Windows 11 General Discussion

[Onasi]

but SteamDeck does only video games, and if a gamer relied on a windows service, it would forcedibly fail one day or another bc MS updates ans OS upgrades, i hope no video game makerdid that !?

I mean… The Deck is explicitly tuned to run SteamOS, not Windows. That’s kinda its point. You can run Windows, sure, but it’s arguably a suboptimal experience. And there are other handhelds that run Win 11 out of the box and those seem to work alright.

And games absolutely do rely on Windows services. Multiplayer ones, to be exact. What, do you think all the TCP, UDP and Network services are unused by them for their connections?

Again, my advice would be just to leave the services alone and let them do their thing. No harm in that, that’s one part of Windows that was fairly well tuned over the years. If you want to kill the stuff that’s explicitly only related to the store or the AppX apps or whatever - go ahead. But no reason to target network services.

 

[RadeonUser]

I mean… The Deck is explicitly tuned to run SteamOS, not Windows. That’s kinda its point. You can run Windows, sure, but it’s arguably a suboptimal experience. And there are other handhelds that run Win 11 out of the box and those seem to work alright.

And games absolutely do rely on Windows services. Multiplayer ones, to be exact. What, do you think all the TCP, UDP and Network services are unused by them for their connections?

Again, my advice would be just to leave the services alone and let them do their thing. No harm in that, that’s one part of Windows that was fairly well tuned over the years. If you want to kill the stuff that’s explicitly only related to the store or the AppX apps or whatever - go ahead. But no reason to target network services.

TCP and UDP are software agnostic, just network standards.

 

[Onasi]

TCP and UDP are software agnostic, just network standards.

Sure, but I was talking about the services that are providing support and functionality for them, not the standards itself. If you want a thought experiment, turn off all or even just some major network services in Windows and try to connect to a server in your favorite MP game (or even logging in into one). Hint: it won’t work. This was just me responding to Klemc asking whether games make use of Windows Services or are depending on them.

 

[Klemc]

I mean… The Deck is explicitly tuned to run SteamOS, not Windows. That’s kinda its point. You can run Windows, sure, but it’s arguably a suboptimal experience. And there are other handhelds that run Win 11 out of the box and those seem to work alright.

And games absolutely do rely on Windows services. Multiplayer ones, to be exact. What, do you think all the TCP, UDP and Network services are unused by them for their connections?

Again, my advice would be just to leave the services alone and let them do their thing. No harm in that, that’s one part of Windows that was fairly well tuned over the years. If you want to kill the stuff that’s explicitly only related to the store or the AppX apps or whatever - go ahead. But no reason to target network services.

No there is not, and for me Win is good since i play 99% low-end games, 2D pixart for most.

No, bc OLED, yeah.

I mean… The Deck is explicitly tuned to run SteamOS, not Windows. That’s kinda its point. You can run Windows, sure, but it’s arguably a suboptimal experience. And there are other handhelds that run Win 11 out of the box and those seem to work alright.

And games absolutely do rely on Windows services. Multiplayer ones, to be exact. What, do you think all the TCP, UDP and Network services are unused by them for their connections?

Again, my advice would be just to leave the services alone and let them do their thing. No harm in that, that’s one part of Windows that was fairly well tuned over the years. If you want to kill the stuff that’s explicitly only related to the store or the AppX apps or whatever - go ahead. But no reason to target network services.

Oh no, my PC boots and shuts down instantly with 100+ services disabled, it always did

 

[Onasi]

No there is not, and for me Win is good since i play 99% low-end games, 2D pixart for most.

Do they not run via Proton or something? My understanding was that “low-end” games specifically run on SteamOS just fine without any messing around.

 

[windwhirl]

For the record, Windows does take note of what you do with the system so over time some services are no longer engaged at startup unless there's something depending on them.

This is known behavior since Windows 10 at least.

 

[Klemc]

Do they not run via Proton or something? My understanding was that “low-end” games specifically run on SteamOS just fine without any messing around.

Windows has no BT and Wifi drivers for OLED Deck (anyway), just LCD Deck has drivers, and Windows not need Proton, it's Wibnows games that work like on desktop.

 

[Onasi]

Windows has no BT and Wifi drivers for OLED Deck (anyway), just LCD Deck has drivers, and Windows not need Proton, it's Wibnows games that work like on desktop.

This doesn’t really answer my question - why not just run SteamOS?

 

[Klemc]

This doesn’t really answer my question - why not just run SteamOS?

Because i know Windows well, also never play MP games.

