INTEL, I'm here to stay

[oxrufiioxo]

See, this is the example i was talking about. Can't understand the difference between efficiency and out of the box settings.

One thing I forgot to test was how much lower performance would be at 50w vs a 7800X3D it already loses in W1Z suite at 160w.... I was curious about that and forgot. Most people when they scream about efficiency they are talking about games.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

Well, If I was Intel and I was going to stay at Intel I would do this.

RMA my 13th/14th gen CPU.
Get the replacement part and sell it to second hand market. If it is a sealed box I would get a good enough price.
Get a 12th gen CPU as those are NOT affected. I know it is a downgrade, but if I was near a shop with a sale on 12th gen CPUs I could get the CPU closer to my 13th/14th gen CPU that I sold, for a price that could make sense.
Keep using my system for a year.
Jump on the next Intel platform, if I really need the extra performance, a few months after that platform is released and tested.
Hope Intel doesn't do the same mistake twice in a row.

Makes me happy i stuck with my 12700k, it's been a trooper for nearly 3 years(in nov) I decided to wait and see what 1851 brings.

 

[fevgatos]

One thing I forgot to test was how much lower performance would be at 50w vs a 7800X3D it already loses in W1Z suite at 160w.... I was curious about that and forgot. Most people when they scream about efficiency they are talking about games.

View attachment 357462

That's exactly what I was referring to when I said it's unusable out of the box. You just don't play games on a stock 14900k unless you really really really don't care about power draw. It's configured horribly for games leading to insane power draws. After properly tuning it specifically for gaming performance power draw (for my unit at least) drops to 95w MAX at the heaviest game right now (TLOU) at 1080p with a 4090. Everything else is sitting at 30 to 70 watts.

But those same settings drop MT performance from 41k in CBR23 to 36k. So there is a tradeoff.

EG1. Although to play devils advocate you are not going to play 1080p with a 4090 - at 4k power draw is around 100w anyways so there is that as well.

 

[P4-630]

Makes me happy i stuck with my 12700k, it's been a trooper for nearly 3 years(in nov) I decided to wait and see what 1851 brings.

That's exactly what I do too...
Also my i7 12700K 5Ghz all p-cores has been running without issues.

 

[azrael]

I may be in the minority here, but I don't get how people keep forgiving Intel (and nVidia, for that matter) no matter how often they screw over their customers. I'm not just thinking about this most recent debacle, but also stuff like fusing off features to create artificial product segmentation.

As for the Raptor Lake meltdown there's absolutely no redeeming action Intel has taken so far. Two years extended warranty? So you've got two more years where you can *try* to RMA your defective processor. No one says they'll actually replace it. Intel have been aware of this problem since 2022 (watch the latest GN video on that) and they have been gaslighting everyone, including the companies they do business with.

Also remember the i225-v debacle. Still not fixed to this day. At one point Intel just released the i226 series instead. They cba fixing any longer.

Right now I have zero confidence in Intel products. I used to be a big proponent of theirs, but those days are gone. They might win me back, but that would be years down the road.

Anyone tech-affine buying a 13/14-series processor now is just asking for trouble. No sympathies from me. Those are reserved for the poor people not knowing any better (the general populace out there) who will be stuck with a defective product and probably no recourse.

 

[fevgatos]

I may be in the minority here, but I don't get how people keep forgiving Intel (and nVidia, for that matter) no matter how often they screw over their customers. I'm not just thinking about this most recent debacle, but also stuff like fusing off features to create artificial product segmentation.

As for the Raptor Lake meltdown there's absolutely no redeeming action Intel has taken so far. Two years extended warranty? So you've got two more years where you can *try* to RMA your defective processor. No one says they'll actually replace it. Intel have been aware of this problem since 2022 (watch the latest GN video on that) and they have been gaslighting everyone, including the companies they do business with.

Also remember the i225-v debacle. Still not fixed to this day. At one point Intel just released the i226 series instead. They cba fixing any longer.

Right now I have zero confidence in Intel products. I used to be a big proponent of theirs, but those days are gone. They might win me back, but that would be years down the road.

Anyone tech-affine buying a 13/14-series processor now is just asking for trouble. No sympathies from me. Those are reserved for the poor people not knowing any better (the general populace out there) who will be stuck with a defective product and probably no recourse.

