Intel Core i9-13980HX Undervolt - Observations and Questions

[unclewebb]

if it's safe to just do this when I'm gaming

Using Disable Turbo is safe.

Avoid posting the same question twice. That just creates more work for me.

 

[Darthsanzodius]

Using Disable Turbo is safe.

Avoid posting the same question twice. That just creates more work for me.

Thanks Sorry bout that

 

[Manix]

Hey @unclewebb ! Thanks a lot for this powerful tool

I got a new i9-13980hx in my Alienware M18 and I am starting the undervolting work, let me know if you still want someone to do some tests with the 800mhz mv boost and report back!

Yet I started by undervolting the Core, P Cache and E Cache to the same undervolt values and it seems it was an error. I looked one youtube vid(yeah I know you said it's dumb to do any change you don't understand based on youtube vids) haha but I screwed up something. The video said to keep both core and cache uv to the same offset, now I will try to do lower mv on core than p cache and won't touch e cache anymore.

The video that induced me in error said to max out the iccmax value, I did so for the core and p cache but it crashed, then I tried to delete the .ini config file and even get a fresh version of ThrottleStop but some settings seems to remain, is that possible? The iccmax value for the core went back to 275 but the iccmax for the p cache stayed at maximum 511, is this normal?

Thanks for your time! Let me know if you want me to do any test with the i9-13980hx

 

[THEBOSS619]

Has anyone tried using this feature on their HX processors?

View attachment 304186

This allows a person to increase the voltage at the low end of the voltage curve. Adding 100 mV to the low end might allow you to offset undervolt further for better full load temperatures or performance. This feature might help reduce any light load stability issues.

I do not own a HX processor so I have never had a chance to test this theory out. Do some Cinebench testing to see if there is any real world improvement.

That is what I noticed during testing and from user feedback. Light load instability when undervolting too much is much more common than full load stability problems.

The regular H series CPUs do not support this new ThrottleStop feature. This could be a very useful feature for the HX processors. Imagine being able to reliably run a -180 mV offset undervolt with no worries about light load stability. That would be wonderful.

To be honest, this feature allowed me to go further with undervolting, Usually when I undervolt CPU core to -185mv... I would crash when light loaded immediately so I have to dial back to -160mv instead.

But with mV Boost @ 800 Mhz feature... I was able to use -185mv without crash when light loaded. I have got 13650hx.

I specifically used 185 on mV Boost @ 800 Mhz so that it uses stock idle voltages when idling while I get to enjoy -185.5mv undervolt under load or gaming best of the both worlds!
So yes... this feature works on Intel 13th gen wonderfully well. Thanks to you @unclewebb

 

[unclewebb]

this feature works on Intel 13th gen wonderfully well

Thanks. I always appreciate getting some real world feedback.

You might want to clear the Thermal Velocity Boost box. When this box is checked, it tells the CPU to throttle 100 MHz when it reaches about 70°C which is kind of pointless. Intel using the Boost word for a feature that causes throttling is counter intuitive. (aka. shady)

 

[highestgnome]

To be honest, this feature allowed me to go further with undervolting, Usually when I undervolt CPU core to -185mv... I would crash when light loaded immediately so I have to dial back to -160mv instead.

But with mV Boost @ 800 Mhz feature... I was able to use -185mv without crash when light loaded. I have got 13650hx.
View attachment 326068
I specifically used 185 on mV Boost @ 800 Mhz so that it uses stock idle voltages when idling while I get to enjoy -185.5mv undervolt under load or gaming best of the both worlds!
So yes... this feature works on Intel 13th gen wonderfully well. Thanks to you @unclewebb

Heyyy doing this finally resolved my RING EDP yellow notification I got 24/7!
Now to figure out why the system is so jittery. Debating on a reinstall of Windows.

System is a Razer Blade 16 with i9 13950HX

 

[THEBOSS619]

Heyyy doing this finally resolved my RING EDP yellow notification I got 24/7!
Now to figure out why the system is so jittery. Debating on a reinstall of Windows.

