Intel Statement on 13th and 14th Gen Core Instability: Faulty Microcode Causes Excessive Voltages, Fix Out Soon

[MaMoo]

No way in hell do I believe any of this from Intel, that some microcode will fix it, no, its a serious problem with their average mediocre product and this fix is just some clever trick that hides it. Its not a fab limitation but just their awful product. Bunch of corrupt arseholes being sponsored by the gov, sickens me, hope they get sued big time and are forced to pay everyone with a bad cpu.
Wont touch Intel ever again, unless they do something magical. But due to the harsh demise of moores law they cant do anything better than AMD. I would love to be able to say their product lacks innovation and is a turd, but everyone is feeling it, its getting so hard to progress further.

My only test would be whether or not undervolted CPUs had failed. Not everyone runs their RPL on all core max turbo, some tone down the voltages and disable turbo. Makes me wonder what are the failures seen in those chips?

 

[RGAFL]

Oh good, if clockspeeds ain't the issue then there won't be a 3% performance penalty but a 0%? Even better

You make light of it but there are companies who have spent millions/billions with Intel that will have their CPUS replaced within 24 hours to keep them quiet.

The ones I really feel sorry for are the normal consumers who try to run a game but it crashes at shader compilation or run something and it crashes, all due to a Intel problem. Intel are shafting them with a microcode update mid August and hoping for the best. And that's not mentioning the problems they will probably have further down the road with the degradation.

You do you though. Support and applaud a company that treats its customers appallingly in my opinion. If people/companies/investors let Intel get away with this then all you are doing is allowing companies to keep on releasing shoddy products and rewarding them with a sale with no recourse.

Me personally, no Intel products in the future. I can't reward failure to acknowledge and fix a problem and shaft consumers. It's not like they don't have previous.

 

[AusWolf]

They can't, since it's competition, there is more than one brand, so they can't have the full control.

Boss: "Is it ready yet?"
Engineer: "Well ummm, there's this..."
Boss: "Good. We're releasing it tomorrow."

It's pretty much the same story in every industry, unfortunately.

 

[btk2k2]

So amd overvolted their 3d chips in order to compete turning them into handgrenades and then Intel overvolted theirs resulting in crashes. Lovely market, competition is great

Asus overvolted the SOC and it was fixed within weeks via an AGESA update pushed by AMD / Mobo vendors.

In the race to performance, it seems nobody's innocent of cutting corners. Who'd a thunk it?

You should not be quoting such a blatantly skewed take. It is a false equivalence and you should know better.

This, exactly this. "Let's clock our CPUs to the bleeding edge to squeeze out a few more points in a benchmark because we are intellectually bankrupt and incapable of building an actually good product" is by far the most stupid race to the bottom that I've yet seen in my 25+ years of PC hardware experience, and I've seen a lot of stupidity. I'm glad it backfired on AMD and I'm glad it's backfiring on Intel, because it seems that getting hit in the wallet is the only way these companies will learn to not do stupid shit like this. BUILD. BETTER. PRODUCTS.

Given there was no performance difference pre / post the updated AGESA it seems more likely that this was just an oversight by ASUS than an attempt to win at all costs. Just another false equivalence to try and make Intel seem less at fault.

As for the Intel issue. Hopefully it fixes it for users who are not having issues. I also hope the extend the warranties for any purchases made between the affected products release date and the release date of the new microcode because it could be a while before some chips start to suffer issues due to faster degradation caused by the faulty microcode.

 

[Klemc]

Boss: "Is it ready yet?" (better answer !YES! man, you know why)
Engineer: "Well ummm, there's this..." (i'm not responsible of failures anyway, somebody else will endorse in case of failure)
Boss: "Good. We're releasing it tomorrow." (let's bench win over concurrent, numbers matter)

It's pretty much the same story in every industry, unfortunately.

In bold is what is in their mind.

fevgatos said:
So amd overvolted their 3d chips in order to compete turning them into handgrenades and then Intel overvolted theirs resulting in crashes. Lovely market, competition is great

Did AMD wrong SoC gave gain in benchs ?.. if not, so BS.

 

[AusWolf]

Did AMD wrong SoC gave gain in benchs ?.. if not, so BS.

AMD didn't overvolt anything. ASUS did.

 

[Caring1]

This smells more like an Intel coverup as they blame excess voltages and think a microcode update will fix it.

 

[Klemc]

AMD didn't overvolt anything. ASUS did.

