Swap 13700k for 7800X3D

[warriorunited]

Hello!

I have a Intel i7 13700k + Asus ROG STRIX Z790-H GAMING + Corsair Vengeance RGB DDR5 6000MHz 32GB, and after those problems with Intel degrading CPU's and now in the summer wasted of seeing that motherboard red light warning that my CPU is at 100º when i'm playing specific games are getting me wasted of having this combination and i refuse to buy an AIO just for this crappy hot CPU, when my Dark Rock Pro 4 is a beast of an air cooler.

My real question here is, what i do in my PC is 90% gaming, basically that, sometimes my Girlfriend uses my PC for some heavy renders at Archicad but it's very rare to happen, is it dumb to swap my current setup for a Ryzen 7 7800X3D and pair it with a motherboard like ATX Asus ROG Strix B650E-F Gaming WiFi, since it's new in features and already AM5 for future upgrades?

Thanks in advance for all opinions you can provide.

P.S. If this is the wrong section, please move it (System Builder's Advice??)

 

[Bill_Bright]

I say instead of complaining about a red light (which alone, does NOT indicate a problem), why not troubleshoot your cooling to find out where YOU HAVE FAILED to properly cool your computer? After all, that Intel is an excellent CPU.

Note according the Intel ARK for the i7-13700k, 100°C is the published maximum allowed Tjunction and Operating Temperature. That does not mean it is the maximum capability or that damage will occur if exceeded. Your red light is just your motherboard indicating at that sensor location, it hit 100°C.

Is the system throttling back in speed when it hits that threshold? What are your temps at idle?

For sure, hitting 100°C is disturbing. I am not saying it is okay. But hitting 100°C does NOT suggest the CPU is "crappy" (by design). It means something is defective or is not configured right.

That is a decent cooler so it is not the cooler itself, assuming it is clean, not damaged, and fans are spinning properly. But it could be a problem with the cooler mounting.

Too much TIM (thermal interface material) is a common problem. There only needs to be enough to fill the microscopic pits and valleys in the mating surfaces to push out and prevent insulating air from getting in there. Too much TIM is in the way and counterproductive to the most efficient transfer of heat. So the TIM needs to be applied in a layer that is as thin as possible, while still covering the entire die.

Did you thoroughly clean the mating surfaces of old TIM, dirt and oxidation before applying a fresh, new, as thin as possible layer of TIM?

Remember it is the case's responsibility to provide a sufficient supply of cool air flowing through and out the case. The CPU cooler need only toss the CPU's heat into that air flow. And it is the user's responsibility to set up case cooling.

The FD Meshify is an excellent case. Are the case fans working in concert or opposing each other? That is, you want the air to flow in one direction, typically front-to-back. Also, you want the CPU cooler's fan to work with that air flow, not against it. So the orientation of the CPU cooler's fan is important too. If case air flow is front-to-back, the CPU cooler's air flow should be towards the back too.

Are the case interior, vents and filters clean of heat trapping dust? Do you have decent cable management to minimize interfering with that air flow?

Also, you mention "summer". Ambient (room) temperature plays a critical role here. If your room is not climate controlled and set to a comfortable temp, that can be HUGE factor too.

If you have changed the default clocks and voltages, change them back.

Last, while the Ryzen 7 7800x3d is also an excellent CPU as seen here, replacing that i7 for that Ryzen 7 would NOT be an "upgrade", nor cheap.

Note a new motherboard also constitutes a new computer and new computers, for OS licensing purposes, require their own OS licenses. This means if your current OS license is an OEM/System Builders license, it is inextricably tied to the current motherboard and cannot "legally" be transferred to the new motherboard. Only full "retail" licenses can legally be transferred to new computers/new motherboards. So if OEM, replacing the CPU would require budgeting for a new motherboard and new OS license too.

 

[thesmokingman]

Just keep going on, no need to swap now unless you really want to. Investing in a good huge AIO will not just benefit your current setup combo but you know you can keep using it in the future. As for switching to a 7800x3d, I'd wait on that as the 9000 series is coming out soon.

 

[tabascosauz]

Hello!