System is a Razer Blade 16 with i9 13950HX

Hey! Glad this resolved it for you Jittery might be too much filesystem corruption so try repairing those before reinstalling windows, might save you time reconfiguring all over again.
For the sake of talking about undervolting... I have managed to have further more undervolting for my i7 13650HX

Currently new undervolt:

• CPU Core= -185.5mv
• Intel GPU= -40mv
• CPU P Cache= Previously was -125mv now... -250mv
• iGPU Unslice= -40mv
• System Agent= -40mv
• CPU E Cache= Previously was -137.7mv now... -147.5mv

I was shocked when I can go this deep with CPU P Cache/Ring because I tried to go higher like -270mv and I got BSOD after 5 min. but I tried to go -260mv stable but I would see jitters so... finally went with -250mv was stable and it is been over 4 months now stable on everything I throw at this CPU.

Of course obviously no OC just using stock frequencies with undervolt

 

[highestgnome]

Hey! Glad this resolved it for you Jittery might be too much filesystem corruption so try repairing those before reinstalling windows, might save you time reconfiguring all over again.
For the sake of talking about undervolting... I have managed to have further more undervolting for my i7 13650HX

Currently new undervolt:

• CPU Core= -185.5mv
• Intel GPU= -40mv
• CPU P Cache= Previously was -125mv now... -250mv
• iGPU Unslice= -40mv
• System Agent= -40mv
• CPU E Cache= Previously was -137.7mv now... -147.5mv

I was shocked when I can go this deep with CPU P Cache/Ring because I tried to go higher like -270mv and I got BSOD after 5 min. but I tried to go -260mv stable but I would see jitters so... finally went with -250mv was stable and it is been over 4 months now stable on everything I throw at this CPU.

Of course obviously no OC just using stock frequencies with undervolt

Can't say for sure. I've had this laptop since March and it wasn't until recently(last 2-3 weeks) that this jittery issue started happening. That's when I decided to start toying with undervolting seeing if its related. I've had nonstop thermal problems since day one. Repasted the CPU and GPU and put new thermal pads on the chips. Temps dropped roughly 10-20c but still get occasional thermal throttle. The jittery portion is new(ish). Ran chkdsk and sfc, chkdsk found no issues and SFC found and repaired items, but no fix. No idea what it could be aside from a sloppy image from Razer or I have a failing i9(which is my guess). Already have a ticket open with Razer but need to run through reloading Windows and seeing if the issue persists.

The worst part is, I don't game on this laptop and I do nothing truly demanding. I use it for work, thats it. Teams, Office apps, youtube and HWINFO, thats all I basically use. I see no reason for the jittery responses at all. Even bought a sealed laptop dock with a hefty fan for cooling. Ambient temp sits around 77-80F which I struggle to bring down due to to poor HVAC in my house.

Drivers are up to date, windows is up to date, bios is up to date, updated the EMC the other day since a new one was released, all to no avail. Idle temps would sit around 50-60c until I did the repaste, then I got it down to around 40-45c idle and now after undervolting it hits 38c+/-.

 

[unclewebb]

@highestgnome

The top middle of the FIVR window shows that Undervolt Protection has been enabled by the BIOS. I am not sure if this used to work once upon a time. A BIOS update might have disabled the undervolt feature. The FIVR monitoring table shows that all of the voltage offsets are at 0.000. CPU voltage control is definitely not working.

I am not sure if the mV Boost feature works when Undervolt Protection is enabled. Probably not. If you can find an older BIOS version and if you are feeling lucky, try installing that. It is common for early BIOS versions to work correctly while the latest BIOS versions force Undervolt Protection to be enabled.

 

[highestgnome]

@highestgnome

The top middle of the FIVR window shows that Undervolt Protection has been enabled by the BIOS. I am not sure if this used to work once upon a time. A BIOS update might have disabled the undervolt feature. The FIVR monitoring table shows that all of the voltage offsets are at 0.000. CPU voltage control is definitely not working.

I am not sure if the mV Boost feature works when Undervolt Protection is enabled. Probably not. If you can find an older BIOS version and if you are feeling lucky, try installing that. It is common for early BIOS versions to work correctly while the latest BIOS versions force Undervolt Protection to be enabled.

View attachment 357656

You know what the funny thing is. If I go into the bios and disable undervolt protection, then all the utilities stop working, xtu and razer's overclock software. However, when enabled, they all work.
My shift ends in 30mins, I'll try disabling and seeing if it changes. But as it stands right now, when I set all the settings HWINFO shows the cpu drop and voltage drop. Right now idle is sitting at .891v 2.1ghz where as before it would float at 1.3-1.5v. Not entirely sure if this means anything or not?

