is no legit reason to throttle the CPU at this low temperature. It is always best to clear the Thermal Velocity Boost box so the CPU can run at its full rated speed. I guess the Intel marketing department did not think Thermal Velocity Throttling sounded very good so they called it Thermal Velocity Boost instead.

SST is disabled

Windows 11 should enable Speed Shift Technology automatically. When that is not working correctly, you can open the TPL window and check the Speed Shift box to enable SST. That should show up immediately on the main screen of ThrottleStop. Some items in HWiNFO do not update in real time so you might need to restart HWiNFO before it updates the Speed Shift status. There is no way to disable Speed Shift while in Windows after it has been enabled. You will need to reboot to reset the CPU if you want to disable SST.

I seem to get a more consistent idle multiplier when the 3 C state Demotion options are not checked and the 3 UnDemotion options are checked. I am not sure if this would make any difference to the micro stutter issues you have when the C states are enabled.

There are no micro stutters and everything is normal.

Disabling the core C states reduces latency. This seems best for smooth game play. A fixed and consistent CPU speed also helps.

Hopefully my wall of text will help explain some of the questions you had. I love how my 10850K runs after a few ThrottleStop tweaks. All of Intel's new CPUs that run Cinebench at 100°C are not for me. Core temps under 70°C while running Cinebench at 4900 MHz (10900K default speed) is not that bad.

 

[paxtax]

ThrottleStop uses high performance monitoring timers and the Intel recommended monitoring method. It has the ability to track slight changes to the CPU multiplier. No other monitoring software comes close to this level of accuracy.

Turn on the ThrottleStop Log File option before playing a game. Attach a ThrottleStop log file if you have any questions. Post screenshots of the FIVR and TPL windows. How a CPU is setup by the BIOS can vary significantly depending on the motherboard manufacturer and the BIOS version you are using.

This is the log for case ② of the first post.
I have uploaded FIVR and TPL.

The board is Z490 Tomahawak BIOS:7C80v17
Not the latest BIOS.
However, updating the BIOS on this board will completely break it if you are unlucky, like a game of Russian roulette.

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/warning-z490-boards-problem-with-recent-bios-updates.367575/

I can't update the BIOS on this board because the risk is too great.

The core C states need to be enabled so Intel Turbo Boost works correctly. If you disable the C states, a 10900K will be limited to the 49 multiplier at default settings.

If you want higher than that when the C states are disabled, press the All Core 50 or 51 button in ThrottleStop. I use an All Core 50 multiplier for my similar 10850K. 5000 MHz is a very comfortable speed for these CPUs to run at. You can lower the voltage at this speed and run very cool and quiet.

There is no need to use the Balanced power plan when the C states are enabled. I prefer running a fixed speed, even when idle. Inactive cores in C7 are already idle at 0 MHz because they are disconnected from the internal clock. Slowing the CPU down by using the Balanced power plan accomplishes next to nothing.

When the Thermal Velocity Boost box is checked in the ThrottleStop FIVR window, that tells the CPU to throttle 100 MHz when it reaches approximately 70°C. There is no legit reason to throttle the CPU at this low temperature. It is always best to clear the Thermal Velocity Boost box so the CPU can run at its full rated speed. I guess the Intel marketing department did not think Thermal Velocity Throttling sounded very good so they called it Thermal Velocity Boost instead.

I understand these specs.
I have tried overclocking before.
If you leave the voltage as automatic and set all cores to 50/51, the OS will start, but if you operate it for a while, the power will turn off and restart.
Probably the auto voltage above 50 is not working well.
It seems like a very bad CPU. (Normally around 1.28v at 5.1G)
I think this is a big loser in the silicon lottery.
All core 51/ring 47, fixed voltage 1.34v LLC4 is stable, but the heat is much higher than the default, and there is no change in the game, so I stopped using it.
With default auto, voltage offset can only go up to -0.040.
An error occurs in the throttle stop benchmark at -0.045.

I have tried the C7 during the aforementioned overclocking.
Setting the C-State Limit to C7 in the BIOS causes all cores to randomly drop to 800mhz momentarily during gaming.
Sometimes it's Core0, sometimes it's Core7, sometimes it's Core5, and so on.
Of course, this caused lag in the game.

Even in the summer, the temperature never rises above 70 degrees while gaming, but as you pointed out, I turned off Thermal Velocity Clipping in the BIOS.

Windows 11 should enable Speed Shift Technology automatically. When that is not working correctly, you can open the TPL window and check the Speed Shift box to enable SST. That should show up immediately on the main screen of ThrottleStop. Some items in HWiNFO do not update in real time so you might need to restart HWiNFO before it updates the Speed Shift status. There is no way to disable Speed Shift while in Windows after it has been enabled. You will need to reboot to reset the CPU if you want to disable SST.

I seem to get a more consistent idle multiplier when the 3 C state Demotion options are not checked and the 3 UnDemotion options are checked. I am not sure if this would make any difference to the micro stutter issues you have when the C states are enabled.

When "C1 Demotion" is disabled with C-State on, the FID disturbance no longer occurs.
However, doing this caused the game to constantly lag and the FPS dropped significantly.
I tried several combinations of checkboxes here, but this problem always occurs when I disable C1 Demotion.

Disabling the core C states reduces latency. This seems best for smooth game play. A fixed and consistent CPU speed also helps.

Hopefully my wall of text will help explain some of the questions you had. I love how my 10850K runs after a few ThrottleStop tweaks. All of Intel's new CPUs that run Cinebench at 100°C are not for me. Core temps under 70°C while running Cinebench at 4900 MHz (10900K default speed) is not that bad.

As you say, it seems best to use a plan that disables C-State only during gaming.

thanks for the answer.

 

[paxtax]

The cause was discovered by updating ThrottleStop.

I thought SST was disabled, but after updating to 9.7, the TPL window displayed SST enabled in green.

When I explicitly set Intel Speed Shift from Auto to Disabled in the BIOS, the above message disappeared, and the SpeedShift setting also disappeared from the ThrottleStop main screen.
When I verified it after that, all the stutters when turning on C-State were resolved.

Apart from this, the crashes caused by overclocking and undervoltage settings were also resolved by disabling SST.

When I set the core and cache to -70mv in ThrottleStop (80mv is an error), TS Bench would immediately report an error, but now there are no problems.
Even in games that use AVX, WHEA no longer occurs and everything is normal.

With the above underbolt, it looks like this:
Neither of them exceed 70 degrees in Cinebench, etc.
There is no change in the game even if I OC, so I use the core clock at stock.
53 52 50 50: vdloop 1.22v max Vcore 1.30v
53 52 50 49: vdloop 1.16v max Vcore 1.26v

I don't know why the SST in the BIOS had anything to do with this, but being able to use undervolt and C-State dramatically reduced both voltage and temperature.
Thanks for the ThrottleStop update.