INTEL, I'm here to stay

[fevgatos]

Bottom line though people just need to look at what cpu best fits their needs or use case this has never changed what's right for one person isn't for the next.. We got the resident 6+6 cpu for life person in these forums who am I to criticize his love of all things X900 series ryzen parts.... Same with people who like E cores more power to them.

Even my cpu I don't feel is a great fit for everyone.....

We just really need these companies to make better products I will obviously wait for reviews for any future cpu to make any actual judgment though.

Just to clarify, I don't specifically like ecores. I like many cores. If I can have a 14900k look alike with 24 P cores then for sure gimme that instead of 8+16. If my 12900k had 16 P cores instead of 8+8 then hell yeah i want it. I understand that that's not possible though so instead of having a 10+0 yes, i'd prefer an 8+8.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Just to clarify, I don't specifically like ecores. I like many cores. If I can have a 14900k look alike with 24 P cores then for sure gimme that instead of 8+16. If my 12900k had 16 P cores instead of 8+8 then hell yeah i want it. I understand that that's not possible though so instead of having a 10+0 yes, i'd prefer an 8+8.

I wasn't trying to insinuate you did I think anyone would take 16P cores over 8+8.... I'd honestly be more than ok with a 12P core part... 10 is probably more than enough for me but I'd like the extra 2 just for a bit of headroom over what I need.

I am tired of 8 at this point though not because I don't think 8 cores is enough for almost everyone but mostly because I don't want to go backwards on core count been on 12+ for half a decade at this point.

I really want to see a 12 core single CCD X3D part also so my want's are pretty much the same from both companies....

 

[fevgatos]

I wasn't trying to insinuate you did I think anyone would take 16P cores over 8+8.... I'd honestly be more than ok with a 12P core part... 10 is probably more than enough for me but I'd like the extra 2 just for a bit of headroom over what I need.

I am tired of 8 at this point though not because I don't think 8 cores is enough for almost everyone but mostly because I don't want to go backwards on core count been on 12+ for half a decade at this point.

I really want to see a 12 core single CCD X3D part also so my want's are pretty much the same from both companies....

I've been asking for the 12c single ccd with extra cache from 2022. Problem is by the time we get that 12 cores will be the low option even for games. I'm already seeing some nasty 100% cpu utilizations on 8 cores in games. Try once human. Oh boy, oh boy....

 

[AusWolf]

No, im using it as a point of reference. It's the only point of reference we have. If you don't compare something to something else how do you conclude anything? The jump from 12 to 14 was around 40% in MT performance. If the competitor can give you 150% then 40% is laughable. If the competitor gives you 1% then 40% is great.

Except that's not the topic here. OP stated that he's staying with Intel despite the issues with stability and degradation. There is no mention of AMD here, and doing so only derails the topic.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Except that's not the topic here. OP stated that he's staying with Intel despite the issues with stability and degradation. There is no mention of AMD here, and doing so only derails the topic.

Yes, and people should stick with whatever CPU best fits their needs not if it has an I or A in the name on the box.

Regardless if you own an AMD or Intel product every cpu generation should be judged on it's own merits and how it stacks up to whatever other CPU's exist in a released cpu's price range.

Nobody should be ditching their 13/14th gen parts prematurely they just got 2 years of extra warranty assuming a boxed product and possibly a new line of CPUs next year for the socket.

The only real question is should people continue to buy 13900k/14900k and that is really up to the consumer to educate themselves and decide not anyone on this forum other than if they are choosing to or not to buy one out of their own pocket.

 

[Outback Bronze]

I'd honestly be more than ok with a 12P core part... 10 is probably more than enough for me

I've been waiting 3 gens lol...

In all honesty though, the 8 p cores clocked @ something like 5.5ghz with no E's is pretty damn powerful and has way less power and heat.

The other day I did a little test on RealBench and clocked the 8 p cores @ 5ghz and all E cores @ default which I think was 4.4ghz and it wasn't far off 80°c..

So, I decided to clock the 16x E cores @ 3.2ghz to see what would happen and the cpu only ran @ 40°c so I was like holy shit.

These CPU's can be manipulated in such a way that they can run beautifully cool and efficient for most people's needs.