No,i read it's an AGESA thing just recently in one of those Intel broke stuff, and not only ASUS, also it looks RAM dependant behavior, a lot reports had GSkill

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Well, if your chip is already crashing, it's time for warranty service. If it's not crashing yet, maybe the update will keep it from crashing. I don't see how performance will be unaffected. This looks heavily tied to TVB, which depends on riding the ridges of the voltage/frequency/thermal curves. It's essentially a just-in-time auto-overclocking algorithm. Pull voltage back, and I just don't see how they can maintain the frequency. There's a reason they went with the voltages they did (and it wasn't an oops), but ironically, the thing that was supposed to aid in stability is killing stability. The chip is overvolting too high because they are trying to clock it too high. The performance penalty has got to be the other shoe to drop. Do we really think it's a coincidence that no other products are clocking to 6.0GHz+? Their next gen stuff looks to be peeling back clocks and power significantly. What changed? They knew Raptor Lake was a gamble, but look how long we've had Raptor Lake as their premium desktop offering. They haven't been able to fill its shoes fast enough, and there was no other product to sell on the desktop that wouldn't be embarrassed.

In relation to AMD, now Zen 5 is going to look even better, hitting 14900k performance without those power needs, while also (hopefully) maintaining stability. I recall some folks here arguing that wasn't a big enough achievement, but it appears only one product is legitimate. Who's going to buy a Raptor Lake with any confidence now?

 

[fevgatos]

You make light of it but there are companies who have spent millions/billions with Intel that will have their CPUS replaced within 24 hours to keep them quiet.

The ones I really feel sorry for are the normal consumers who try to run a game but it crashes at shader compilation or run something and it crashes, all due to a Intel problem. Intel are shafting them with a microcode update mid August and hoping for the best. And that's not mentioning the problems they will probably have further down the road with the degradation.

You do you though. Support and applaud a company that treats its customers appallingly in my opinion. If people/companies/investors let Intel get away with this then all you are doing is allowing companies to keep on releasing shoddy products and rewarding them with a sale with no recourse.

Me personally, no Intel products in the future. I can't reward failure to acknowledge and fix a problem and shaft consumers. It's not like they don't have previous.

I'm not going to punish a company based on someone else's experience. Intel cpus have worked flawlessly for me so there is that, I'll keep buying until they don't.

 

[Klemc]

Who's going to buy a Raptor Lake with any confidence now?

Testers, there is a lot, the more interests in the thing, the more CPU sold

 

[Vincero]

I'm not going to punish a company based on someone else's experience. Intel cpus have worked flawlessly for me so there is that, I'll keep buying until they don't.

Not even if their business practices are shown to be either dishonest, anti-competitve, anti-consumer, or just bad in general?

NOTE: This is not a specific reference to any particular event previously - just a general question.

 

[fevgatos]

Not even if their business practices are shown to be either dishonest, anti-competitve, anti-consumer, or just bad in general?

NOTE: This is not a specific reference to any particular event previously - just a general question.

Oh for sure. I'm not buying from a lot of companies cause I don't like their ethics. Amazon, amd, nestle etc.

 

[RGAFL]

Oh for sure. I'm not buying from a lot of companies cause I don't like their ethics. Amazon, amd, nestle etc.

If you don't mind me asking what did AMD do so you don't buy them?

 

[Klemc]

Oh for sure. I'm not buying from a lot of companies cause I don't like their ethics. Amazon, amd, nestle etc.

You can't even buy food thinking that way, except some BIO stuff out of the far countryside.

 

[fevgatos]

If you don't mind me asking what did AMD do so you don't buy them?

Off topic man, can we stay on topic?

Spoiler

Short answer and let's not spend 50 pages arguing, the whole treatment we got with x370 / b350 / x470 mobos, not giving bios support for zen 3, then deciding to take it back, then waiting 2 years to release proper bios was absolutely horrible. Especially considering we were first adopters buying cpus that weren't really ready for release just to support the company.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

The American government must be thinking we chucked billions at the wrong company. Wonder if they can get their money back, unlike the consumers who bought an Intel CPU.

The government is a little tied here. Intel has their own fabs, AMD doesnt. If they funded AMD, it would be a total disregard for the purpose of CHIPS in the first place.

The bigger issue is just the total lack of fabs. They need to be focusing on that more, but who do you go to? TSMC? Samsung? We have an effective monopoly/duopoly on high end nodes.

I think their big hope was intel being that competitor, but now.....of course, I dont think this is a 10nm issues, or intel 7, or whatever they call it. the 12th gen seems to be perfectly fine. We've seen 13th and 14th gen T series fail, so its not clock speed either. Seems to me, something in the design, something involving the cache changes made to 13th gen, and the removal of AVX512, broke something else that makes these a very expensive fuse.