I have a Intel i7 13700k + Asus ROG STRIX Z790-H GAMING + Corsair Vengeance RGB DDR5 6000MHz 32GB, and after those problems with Intel degrading CPU's and now in the summer wasted of seeing that motherboard red light warning that my CPU is at 100º when i'm playing specific games are getting me wasted of having this combination and i refuse to buy an AIO just for this crappy hot CPU, when my Dark Rock Pro 4 is a beast of an air cooler.

My real question here is, what i do in my PC is 90% gaming, basically that, sometimes my Girlfriend uses my PC for some heavy renders at Archicad but it's very rare to happen, is it dumb to swap my current setup for a Ryzen 7 7800X3D and pair it with a motherboard like ATX Asus ROG Strix B650E-F Gaming WiFi, since it's new in features and already AM5 for future upgrades?

Thanks in advance for all opinions you can provide.

P.S. If this is the wrong section, please move it (System Builder's Advice??)

It's certainly a dumb choice if you haven't actually pulled out all the stops as to cooling.

ie. snooping a bit to see why exactly you are hitting 100C in games (100 in games??), and seeing how far your 13700K sample can go with undervolting and setting a more reasonable power limit (e.g. 150-200W)

DRP4 isn't exactly class leading but it's no slouch either, it sounds like you have many more things to figure out before you consider jumping ship to 7800X3D (which is not unlike any other CPU in that you need to do more than 0 work whatsoever to optimize your experience).

 

[dgianstefani]

100 C is a setup problem not a CPU problem.

The cooler you have is arguably better than the old single fan NH-U14S used here.

Hitting 100C is expected, even with a 420mm radiator as noted in the review.

Can you point this part out?

TPU tests with a single fan air cooler.

 

[P4-630]

Even a i9 12900K would still be a great CPU...

 

[dgianstefani]

Even a i9 12900K would still be a great CPU...

Besides, it's not like Zen is designed to run cool, Zen 4 is configured to boost until it hits 95 C.

 

[TechKilledMe]

Possibly look at using a contact frame from Thermal Grizzly, with a 280MM AIO if your case supports that. 13700K is a great CPU, it just chugs the power and thus creates a lot of heat. Contact frame plus a repaste and solid AIO would be better than switching your entire build for basically a sidegrade. Although I can't speak for long term reliability. 13th and 14th gen might just all be toast in a couple years if they can't resolve the voltage / ring bus issue with microcode. But at that point I would just say wait till it happens and then switch to AMD if your CPU does die / degrade.

 

[dgianstefani]

Possibly look at using a contact frame from Thermal Grizzly, with a 280MM AIO if your case supports that. 13700K is a great CPU, it just chugs the power and thus creates a lot of heat. Contact frame plus a repaste and solid AIO would be better than switching your entire build for basically a sidegrade. Although I can't speak for long term reliability. 13th and 14th gen might just all be toast in a couple years if they can't resolve the voltage / ring bus issue with microcode. But at that point I would just say wait till it happens and then switch to AMD if your CPU does die / degrade.

Setting VCore manually rather than trusting stock, motherboard or "AI" values has been an option since release.

Experienced builders do this anyway.

FYI you can boost to 5.8 GHz with 1.4 VCore on Raptor Lake so I see no issue "limiting" it to that.

 

[Ruru]

Setting VCore manually rather than trusting stock, motherboard or "AI" values has been an option since release.

Experienced builders do this anyway.

FYI you can boost to 5.8 GHz with 1.4 VCore on Raptor Lake so I see no issue "limiting" it to that.

Negative offset is my thing, at least with Ryzen

 

[nguyen]

Buy Thermalright Contact Frame for like 5usd, check the thermal paste application when you get the chance.

I'm running 13700KF at 5.4ghz all-cores, -0.03v offset on a ID-Cooling SE-226 cooler, with ambient temp at 30C I have never seen CPU temp over 80C

 

[evernessince]

How long has this 13700K been in use for?

If it's for any period greater than 3 months I would RMA the CPU simply because there's a 50 / 50 chance the CPU will exhibit rapid degradation.

Normally moving from a 13700K to a 7800X3D would be a waste of time but frankly I could understand doing so to avoid having to deal with Intel's issues given what's come to light recently.

 

[Bill_Bright]

If it's for any period greater than 3 months I would RMA the CPU simply because there's a 50 / 50 chance the CPU will exhibit rapid degradation.