The problem intel is facing is that majority of these customers want the so-called out the box processor speeds which is 6ghz + on the 2 cores and pumps excessive voltage to get there and I doubt most of them would have custom loops to achieve that. This was something I was never happy with out of the box, hence my own manipulation. It just ran far too hot for my liking. Even with a custom loop. I feel sad for all these i9's on an HSF & AIO's on the old stock BIOSes I'm into efficiency these days and will sure enough have spurts of OC for fun along the way but will now manipulate my CPU's and GPU's the way I want for best efficiency on 24/7 operation

 

[fevgatos]

The only real question is should people continue to buy 13900k/14900k

No. If someone has no intention of ever getting into the bios buying 13th / 14th gen is a no go. I mean it kinda was already before the whole cpu dying issue, but now with the cpus dying on top of being configured horribly out of the box, you should definitely wait until the august patch.

If someone is going to manually tune the bios regardless then I guess buy whatever, doesn't really matter.

 

[#22]

Whole instability case doesn't look good due to lasting too long, but man should understand both sides - users wanting it to be solved ASAP, but also Intel not wanting even your grandma knowing their CPUs have problems. Production mistakes happen in industry, but anybody's opinion about it and Intel as a company should be formed basing on facts only, so how Intel will handle this mess in the end. I would be fine with them if they removed all of the causes of degradation and made all CPU totally safe (by also forcing one and only motherboards defaults) plus honored whatever warranty claims by replacing the CPU. Two years longer warranty needs to work first to be nice addition.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I've been waiting 3 gens lol...

In all honesty though, the 8 p cores clocked @ something like 5.5ghz with no E's is pretty damn powerful and has way less power and heat.

The other day I did a little test on RealBench and clocked the 8 p cores @ 5ghz and all E cores @ default which I think was 4.4ghz and it wasn't far off 80°c..

So, I decided to clock the 16x E cores @ 3.2ghz to see what would happen and the cpu only ran @ 40°c so I was like holy shit.

These CPU's can be manipulated in such a way that they can run beautifully cool and efficient for most people's needs.

The problem intel is facing is that majority of these customers want the so-called out the box processor speeds which is 6ghz + on the 2 cores and pumps excessive voltage to get there and I doubt most of them would have custom loops to achieve that. This was something I was never happy with out of the box, hence my own manipulation. It just ran far too hot for my liking. Even with a custom loop. I feel sad for all these i9's on an HSF & AIO's on the old stock BIOSes I'm into efficiency these days and will sure enough have spurts of OC for fun along the way but will now manipulate my CPU's and GPU's the way I want for best efficiency on 24/7 operation

Yeah, I've had a decent amount of hands on time with 13900k it can really be a great cpu if you put in a little effort and sure it's fine performance wise out of the box just hot as hell on AIO/Air cooling, and when I say hot as hell I am not even talking about the temps all CPU run kinda warm these days I am talking about the actual heat it will dump in your room when running balls to the walls lol.

No. If someone has no intention of ever getting into the bios buying 13th / 14th gen is a no go. I mean it kinda was already before the whole cpu dying issue, but now with the cpus dying on top of being configured horribly out of the box, you should definitely wait until the august patch.

If someone is going to manually tune the bios regardless then I guess buy whatever, doesn't really matter.

I kinda feel the same you really need to go in a tweak them and they can be awesome once tweaked. I'm still not a fan of something that doesn't run fine out of the box even the 7950X3D requires hoops to get the most out of but if I leave it stock I don't have to worry about it killing itself even if that's a 5% chance..... Still it's a mildly annoying cpu as well. Again I'm not trying to do the whole AMD vs Intel thing both cpu's have a place just pointing out that currently out of the box worries me with intel at least with both the CPU's I would consider from them.

Hat's off to Puget Systems btw extending their warranties for 3 years on these parts.

Assuming a 5 year warranty and intel actually honoring it I would be less concerned now though.

 

[fevgatos]

I kinda feel the same you really need to go in a tweak them and they can be awesome once tweaked. I'm still not a fan of something that doesn't run fine out of the box even the 7950X3D requires hoops to get the most out of but if I leave it stock I don't have to worry about it killing itself even if that's a 5% chance..... Still it's a mildly annoying cpu as well. Again I'm not trying to do the whole AMD vs Intel thing both cpu's have a place just pointing out that currently out of the box worries me with intel at least with both the CPU's I would consider from them.

Hat's off to Puget Systems btw extending their warranties for 3 years on these parts.

Assuming a 5 year warranty and intel actually honoring it I would be less concerned now though.

Intel is supposedly going to announce a 2 year increase for tray cpus too. Let's wait and see.