 

[unclewebb]

when I set all the settings HWINFO shows the cpu drop and voltage drop

HWiNFO might have shown that once upon a time but it should not be showing that now. HWiNFO does not read the offset voltage data in real time so you might need to restart HWiNFO to get it to update its data.

Not entirely sure if this means anything or not?

You cannot use idle data to judge whether CPU voltage control is working or not.

ThrottleStop updates the monitoring table data in real time every second. It confirms that no undervolt is being applied.

CPU P Cache

= Previously was -125mv now... -250mv

That is a miracle. Too bad more people do not realize what is possible. After the 35% drop in the share price of Intel during the last week, maybe it is time to fire the CPU voltage team. They do not seem to know what they are doing. The old, "we will just keep adding more voltage to make it stable" has proven to be a big and costly mistake.

 

[highestgnome]

HWiNFO might have shown that once upon a time but it should not be showing that now. HWiNFO does not read the offset voltage data in real time so you might need to restart HWiNFO to get it to update its data.


You cannot use idle data to judge whether CPU voltage control is working or not.

ThrottleStop updates the monitoring table data in real time every second. It confirms that no undervolt is being applied.

View attachment 357657





That is a miracle. Too bad more people do not realize what is possible. After the 35% drop in the share price of Intel during the last week, maybe it is time to fire the CPU voltage team. They do not seem to know what they are doing. The old, "we will just keep adding more voltage to make it stable" has proven to be a big and costly mistake.

Went and disabled the undervolt protection, looks like Throttlestop is the only app that works like that, which is fine, I don't need xtu or razer's overlock software running. However, the offset never changed no matter what I changed. System is struggling hard to run cinebench hitting full thermal throttle as well as PL2 and EDP other. Wattage capped around 93W and I cut the stress. I'm going to do a bios reset and reload windows before I continue attempting anything. Maybe inspect my thermal paste and clean/put fresh paste on just in case.
Appreciate your help!

 

[THEBOSS619]

That is a miracle. Too bad more people do not realize what is possible. After the 35% drop in the share price of Intel during the last week, maybe it is time to fire the CPU voltage team. They do not seem to know what they are doing. The old, "we will just keep adding more voltage to make it stable" has proven to be a big and costly mistake.

Intel did lots of mistakes on the past but... this time... it's really gonna bite them... hard like... really hard.

For the sake of entertainment... this made me chuckle about Intel fiasco that is happening...

 

[unclewebb]

However, the offset never changed no matter what I changed.

Does ThrottleStop still show that Undervolt Protection is enabled?

If XTU or Razer's software actually works to control the voltage, the offset undervolt has to be applied by the BIOS before Windows loads up. If you make a voltage change in either program when Undervolt Protection is enabled, you will need to reboot each time before that voltage change request can be sent to the CPU. Does either program work correctly?

If Undervolt Protection is always enabled then you cannot use ThrottleStop to undervolt your CPU. Try undervolting with one of those other programs, run Cinebench and try to determine if an undervolt is being applied or not.

 

[highestgnome]

Does ThrottleStop still show that Undervolt Protection is enabled?

If XTU or Razer's software actually works to control the voltage, the offset undervolt has to be applied by the BIOS before Windows loads up. If you make a voltage change in either program when Undervolt Protection is enabled, you will need to reboot each time before that voltage change request can be sent to the CPU. Does either program work correctly?

If Undervolt Protection is always enabled then you cannot use ThrottleStop to undervolt your CPU. Try undervolting with one of those other programs, run Cinebench and try to determine if an undervolt is being applied or not.

So interestingly enough, when I open XTU it says undervolt protection must be disabled. When I open razer synapse it says the same thing. The bios is currently set to have undervolt protection disabled and the ThrottleStop software updated the view from "Undervolt protection" to "FIVR Control". Something is odd about this system. Whenever I make any level of adjustment in the FIVR control nothing seems to change on the system at all except maybe the PL limits I set. If I drop the PL limits low, it bottle necks the system as expected, when I set them to the recommended settings PL1 55 and PL2 157 I still get PL2 triggers when running the throttle stop stress test. When I run cinebench, it fails to run anywhere remotely close to how my desktop runs(more or less expected also an AMD build), it seemingly just locks up and system becomes extremely slow. I'm responding on my desktop right now, but I can send some screenshots in a few minutes.

