Editorial AMD is Becoming a Software Company. Here's the Plan

[the54thvoid]

Can people please stick to the topic which is AMD's move to becoming a software orientated outfit. If you feel the need to talk about Nvidia (already being a software focused company), do it in a constructive way that doesn't require sticking pointless hostility (and epeen) into the thread.

If you can't make a post without attacking someone else, you should walk away from the thread before you get an enforced holiday. I can't speak for the other mods, but I am sick and tired of the needless antagonism that AMD/NV threads provoke. Debate and critique, by all means, but do it without being an arse to your fellow TPU'ers.

Thanks.

 

[AusWolf]

Don't they just! Plenty of other examples don't get called out however, some in this very thread, so it seems like personal bias (form absolutely everyone) about the facts and opinions seems to override the compulsion to take exception to every time they're worded incorrectly.

I'm on my phone on a holiday - I can't call out every single person who words their personal opinion as fact. I agree with the notion, though, regardless of which company you're talking about. A staff member should be extra diligent in wording, though, as their posts tend to bear a bit more weight than the rest of ours.

 

[Kn0xxPT]

"Ecosystem" is just a marketing buzzword. AMD GPUs have the exact same feature set for gaming except for DLSS, which isn't necessary when you have FSR. Day-one drivers aren't necessary to run your games, either. AMD drivers work just as well as Nvidia. I know because I own several GPUs from both manufacturers.

Ecosystem is not a buzzword if you know why some people prefer to use CUDA instead of ROCm, and why productivity suites use NVIDIA preferably... because they work has intented without problems.
AMD should make the "software divison" sooner, because Nvidia provided a better support to Game Studios and Developers for years. Something that AMD lacked... they started to ramp up support when Intel entered in the gpu business.
in case you wondering... Support to Developers(either gaming or scientific) is included on the "EcoSystem".
That ecosystem is also one big relief on bugfixing/optimization tools for Developers... it makes their life easear, Nvidia puts that in their pricetag.
Sony/Playstation is the best ally to AMD for the GPU ecosystem ...

 

[AusWolf]

Ecosystem is not a buzzword if you know why some people prefer to use CUDA instead of ROCm, and why productivity suites use NVIDIA preferably... because they work has intented without problems.
AMD should make the "software divison" sooner, because Nvidia provided a better support to Game Studios and Developers for years. Something that AMD lacked... they started to ramp up support when Intel entered in the gpu business.
in case you wondering... Support to Developers(either gaming or scientific) is included on the "EcoSystem".
That ecosystem is also one big relief on bugfixing/optimization tools for Developers... it makes their life easear, Nvidia puts that in their pricetag.
Sony/Playstation is the best ally to AMD for the GPU ecosystem ...

CUDA is still just a single feature used by various software. Working together with developers to make sure everything functions as intended... Okay, I'll give you that. But buying an Nvidia or AMD GPU purely for gaming because of "the ecosystem" is bullshit. There is no ecosystem for PC gaming.

 

[A Computer Guy]

CUDA is still just a single feature used by various software. Working together with developers to make sure everything functions as intended... Okay, I'll give you that. But buying an Nvidia or AMD GPU purely for gaming because of "the ecosystem" is bullshit. There is no ecosystem for PC gaming.

DirectX ... DirectX enabled/optimized cards ... various upscaling enablement DLSS/FSR & RT added to games etc... is that not reflective of a hardware/software gaming ecosystem? Maybe I missed the point.

 

[Kn0xxPT]

But buying an Nvidia or AMD GPU purely for gaming because of "the ecosystem" is bullshit. There is no ecosystem for PC gaming.

Your seeing at a consumer level... the "ecosystem" is in the simple fact that you run a game and it works... the gaming ecosystem is there, and mainly Drivers and Drivers Optmizations... even Vulkan/DirectX.
Working with Developers to provide Drivers optimizations is Nvidia's playfield...
So... yeah ... there is a lot ecosystem in gaming.
Why AMD doesn have better features ? because like the article said .."AMD is a hardware company" they release features on "opensource" because they dont have a dedicated division to enchance those features at Nvidia's level, and to support developers.