Huh? You cannot RMA a CPU simply because it hits some temp when pressed hard unless you can prove the high temp is due to a defect or you lie (commit fraud!) when seeking replacement. Nor can you RMA a CPU because there is a chance it might fail in the future.

 

[evernessince]

Huh? You cannot RMA a CPU simply because it hits some temp when pressed hard unless you can prove the high temp is due to a defect or you lie (commit fraud!) when seeking replacement. Nor can you RMA a CPU because there is a chance it might fail in the future.

This has nothing to do with the temps he posted and everything to do with the fact that Intel publicly stated that 65w 13th and 14th gen CPUs are impacted by the micro-code bug which causes permanent degradation. The 13700K, 13900K, 14900K, and 14700K of which have the highest failure rate.

As GN pointed out, people with affected CPUs should RMA out of an abundance of caution.

In addition, he has a 13th gen CPU which may also be impacted by potential oxidation issues which Intel has yet to provide affected serial numbers for. Waiting for something to happen is silly, it's a defective product.

 

[Tomgang]

If the cpu is not defect. I would lower maximum wattage the cpu is allowed to use in bios or with intel extreme tune software. That will make the cpu less hot, but also degrade performance a bit. Then live with it for now. Also note Your cpu cooler is good, but it is rated to max 250 watt tdp and the cpu pl2 max turbo power is 253 watt when the cpu runs stock. So even a stock cpu is maxi out your cooler max capacity. So its not so wondering that your cpu reach 100 c, even if it runs stock. So in short, while your cooler is good, its not optimal for a 13700K do to miss match power consumption and cooling capacity. You might want to check thermal paste conditions as well. If its dried up, it will not perform well. And with the high temp this cpu seeing, thermal paste dries out faster than a cpu running at lower temperature.

If you can't live with lower wattage use, i would deffently wait changing cpu until amd zen 5 3d model come (rumers says coming september or October this year together with the new 800 serie am5 motherboards).

Zen 4 and zen 4 3D is on its last leg in its lifespan. I just saying because i would hate to buy something now and only in a few months new cpu's comes out.

 

[Bill_Bright]

This has nothing to do with the temps he posted and everything to do with the fact that Intel publicly stated that 65w 13th and 14th gen CPUs are impacted by the micro-code bug which causes permanent degradation.

Again, huh?

Read the Intel ARK for the OP's CPU. It is NOT a 65W CPU. It is a 125W.

And again, you cannot RMA a device just because it might fail in the future.

Plus the micro-code problems you noted caused instability and crashing issues. The OP did NOT report instability or crashing issues. He only complained about high heat. Nothing in the reports about the micro-code bug indicates high temps alone are a symptom of that micro-code bug.

Last, according to Tom's HW, Intel has identified the problem and is expected to release a patch in the next couple weeks. Sadly, it will not fix already damaged CPUs caused by this micro-code bug, but again, the OP has not suggested this has anything to do with that bug.

Now in the future, if such stability issue surfaces, the good news is Intel has extended the warranty for the OP's CPU, as seen here.

 

[Devon68]

Absolutely would not switch. Too much investment needed. I'd rather go into the motherboard settings and just limit the cpu wattage a bit. So what if it does not boost to max, if it means it can live longer I would sacrifice a few fps.

 

[R0H1T]

If you can get a full refund for the i7 then I say go for it. You would likely be able to upgrade to zen6 a couple of years from now & the platform itself should last 3-5 years more! Ideally I wouldn't do it unless I had (major) stability issues.

13th and 14th gen CPUs are impacted by the micro-code bug which causes permanent degradation.

These are unrelated issues though probably not totally exclusive of each other.

 

[evernessince]

Again, huh?

Read the Intel ARK for the OP's CPU. It is NOT a 65W CPU. It is a 125W.

65w and up. As I pointed out, the 13700K, 13900K, 14700K, and 14900K have a particularly high rate of being effected. Have you not been following the issue?

And again, you cannot RMA a device just because it might fail in the future.

He'd be RMAing because his CPU because it has a defect and damage caused by voltage degradation is permanent. As I pointed out, Intel publicly stated that all CPUs 65w and up are impacted. By Intel's own words he is eligible for an RMA

Plus the micro-code problems you noted caused instability and crashing issues. The OP did NOT report instability or crashing issues. He only complained about high heat. Nothing in the reports about the micro-code bug indicates high temps alone are a symptom of that micro-code bug.