By the very definition of what a company is and what it's goals are, every company is trying to screw you as much as possible. They are actively trying to get as much of your money as possible with as little effort as possible. Sadly, that doesn't just apply to intel and nvidia. If it did then guess what, people wouldn't "keep forgiving" intel and nvidia, they would just be buying amd. I did, multiple times, and multiple times they tried to screw me over, so I stopped.

Intel or nvidia hasn't tried it yet, when they do, ill evaluate my options.

 

[Vario]

Hopefully the company finds a way to recover, if it was only AMD making CPUs, innovation would stagnate very fast. Competition is necessary.

 

[iameatingjam]

Yeah my first 14700kf died within a month. Still using my second one on month like 8, though I suspect it has some degradation for reasons I wont get into. Yeah I'm not impressed with intel and while I don't plan on a new build anytime soon, I imagine my next one will be AMD unless intel pulls off some amazing turnaround. And even then I might still go amd out of spite.

And now all this with oxidation, and intel being super vague about it. Does not instill trust in the least.

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

made me cry..

 

[AusWolf]

Regardless if you own an AMD or Intel product every cpu generation should be judged on it's own merits and how it stacks up to whatever other CPU's exist in a released cpu's price range.

I'll go even further: every single individual CPU model should be judged against one's needs and its price. Even the generation number and the competition don't matter. Different CPUs within one generation can be very different (for example the 7700X and 7800X3D or 13900K and 13400), and you don't feel the competition with the CPU already in your PC.

Other than that, I agree.

 

[Hyderz]

Would you still buy one??

Depends if a combo can be had for a good price, but 13th n 14th gen is not what I’m aiming for

 

[TumbleGeorge]

One thing I forgot to test was how much lower performance would be at 50w vs a 7800X3D it already loses in W1Z suite at 160w.... I was curious about that and forgot. Most people when they scream about efficiency they are talking about games.

View attachment 357462

Yes, this graph successfully proves that an Intel processor can be more efficient than...itself. Then one looks at the 7950X's consumption on this chart and all the blue paint is stripped off the car's rusty sheet metal.

 

[Stephen.]

Nothing wrong with that, companies need to both make money to survive and also to invest in R&D it's just never good for a consumer to think any of them have our best interest in mind or for us to make excuses for any of them.

Told like it is, I couldn't have said it better.

As for me the tinkering with technology is part of what I like, it's one way of acquiring knowledge.
I am fully aware of the magnitude of issues plaguing Intel CPU and there is no excuse for that.
At the end of all these consumers should have better products ...

 

[fevgatos]

Yes, this graph successfully proves that an Intel processor can be more efficient than...itself. Then one looks at the 7950X's consumption on this chart and all the blue paint is stripped off the car's rusty sheet metal.

And another one that doesn't understand the difference between efficiency and settings.


According to TPU, the 14900k capped at 95w is FASTER than the 7950x while drawing less power. So not only is it faster, it's also more efficient. Why do we pretend this is not the case when we have the data right in front of us? I really don't get it...

Spoiler

 

[AusWolf]

Aaand, it has come to yet another pointless Intel vs AMD fight. Who could've seen it coming? /s

 

[fevgatos]

Aaand, it has come to yet another pointless Intel vs AMD fight. Who could've seen it coming? /s

No, it's a reality vs fiction fight. Has nothing to do with intel or amd frankly

 

[Hecate91]

Of course this went from a discussion into an Intel vs. AMD fight, as a consumer you should want the best both companies can offer, instead of cheerleading for your favorite team. Intel turned the power up way past the limit for several generations just to win benchmarks by a few points and its hit them really hard. I hope Intel learns from it but given how they have been handling the issues by not being honest and not issuing a full recall, I have very little trust in their products being reliable, I'd rather stick with AMD, the socket longevity is an important factor to me as well.

 

[fevgatos]

Meanwhile, in our universe

Spoiler

 

[BMfan80]

And another one that doesn't understand the difference between efficiency and settings.


According to TPU, the 14900k capped at 95w is FASTER than the 7950x while drawing less power. So not only is it faster, it's also more efficient. Why do we pretend this is not the case when we have the data right in front of us? I really don't get it...

Spoiler

You seem to think Intel gives all their customers a piece of paper or QR code to do a search for this more efficient settings.

 

[fevgatos]

You seem to think Intel gives all their customers a piece of paper or QR code to do a search for this more efficient settings.