See this is a major point of contention in all the reviews I participate. I say "14900k is awesome" and people go on a crusade to prove that it isn't because "out of the box this and that", which I frankly don't really care. Out of the box is so alien to me it just is irrelevant when it comes to my buying decisions.

Normal people should definitely care, but "normal" people aren't actively participating here. The vast majority of people reading and commenting on reviews most likely know where the bios is and how to get there

 

[BMfan80]

I know AMD isn't perfect, no one is, but it always surprise me how people stick up for Intel.
In the last 10 years they kept doing +++++++++ to all their cpus and now their cpu's start degrading with in a year or 2

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Intel is supposedly going to announce a 2 year increase for tray cpus too. Let's wait and see.

See this is a major point of contention in all the reviews I participate. I say "14900k is awesome" and people go on a crusade to prove that it isn't because "out of the box this and that", which I frankly don't really care. Out of the box is so alien to me it just is irrelevant when it comes to my buying decisions.

Normal people should definitely care, but "normal" people aren't actively participating here. The vast majority of people reading and commenting on reviews most likely know where the bios is and how to get there

Even out of the box it's a pretty awesome cpu if Intel could have configured it that way with 0 chance of degradation the only downside is power and honestly that is up to the user to decide if that tradeoff isn't worth it... It's still the best all around CPU when you just look at straight performance to me it pretty much ties the best X3D chips in gaming and is faster in MT. It's also pretty tweakable although that can vary chip to chip by a bit. I get it a lot of people don't like running a cpu 200+ watts I don't either its the reason I don't like the out of box 7950X, but raw performance of the 14900K is great.

I haven't really worked with enough of them to know what an average performance should be like the ones I worked with didn't respond as well to 125w as some of the online stuff I have seen. There may be some samples maybe even a lot of them that respond better than the ones I worked with. Z790 Hero board and Z790 Strix E btw just for reference.

Same thing really with the 7950X3D out of the box in some application it sucks but if you just set up two profiles with process lasso it's great in almost everything at much lower wattage than the 7950X

Honestly the most plug and play chip in my opinion the 7800X3D I would not run out of the box defaults either I would still tweak the ram and run a CO on it.....


Regardless though products should be reviewed at out of box settings because most people are likely to run them that way my configuration on my 7950X3D should not be how it's reviewed and someone's tweaked 14900k shouldn't be the baseline these companies really need to make sure their products work and will not kill themselves out of the box.

 

[Zazigalka]

I've been waiting 3 gens lol...

In all honesty though, the 8 p cores clocked @ something like 5.5ghz with no E's is pretty damn powerful and has way less power and heat.

The other day I did a little test on RealBench and clocked the 8 p cores @ 5ghz and all E cores @ default which I think was 4.4ghz and it wasn't far off 80°c..

So, I decided to clock the 16x E cores @ 3.2ghz to see what would happen and the cpu only ran @ 40°c so I was like holy shit.

These CPU's can be manipulated in such a way that they can run beautifully cool and efficient for most people's needs.

The problem intel is facing is that majority of these customers want the so-called out the box processor speeds which is 6ghz + on the 2 cores and pumps excessive voltage to get there and I doubt most of them would have custom loops to achieve that. This was something I was never happy with out of the box, hence my own manipulation. It just ran far too hot for my liking. Even with a custom loop. I feel sad for all these i9's on an HSF & AIO's on the old stock BIOSes I'm into efficiency these days and will sure enough have spurts of OC for fun along the way but will now manipulate my CPU's and GPU's the way I want for best efficiency on 24/7 operation

"Efficiency" my ass.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I've been asking for the 12c single ccd with extra cache from 2022. Problem is by the time we get that 12 cores will be the low option even for games. I'm already seeing some nasty 100% cpu utilizations on 8 cores in games. Try once human. Oh boy, oh boy....

When I tried to run around in Once Human it would only load one core maybe its a bug on my 7950X3D. I don't like the game so I only played 2 hours into it.... FPS was pretty high the whole time though over 200fps with some brief what looked like traversal stutter or shader compilation stutter into the mid/high 100s

I believe it's DX11 only so that could be why it has odd behavior.

 

[P4-630]

but a 3rd??

Chinese..

 

[fevgatos]

When I tried to run around in Once Human it would only load one core maybe its a bug on my 7950X3D. I don't like the game so I only played 2 hours into it.... FPS was pretty high the whole time though over 200fps with some brief what looked like traversal stutter or shader compilation stutter into the mid/high 100s

I believe it's DX11 only so that could be why it has odd behavior.