No, the micro-code problems cause instability after degradation reaches a certain point. Not having crashing absolutely does not mean that degradation hasn't occurred. This is the primary issue with Intel not starting a recall, there will be hundreds of thousands of people with Intel CPUs that have suffered silent degradation as a result of this problem and will only realize after their warranty has expired or at a later date. Even in the best case scenario, you have shaven years off the life of your CPU.

Last, according to Tom's HW, Intel has identified the problem and is expected to release a patch in the next couple weeks. Sadly, it will not fix already damaged CPUs caused by this micro-code bug, but again, the OP has not suggested this has anything to do with that bug.

Releasing a patch that lower voltages is not a fix to hardware damage. It only stops further damage.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Buy a competent heatsink instead? This is like "my car ran out of gas. I better buy a whole new engine for it". Are you sure you're not intimidated because of all the FUD spread regarding these chips lately? What nonsense.

65w and up. As I pointed out, the 13700K, 13900K, 14700K, and 14900K have a particularly high rate of being effected. Have you not been following the issue?

To be precise - Raptor Lake processors. Issue happens on 35W T SKUs as well. The lower end CPUs that are badged as 13/14th but actually contain Alder Lake 12th gen silicon (i3, lesser i5 SKUs) are immune to the problem. But this isn't relevant to the case at hand.

 

[evernessince]

These are unrelated issues though probably not totally exclusive of each other.

Micro-code causing excessive voltage would be directly related to degradation. As per TPU's own article:

"It has found that faulty processor microcode has been causing the processors to operate under excessive core voltages, leading to their structural degradation over time."

Intel Statement on 13th and 14th Gen Core Instability: Faulty Microcode Causes Excessive Voltages, Fix Out Soon

Long-term reliability issues continue to plague Intel's 13th Gen and 14th Gen Core desktop processors based on the "Raptor Lake" microarchitecture, with users complaining that their processors have become unstable with heavy processing workloads, such as games. This includes the chips that have...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[R0H1T]

This is like "my car ran out of gas. I better buy a whole new engine for it".

Buy an Tesla EV

 

[warriorunited]

Ok guys, there's some misleading here.

One year ago, i created this thread here , it was a huge fight to put the CPU running fresh, and i've managed to do it when i swaped my CPU cooler to Dark Rock Pro 4 and some settings (basic stuff) in BIOS.

Now, another situation, my motherboard, like i said it's this one: https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-z790-h-gaming-wifi-model/helpdesk_bios/
I was running the BIOS ROG STRIX Z790-H GAMING WIFI BIOS 2102, until some days ago, i've upgraded the BIOS to the most recent one 2402, and then the CPU started to overheat again, a lot of settings (new ones) changed in BIOS interface, i tried to apply the same settings i had before the update and now i just can't stabilize the CPU again.

And yes, the thermal paste is correctly applied, the airflow is correct and i have a better airflow case then i had before when i created that thread. I'm just wasted of this because i don't have time and patience to be around the settings and the CPU all the time just to keep it fresh.

 

[Hecate91]

More like the engine is known for possible failure, than the car running out of gas. I agree with the comments of returning it if possible, or doing an RMA.

 

[Bill_Bright]

evernessince and others who are suggesting this is related to the micro-code bug are jumping to unfounded conclusions!

I say again, the OP has NOT indicated he is experiencing any instability or crashing problems.

Therefore, those advising he RMA the CPU are giving bad, or at least premature advice!

some days ago, i've upgraded the BIOS to the most recent one 2402, and then the CPU started to overheat

Again, no reports of instability issues and the heat issue appears to only have resurfaced after this BIOS update. That does not suggest a micro-code issue.

If you can get a full refund for the i7 then I say go for it. You would likely be able to upgrade to zen6

Except moving to a Zen6 processor would also require a totally different motherboard and possibly a new OS license too. A full refund on the i7 would hardly cover that.

Buy a competent heatsink instead?

Nah! With proper case cooling his Dark Rock Pro 4 cooler is more than capable of providing enough cooling.