Maybe, just maybe, we'll see a recall on par with the pentium III 1.13 GHz recall.

 

[fevgatos]

You can't even buy food thinking that way, except some BIO stuff out of the far countryside.

I'm buying bio food and clothing mostly. Cant avoid everything but I try.

 

[Hecate91]

Claiming AMD has bad ethical practices? Wow the irony here, Intel pushed their products so hard while also telling consumers they have the best and most stable products, now that they get caught with crashing and degradation, admitting their cpu's were affected by oxidization yet didn't inform their consumers, and people will still defend them as a company. That is just sad in my opinion, I personally am going to avoid Intel for a while, the way Intel has handled this issue has been disappointing to say the least.

 

[Klemc]

In competition, every seller sells the best, that's competion, but in true competition only winner has, the best. Also 120w 7800x3d Vs. 400w is 4x less the best comparing to watts.

 

[nomdeplume]

Intel Corporation today outlined a new financial reporting structure that is aligned with the company's previously announced foundry operating model for 2024 and beyond. This new structure is designed to drive increased cost discipline and higher returns by providing greater transparency, accountability and incentives across the business. To support the new structure, Intel provided recast operating segment financial results for the years 2023, 2022 and 2021. The company also shared a targeted path toward long-term growth and profitability of Intel Foundry, as well as clear goals for driving financial performance improvement and shareholder value creation.

Intel Outlines New Financial Reporting Structure

Intel Corporation today outlined a new financial reporting structure that is aligned with the company's previously announced foundry operating model for 2024 and beyond. This new structure is designed to drive increased cost discipline and higher returns by providing greater transparency...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Vincero]

Maybe, just maybe, we'll see a recall on par with the pentium III 1.13 GHz recall.

Unlikely to be 'on par' - the P3 recall never really touched the consumer space as Intel had shipped out so few to OEMs that ultimately nobody outside of the OEM or press effectively had their hands on them, and as far as is known it wasn't a silicon / die design issue. That was likely a silicon limitation where it literally couldn't go any quicker without timing bugs that they couldn't correct until they moved to Tualatin cores (maybe they could have microcode fixed it but would probably have negated the performance increase over the normal coppermine 1GHz chips), so again a bit different in terms of cause and solution.

The fact customers have these chips in the wild is a much bigger problem in comparison. The closest Intel f**k-up would be the original Pentium bug where log 4 / log 2 != 2 - there they had to replace chips in the wild as it couldn't be fixed via microcode updates due to missing logic...

 

[Daven]

Off topic man, can we stay on topic?

Spoiler

Short answer and let's not spend 50 pages arguing, the whole treatment we got with x370 / b350 / x470 mobos, not giving bios support for zen 3, then deciding to take it back, then waiting 2 years to release proper bios was absolutely horrible. Especially considering we were first adopters buying cpus that weren't really ready for release just to support the company.

Yes let’s not dwell. Wouldn’t want you to go out of your way. Btw your reasoning is laughable compared to long term chip degradation. The whole thing screams of incompetence mixed with planned obsolescence conspiracies.

Anyway, it will take some time for Intel to get trust back. Arrow Lake might be a step in the right direction. Looks like Intel might be willing to lose benchmarks in favor of just getting their products to work right long term.

 

[RGAFL]

Off topic man, can we stay on topic?

Spoiler

Short answer and let's not spend 50 pages arguing, the whole treatment we got with x370 / b350 / x470 mobos, not giving bios support for zen 3, then deciding to take it back, then waiting 2 years to release proper bios was absolutely horrible. Especially considering we were first adopters buying cpus that weren't really ready for release just to support the company.

I got a beta Bios a week after Zen 3 release for my MSI B350 board. Think i'm still on it as it goes as if it's not broke don't fix it. My sons got it now. Working fine with no problems. I do know other boards took quite a while to get updates.

So you seem quite a principled guy and this Intel situation is not ethically challenging for you. It's okay to effect other people as long as you're okay?

Groucho Marx:

These Are My Principles. If You Don’t Like Them I Have Others.​

 

[Redwoodz]

No he doesn't. He is lying to you. No way he is running 1.56 for more than 5 minutes.


Can you stop talking about amds handgrenades and focus on the topic? Thanks.

Tired of you changing the goal posts . You are the one who claimed AMD did the same thing. They did not. 3D cache chips where a different animal. Because of the cache overlaying the core, overvolting the cache resulted in some shorts through the vertical layer. TOTALLY different than Intel overclocking the whole chip to compete, Get real man.