Have to learn the tricks of "Linux" is like send me back twenty years back in computers knowledge, and it doesn't appeals me to have to handle terminal (console).

EDIT
OKay, done, my Deck is twice more responsive, not in games, but explorer, boot and shutdown, that means something.

 

[Space Lynx]

I have a bad feeling that when Windows 10 end of life arrives, about 6 months after that, M$ is going to shove more and more crap into Windows 11 we don't want, in the name of pleasing the shareholders short term greed.

I may have to say goodbye to a few games if this day comes, but if it does, then Linux shall be my mistress forever, and honestly Linux is so easy to use now for basic users, there is no real reason not to for my personal use case. Other than there are a few games I just don't want to say goodbye to yet.

 

[Klemc]

I have a bad feeling that when Windows 10 end of life arrives, about 6 months after that, M$ is going to shove more and more crap into Windows 11 we don't want, in the name of pleasing the shareholders short term greed.

I may have to say goodbye to a few games if this day comes, but if it does, then Linux shall be my mistress forever, and honestly Linux is so easy to use now for basic users, there is no real reason not to for my personal use case. Other than there are a few games I just don't want to say goodbye to yet.

Perhaps, but LTSC has nothing of all of it, and it's near to be out publicly.

 

[Space Lynx]

Perhaps, but LTSC has nothing of all of it, and it's near to be out publicly.

I can't figure out LTSC, people say buy a key, well what key lot ltcs or regular ltsc, which one I don't know, where from, I don't know.

and I don't know what you mean by out publicly? you mean free, doesn't sound like microsoft to do that

 

[Klemc]

I can't figure out LTSC, people say buy a key, well what key lot ltcs or regular ltsc, which one I don't know, where from, I don't know.

and I don't know what you mean by out publicly? you mean free, doesn't sound like microsoft to do that

It's not already out, i think it's in BETA (mean needs MS account & be part of beta testers), beta is not public, right ?

 

[londiste]

I can't figure out LTSC, people say buy a key, well what key lot ltcs or regular ltsc, which one I don't know, where from, I don't know.

and I don't know what you mean by out publicly? you mean free, doesn't sound like microsoft to do that

LTSC is a variant of Enterprise. Enterprise is only available with a volume licensing contract of some type. Getting one legally as a home user for one computer is basically prohibitively expensive plus dealing with MS contracts is a real pain in the ass - that is normally, they might not want to talk about anything related to single computer or home use.

 

[Space Lynx]

LTSC is a variant of Enterprise. Enterprise is only available with a volume licensing contract of some type. Getting one legally as a home user for one computer is basically prohibitively expensive plus dealing with MS contracts is a real pain in the ass - that is normally, they might not want to talk about anything related to single computer or home use.

see, you still didn't answer the question.

ltsc or ltsc lot, which is best for gaming, which has longest life of updates. i could google and research these things but it just doesn't interest me anymore M$ will always find a way so i will just stick with 11, its w.e

 

[Onasi]

ltsc or ltsc lot, which is best for gaming, which has longest life of updates. i could google and research these things but it just doesn't interest me anymore M$ will always find a way so i will just stick with 11, its w.e

For pure gaming, if nothing else is a concern and the OS is essentially only used to click a game launcher icon and from there start up a game - it doesn’t matter. At all. You might as well use stock consumer Win 11 without issue. Sure, there are talks about LTSC or LTSC IOT being more performant in games, but on good hardware the difference is hardly insane and it’s not like a regular image cannot be tweaked for similar purposes. And as for updates - if we talk overall, then the regular version is “better” from the standpoint of getting all the feature releases and is (presumably) easily updated to whatever next version MS will create. With LTSC you get security and fixes only for a predetermined timeframe. No feature releases, so you get 24H2 and stay on 24H2 for the whole period. Both versions are exactly the same in this regard.

People here, like me, and, I would wager, @lexluthermiester, are looking into LTSC usage because when you interact with the OS for more than just leisure, all of MS bullshit comes to the surface and causes annoyance. Especially if you have to setup multiple systems often, be it as a hobby or professionally. It just cuts down on time needed to get a solid OOB OS that just gets out of the way.

 

[Klemc]

For pure gaming, if nothing else is a concern and the OS is essentially only used to click a game launcher icon and from there start up a game - it doesn’t matter. At all. You might as well use stock consumer Win 11 without issue. Sure, there are talks about LTSC or LTSC IOT being more performant in games, but on good hardware the difference is hardly insane and it’s not like a regular image cannot be tweaked for similar purposes. And as for updates - if we talk overall, then the regular version is “better” from the standpoint of getting all the feature releases and is (presumably) easily updated to whatever next version MS will create. With LTSC you get security and fixes only for a predetermined timeframe. No feature releases, so you get 24H2 and stay on 24H2 for the whole period. Both versions are exactly the same in this regard.