No, they don't. But the original argument from outbackbronze at the previous page was "these cpus are incredibly efficient and cool if you tune the settings properly". Then 2 users with clearly no motivation and hatred towards intel argued against it.

So the dispute isn't whether or not intel gives a tutorial with the settings, it's whether or not these chips are efficient with the proper settings. Clearly, they are.

 

[Hecate91]

Meanwhile, in our universe

Spoiler

View attachment 357491

Meanwhile in reality the 7950X consumes less power. Of course you'd compare it to a 12th gen i9 instead of a 14th gen i9.

Spoiler

Intel Core i9-14900K Review - Reaching for the Performance Crown

Core i9-14900K is Intel's new flagship with clock speeds of up to 6 GHz. It's actually clocked even higher than the 13900KS, thanks to an extra 100 MHz when more than two cores are active. Our review confirms that Raptor Lake Refresh is amazing for both applications and gaming, if you can live...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[fevgatos]

Meanwhile in reality the 7950X consumes less power. Of course you'd compare it to a 12th gen i9 instead of a 14th gen i9.

Spoiler

https://tpucdn.com/review/intel-core-i9-14900k/images/power-multithread.png

Intel Core i9-14900K Review - Reaching for the Performance Crown

Core i9-14900K is Intel's new flagship with clock speeds of up to 6 GHz. It's actually clocked even higher than the 13900KS, thanks to an extra 100 MHz when more than two cores are active. Our review confirms that Raptor Lake Refresh is amazing for both applications and gaming, if you can live...

www.techpowerup.com

Do you understand what "increasing" power means? It means being on a lower power, and then being on higher power. This side of the planet, the only one that dramatically increased power was AMD. Even the graph you yourself posted shows it.

12th to 14th gen- 17.5% increase
AMD from 2020 (zen 3) to 2022 (zen 4) = OVER a 100% increase. The 7950x uses as much power as 2.2 5950 chips.

YES, clearly intel is the one that increases power to compete, lol. Im out, you win.

 

[freeagent]

My longest stretch with Intel was just over 10 years. I though I would miss them when I built with AMD. Honestly, this system I am using now just smokes any other system I have had before it for performance, stability, and reliability. Literal smooth sailing the entire time.

I am just about ready to build again, I hope they can pull their balls together.

 

[evernessince]

After GN and level1tech lit a fire under Intel's a$$ they seem to be doing the right thing they know at this point if they refuse RMA's it's going to blow up even more and for those unaffected which is probably the majority they get a couple years of warranty which is a win in my book.

Everything Intel has done recently suggests the exact opposite, the recent GN video makes that clear.

They've been changing their position again and again, altering their posts after the fact, ect even after media pressure. They still haven't gotten anywhere near meeting basic decency requirements like broadly informing customers of the issue. They still haven't explained why they didn't inform customers of the oxidation issue despite knowing about it for over a year. They have no system in place to remediate RMAs that have been denied wrongfully during the period Intel knew of oxidation issues. In fact there are still reports that Intel is denying RMAs for CPUs impacted by this issue on the daily.

Extending warranty to boxed processors isn't a solution because it doesn't help the vast majority of customers who have an OEM or tray CPU. In effect, extending box warranty only helps enthusiasts who are also aware of this issue, which is an extremely narrow band. On top of that it's not a fix, it's a "if your CPU breaks, based on the good graces of Intel's RMA department and after suffering downtime you might get a replacement CPU". That is VASTLY worse as compared to a recall, wherein you are guaranteed to get a replacement and around which you can plan your downtime (or completely eliminate it with a temp sub).

I want Intel to be competitive as much as anyone but that want does not outweigh the need for Intel to have a massive correction in behavior. They've been a terrible company for decades ever since they got away with bribing OEMs, they need a hurting to change their culture. People giving them an easy pass because the market needs 2 players is only going to perpetuate said bad behavior.

 

[Zach_01]

@fevgatos
The 5950X is a 142W (PPT) CPU and 7950X is a 230W one. That is +60% not +220% that you suggest.
What are you talking about?

And in my book comparing efficiency goes like this:

Set 2 different products at the same power and see who among them gets more work.
Or
Set them in such way that both do the same work and see what power each have

in other words you have to normalize 1parameter to measure/compare the other.