Nvidia provides tools to their hardware, AMD doesn't ( or mimimal toolset for it) ... and those tools are the main reason of why Nvidia works best.

 

[Assimilator]

Working together with developers to make sure everything functions as intended... Okay, I'll give you that.

Games and drivers are the ecosystem in consumer space. And NVIDIA consistently works with game developers to make sure their games work well with NVIDIA hardware, or have NVIDIA-specific feature like DLSS. Not to mention GeForce Experience and GeForce NOW.

 

[wolf]

But buying an Nvidia or AMD GPU purely for gaming because of "the ecosystem" is bullshit. There is no ecosystem for PC gaming.

Wrong. Knowing day 1 drivers are there before AAA releases, knowing they will not only work well but support features I want, knowing there is a large community behind it, to report and remedy any issues, choose your word of choice but it's an ecosystem and it's valuable. AMD are pretty decent at this but the software ecosystem evidently needs work to be considered top dog, even they want that, evidently, from their own words in this editorial.

 

[AusWolf]

DirectX ... DirectX enabled/optimized cards ... various upscaling enablement DLSS/FSR & RT added to games etc... is that not reflective of a hardware/software gaming ecosystem? Maybe I missed the point.

DirectX is an ecosystem, as it encompasses various technologies under a common brand, but it's supported by every GPU. DLSS/FSR are single features, not a collection of different things, so they're not ecosystems.

Your seeing at a consumer level... the "ecosystem" is in the simple fact that you run a game and it works... the gaming ecosystem is there, and mainly Drivers and Drivers Optmizations... even Vulkan/DirectX.
Working with Developers to provide Drivers optimizations is Nvidia's playfield...
So... yeah ... there is a lot ecosystem in gaming.
Why AMD doesn have better features ? because like the article said .."AMD is a hardware company" they release features on "opensource" because they dont have a dedicated division to enchance those features at Nvidia's level, and to support developers.

Nvidia provides tools to their hardware, AMD doesn't ( or mimimal toolset for it) ... and those tools are the main reason of why Nvidia works best.

Yes, I'm looking at a consumer level because I am one. What's wrong with that?

Wrong. Knowing day 1 drivers are there before AAA releases, knowing they will not only work well but support features I want, knowing there is a large community behind it, to report and remedy any issues, choose your word of choice but it's an ecosystem and it's valuable. AMD are pretty decent at this but the software ecosystem evidently needs work to be considered top dog, even they want that, evidently, from their own words in this editorial.

I don't need day-1 drivers to run games, but each to their own, I guess.

 

[A Computer Guy]

I don't need day-1 drivers to run games, but each to their own, I guess.

It seems these days you get major defects or just broken games without day-1 drivers. A healthy ecosystem of collaboration is required to get day-1 drivers otherwise we might as well just go back to playing retro consoles. If AMD's software effort includes ensuring working with game devs and providing stable drivers than good although it seems all this software talk is geared toward AI were all the money seems to be going at the moment.

 

[AusWolf]

It seems these days you get major defects or just broken games without day-1 drivers. A healthy ecosystem of collaboration is required to get day-1 drivers otherwise we might as well just go back to playing retro consoles.

I've never had any issue due to not using a game-ready driver. Although I admit, I rarely ever buy games on day one.

If AMD's software effort includes ensuring working with game devs and providing stable drivers than good although it seems all this software talk is geared toward AI were all the money seems to be going at the moment.

I'm getting the same vibes, unfortunately.

 

[64K]

It seems these days you get major defects or just broken games without day-1 drivers. A healthy ecosystem of collaboration is required to get day-1 drivers otherwise we might as well just go back to playing retro consoles. If AMD's software effort includes ensuring working with game devs and providing stable drivers than good although it seems all this software talk is geared toward AI were all the money seems to be going at the moment.