People here, like me, and, I would wager, @lexluthermiester, are looking into LTSC usage because when you interact with the OS for more than just leisure, all of MS bullshit comes to the surface and causes annoyance. Especially if you have to setup multiple systems often, be it as a hobby or professionally. It just cuts down on time needed to get a solid OOB OS that just gets out of the way.

Now i tried LTSC, even the explorer is more responsive, i always thinked since XP that explorere had been slowed, bc i experienced slowdowns globally, each explorer clich was slower, a PITA, strangelt, and even it's really verry strange, LTSC explorer is better.

 

[Onasi]

@Klemc
I noticed that too, but I have no way to confirm or deny if that is the property of LTSC itself in this case. 23H2 has some weird bugs and issues still, stemming from the fact that MS didn’t do a code re-base from 22H2. It’s very possible that 24H2 fixes those and that’s the reason for a more responsive Explorer on the LTSC. I will reserve judgement until I can make an apples to apples comparison when regular Win 11 24H2 releases later this year.

 

[Klemc]

@Klemc
I noticed that too, but I have no way to confirm or deny if that is the property of LTSC itself in this case. 23H2 has some weird bugs and issues still, stemming from the fact that MS didn’t do a code re-base from 22H2. It’s very possible that 24H2 fixes those and that’s the reason for a more responsive Explorer on the LTSC. I will reserve judgement until I can make an apples to apples comparison when regular Win 11 24H2 releases later this year.

No, 24H2 is nothing but AI, i think. LTSC will not be 24H2's, but based on 23H2 ! Right (makes sense) ?

What LTSC looks like is that they stop to "try to enhance" system when it's found to work correctly like it is set... that retail version is the guinea pig used by anyrybody (us) is modified/ruled at any moment making it less... usable.

A good way to find about would be to: extract ISO's data, compare files content, and it should be somebody that understands what the differences mean. Not Bill Gates tho.

 

[lexluthermiester]

People here, like me, and, I would wager, @lexluthermiester, are looking into LTSC usage because when you interact with the OS for more than just leisure, all of MS bullshit comes to the surface and causes annoyance. Especially if you have to setup multiple systems often, be it as a hobby or professionally. It just cuts down on time needed to get a solid OOB OS that just gets out of the way.

You are correct! I like my OS install lean, clean, secure and free of ANY crap.

ltsc or ltsc lot, which is best for gaming, which has longest life of updates.

Honestly, I'd be happy with either one.

 

[windwhirl]

No, 24H2 is nothing but AI, i think. LTSC will not be 24H2's, but based on 23H2 ! Right (makes sense) ?

What LTSC looks like is that they stop to "try to enhance" system when it's found to work correctly like it is set... that retail version is the guinea pig used by anyrybody (us) is modified/ruled at any moment making it less... usable.

A good way to find about would be to: extract ISO's data, compare files content, and it should be somebody that understands what the differences mean. Not Bill Gates tho.

No. LTSC is based on build 26100, which is 24H2, which you can see in the screenshot provided by sam:

Got me grubby mitts on it.

View attachment 348751

This is how Windows 11 should've been from the beginning. The only preinstalled crapware is Edge, and it doesn't require a Microsoft account to install.

I might actually use this.

 

[Onasi]

@Klemc
24H2 features a full re-base of the kernel, so no, it’s not “just AI”. There’s a reason why I said I am waiting to make a comparative test. And, as @windwhirl says, LTSC is 24H2 based.

 

[sam_86314]

see, you still didn't answer the question.

ltsc or ltsc lot, which is best for gaming, which has longest life of updates. i could google and research these things but it just doesn't interest me anymore M$ will always find a way so i will just stick with 11, its w.e

LTSC IoT is the one you want. It has longer support and doesn't have all of the normal Windows 11 requirements.

Here's a table I found somewhere that compares them.

 

[GerKNG]

Where did you see ads? I have never seen ads. Maybe its a regional thing?

This.
Ads and Pop ups, forced automatic restarts for updates etc.
I have never seen any of that in my life.

 

[Ferrum Master]

This.
Ads and Pop ups, forced automatic restarts for updates etc.
I have never seen any of that in my life.

It is country dependent. I was in US month ago, you cannot even imagine what kind of nonsense I saw across platforms. Everyone tries to screw you. Our EU accounts actually have less crap. But still does. Wait someone to pay to target you at your locale.