Maybe you were still in the tutorial. After you fly with an eagle and land on the open world - oh boy oh boy

Yes, fps should be > 200 when you got cores galore. But 8 core or below and you hit 100% utilization and mega stutter. I mean obviously it's not the most optimized game on the planet but well, that's why I like having extra cores.

 

[Onasi]

I mean, while the current debacle is rather unpleasant, it’s not like any other company, tech or otherwise, didn’t have similar situations in their history. Definitely not a reason to go “I’ll never forgive the Japanese Intel” and not considering their CPUs at all in the future.
The very idea of tech tribalism is so weird to me. Buy whatever fits your budget and answers your needs, who cares what label is on the box? Honestly, I’d say for an average user, who isn’t a mega enthusiast or a “hardcore” gamer with a 5090 who needs his 360 frames on every game including Solitaire, the CPU is probably the part you’d notice and care about the least. All modern-ish chips of respectable performance levels (so i/R5 and up) will be perfectly adequate for gaming and smooth in day to day tasks.

 

[fevgatos]

Even out of the box it's a pretty awesome cpu if Intel could have configured it that way with 0 chance of degradation the only downside is power and honestly that is up to the user to decide if that tradeoff isn't worth it... It's still the best all around CPU when you just look at straight performance to me it pretty much ties the best X3D chips in gaming and is faster in MT. It's also pretty tweakable although that can vary chip to chip by a bit. I get it a lot of people don't like running a cpu 200+ watts I don't either its the reason I don't like the out of box 7950X, but raw performance of the 14900K is great.

Im not gonna lie, if there was no bios - I would have never bought or used a 14900k. I geniunely think it's unusable out of the box. It's configured to kinda win everything and that leads to insane power draws. The 7950x is more reasonable out of the box cause they were like - okay - we don't need to win in MT and gaming, we will save that one for the 3rd parts.

But that's where the distinctions kicks in. I can make a distinction between how good a cpu is, and how good the settings it ships with are. Other people cannot seem capable of that, which leads to lengthy debates over nothing.

"Efficiency" my ass.

See, this is the example i was talking about. Can't understand the difference between efficiency and out of the box settings.

 

[Azma]

I`m happy with my 14600KF, pounding it with Prime95/CB23 almost every day since I got it @ 5.5GHz on the P-cores (No chance getting it stable at anything over that tough). No performance loss, no increse in temps or voltages. No random WEAH errors or bluescreen. One thing I`m wondering about is the new microcode... I`m still on a "old" bios, would there be possible to update the CPU in an other motherboard and then toss it in my main rig and use the "old" bios with new microcode on the cpu?

 

[john_]

I'm here to stay, I'm not jumping ship from Intel, I intend to see this through, maybe I'm alone on this one!? maybe there are others willing to go the distance? your thoughts are welcome.

Well, If I was Intel and I was going to stay at Intel I would do this.

RMA my 13th/14th gen CPU.
Get the replacement part and sell it to second hand market. If it is a sealed box I would get a good enough price.
Get a 12th gen CPU as those are NOT affected. I know it is a downgrade, but if I was near a shop with a sale on 12th gen CPUs I could get the CPU closer to my 13th/14th gen CPU that I sold, for a price that could make sense.
Keep using my system for a year.
Jump on the next Intel platform, if I really need the extra performance, a few months after that platform is released and tested.
Hope Intel doesn't do the same mistake twice in a row.

 

[Hyderz]

I wonder how cheap these cpu gonna be once in the second hand market

 

[Ivan Bliminse]

All my computer life i had been using nothing but AMD cpu's, up until three years ago when i purchased my present Intel computer and i've been just as or maybe even a little happier since my change. If i need to upgrade anytime then i'll still be on Intel.

 

[RGAFL]

When you are not getting the performance you paid for or you have to manipulate settings in the Bios to get a CPU to function or not degrade then i'm done with them for the TIME BEING. The normal PC user should be told in big neon lights that they could potentially be sitting on a ticking time bomb. There is no excuse for this debacle i'm afraid and frankly, i'm surprised more is not being made of this in the mainstream press.

 

[Outback Bronze]

I wonder how cheap these cpu gonna be once in the second hand market

Would you still buy one??

 

[john_]

I wonder how cheap these cpu gonna be once in the second hand market

Not much. Sellers don't try to sell hardware to people with knowledge of situations like this one, but to people who will just compare the price of the second hand part, to the lowest price of a new one in retail market.