Nope. You get games with major problems and sometimes completely broken because Publishers rush the games to market before they are finished properly. It usually takes several patches from the Developer to patch and polish a game to a point where it's fit to play well.

 

[maxfly]

AMD clearly has something Nvidia lacks and has wanted dearly for many years. Their own series of top tier CPUs in both the consumer and business worlds. Let us not forget the infallible Nvidia with their very expensive wiff in the failed acquisition of ARM (oh my did leather jacket boy want that one bad). Thankfully regulators saved us from that catastrophe (over concerns that Nvidia would unfairly use its ownership of Arm's technology to harm competitors, nuh uh, not our savior Nvidia). Just imagine their market position today had they succeeded...nauseating.

AMD will be fiiiine fine. Their position is much stronger than many want to admit. Lisa Su might have a brain cell or two after all, just maybe. Rather than burying AMD before the tale begins. Personally, I look forward to finding out how this story plays out.

 

[bitsandboots]

AMD Whos software is worst in class is becoming a Software company... but they have _ALWAYS_ Been a software company

It's like a pizza shop who offers a steak dinner
Yeah, they make steak, but they aren't a steakhouse.
And that summarizes AMD's software for me. Not something they worked their hardest on, or are proud of.

 

[Assimilator]

AMD clearly has something Nvidia lacks and has wanted dearly for many years.

A finger in both CPU and GPU pies? Except that AMD has spectacularly and consistently failed to purvey that diversity into profits anywhere close to the levels of its competitors.

 

[maxfly]

A finger in both CPU and GPU pies? Except that AMD has spectacularly and consistently failed to purvey that diversity into profits anywhere close to the levels of its competitors.

And yet, they've managed to somehow survive and even thrive in arguably the two most hostile tech environs out there. Despite the best efforts of both their mighty foes attempts to bury them over the years they continue to creep right along. Somehow beating the odds year after year after year.

Having the wherewithall and courage to make such a drastic pivot (as some here have alluded to)may seem like history repeating itself to some. Or is it simply a smart business move to gain a larger foothold? We shall see. Regardless of what we part time corporate/business professionals may profess. AMD seems to firmly think this is exactly what is required to purvey their diversity into market share and profits.

As I said, I look forward to watching the show. Good, bad or ugly it should be interesting.

 

[bitsandboots]

A finger in both CPU and GPU pies? Except that AMD has spectacularly and consistently failed to purvey that diversity into profits anywhere close to the levels of its competitors.

Even that isn't true though. Nvidia has ARM CPUs. The Nintendo Switch for example. Tesla cars as another.
But they don't have x86, and either they're unable or unwilling to engage in pushing their CPUs directly into the server business.
It'd be interesting if due to qualcomms ARM laptop efforts if it ever made nvidia enter that segment. But somehow I doubt it. They had ARM in phones, and gave it up. I guess they just didn't find the profit or success in that market to continue it.

 

[INSTG8R]

I guess after using just AMD since the 9600XT I could be considered a “fan boy” I’ve been part of the GPU driver Beta Testing since 2018.
BUT as others have mentioned and I hold the same grudge… TIMING! They are always just “too late" I’ll give a simple recent example. Starfield “should” have been theyre big chance to launch FSR3, nope months later, the momentum was already gone.The one I did get right was Lisa playing the “long game” With the CPUs Zen shook up everything finally.
I will currently stay optimistic and hope this is another “long game“ play that will end in significant dividends if they play it right and NOT screw up the timing…

To me, ecosystem means a set of features and/or products that work closely with each other to provide a distinct experience. AMD has nothing of the sort.

Mmmm there’s “kinda” a but in there. Now I’m still on AM4 but Zen4 and RDNA3 when combined offer a ”Smart Technology“ suite. I’ll be totally honest I don’t exactly know the details but regardless it’s definitely an ”ecosystem“ of sorts.

 

[nguyen]

LOL AMD would rather spent their money on buying other companies than to innovate new products

AMD to Acquire Silo AI to Expand Enterprise AI Solutions Globally

AMD today announced the signing of a definitive agreement to acquire Silo AI, the largest private AI lab in Europe, in an all-cash transaction valued at approximately $665 million. The agreement represents another significant step in the company's strategy to deliver end-to-end AI solutions...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[the54thvoid]

If you're laughing at AMD buying other companies instead of innovating, you should check what the other players do:

List of 21 Acquisitions by NVIDIA (Jul 2024) - Tracxn

NVIDIA has made 21 acquisitions across sectors such as AI Infrastructure, Enterprise Storage and others. Brev, Shoreline and Deci are its latest acquisitions.

tracxn.com

They both buy smaller companies. Often to mop up their IP and use for themselves. All large companies buy smaller ones.

 

[INSTG8R]

LOL AMD would rather spent their money on buying other companies than to innovate new products

AMD to Acquire Silo AI to Expand Enterprise AI Solutions Globally

AMD today announced the signing of a definitive agreement to acquire Silo AI, the largest private AI lab in Europe, in an all-cash transaction valued at approximately $665 million. The agreement represents another significant step in the company's strategy to deliver end-to-end AI solutions...

www.techpowerup.com

Or as Intelligent person would come to the conclusion they are broadening their portfolio? Same as aquiring Xlinx ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[nguyen]

If you're laughing at AMD buying other companies instead of innovating, you should check what the other players do:

List of 21 Acquisitions by NVIDIA (Jul 2024) - Tracxn

NVIDIA has made 21 acquisitions across sectors such as AI Infrastructure, Enterprise Storage and others. Brev, Shoreline and Deci are its latest acquisitions.

tracxn.com

View attachment 354699
They both buy smaller companies. Often to mop up their IP and use for themselves. All large companies buy smaller ones.

All fun and game until you see that AMD is almost out of free cash flow, meanwhile Nvidia is on a different planet

Or as Intelligent person would come to the conclusion they are broadening their portfolio? Same as aquiring Xlinx ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Or AMD could have reserved some money paying their beta testers ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[AusWolf]

Mmmm there’s “kinda” a but in there. Now I’m still on AM4 but Zen4 and RDNA3 when combined offer a ”Smart Technology“ suite. I’ll be totally honest I don’t exactly know the details but regardless it’s definitely an ”ecosystem“ of sorts.

I've recently used Zen 4 with RDNA 2 and 3 GPUs, and didn't notice any difference. The only reason it kind of feels like an ecosystem is that you control both the Zen 4 iGPU and your dGPU from the same software suite, but that's true with any AMD+AMD architecture. You don't need RDNA 3 for that.

 

[INSTG8R]

I've recently used Zen 4 with RDNA 2 and 3 GPUs, and didn't notice any difference. The only reason it kind of feels like an ecosystem is that you control both the Zen 4 iGPU and your dGPU from the same software suite, but that's true with any AMD+AMD architecture. You don't need RDNA 3 for that.

Hmmm without installing Public drivers I’m not sure I can show you what I’m talking about. I don’t know if the feature is public facing yet.…
Edit: Not as bells and whistles I thought it was. The "main" paired feature is just speeding up encoding.. Not a feature I'd ever use anyway

 

[dragontamer5788]

All fun and game until you see that AMD is almost out of free cash flow

Do you seriously think that AMD, a smaller company with fewer resources, should be hoarding cash?

NVidia or Apple, who sit at the top of the market and have no idea what to spend money on anymore. Their cash flow and cash pile is higher and higher, and that's fine for the stage at which they're at. Saving up cash for when your competition catches up and figuring out what to do later is fine and expected as a strategy.

But any smaller company needs to be burning cash to try to catch up. As long as its not losing profits / net-income, that's fine. Buying up a small (but profitable) company is a lot of cash flow, but the investments are obviously worth it. AMD simply isn't in a position where they can have positive cash flow IMO.