Edit: for what its worth, I figured out my jittery issue too. It would be the damn batteries in the mouse on their way out >.<

 

[highestgnome]

XTU says it needs undervolt protection enabled* see screenshot.
Razer Synapse says it needs undervolt protection disabled(which it is, also see screenshot).
Also threw in a picture of the Throttlestop showing that undervolt protection is now disabled. You'll also be able to see that the offset's haven't changed at all.

 

[highestgnome]

Went ahead and ran cinebench a few times. Here's a log attached. I made some alterations between the times I ran cinebench, however it doesn't seem like anything changed. Curious if Razer locked out the settings somehow.

 

[unclewebb]

When ThrottleStop shows a bunch of odd ball looking numbers in its monitoring table, that usually means Windows core isolation memory integrity has been enabled. This safety feature prevents all software from accessing the CPU voltage control register to either read or write information to it. You can also not run any software that depends on virtualization such as WSL2. Read the link in my signature. Post a screenshot of the Windows Features window if you are not sure what Windows feature might be interfering with CPU voltage control.

After disabling VBS, exit ThrottleStop, delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file and reboot.

The default 55W PL1 power limit has your high performance CPU running like a slug. An HX processor needs up to 3 times that much power to run at full speed when fully loaded. Most Razer laptops do not have a chance of cooling that kind of CPU heat.

 

[highestgnome]

View attachment 357734

When ThrottleStop shows a bunch of odd ball looking numbers in its monitoring table, that usually means Windows core isolation memory integrity has been enabled. This safety feature prevents all software from accessing the CPU voltage control register to either read or write information to it. You can also not run any software that depends on virtualization such as WSL2. Read the link in my signature. Post a screenshot of the Windows Features window if you are not sure what Windows feature might be interfering with CPU voltage control.

After disabling VBS, exit ThrottleStop, delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file and reboot.

The default 55W PL1 power limit has your high performance CPU running like a slug. An HX processor needs up to 3 times that much power to run at full speed when fully loaded. Most Razer laptops do not have a chance of cooling that kind of CPU heat.

Turned off core isolation, didnt work. Go to registry, can't find the key specified, attempted to search the key, cant find it, attempted to make the key, says the key already exists. Went to GPO and disabled there, still runs. Verified there is no hyperv or virtual machine platforms installed.

I am running windows 11 enterprise and do use bitlocker if either of this makes a difference.

Edit: Did another restart, the reg key now shows and it is set to 0 however, VBS is still running.

Edit 2: Not sure if something changed with Windows shutdown/restart settings, but restart wouldn't allow the settings to update. I performed a shutdown and fresh boot and now VBS is disabled. I do have quick start up disabled as that creates enough problems as it is. Now I finally see "Default" for the voltage settings.

 

[unclewebb]

Now I finally see "Default" for the voltage settings.

Microsoft and Intel really like to discourage casual users from adjusting the CPU voltage.

Does the FIVR window still show Undervolt Protection or is that fixed now too?

 

[highestgnome]

Microsoft and Intel really like to discourage casual users from adjusting the CPU voltage.

Does the FIVR window still show Undervolt Protection or is that fixed now too?

No that is fixed. I now see the offset's adjusting with my changes. So tinkering a little bit, then I'll send some new screenshots as well as a new log file if you could review them for me

 

[highestgnome]

This was my last test which ran the longest so far. The last two tests, one resulted in total freeze second resulted in BSOD. When I ran cinebench on this test it closed the application while trying to load the second render. Any suggestions on changes to make? I have not changed the TPL settings at all yet other than setting Power Limit 4 to 0.

 

[unclewebb]

If your computer is crashing then your voltages are not stable. CPUs are unique. You cannot just copy someone else's voltages.

I would go back to square one. I would set the Intel GPU, iGPU Unslice and System Agent back to 0.0000. Those three voltages rarely need to be adjusted. I would also set the E Cache back to 0.0000. Save that one until you get the two important voltages adjusted. Set the Core and P Cache to -100 mV and start testing from there. You need to find a starting point where you are 100% certain that you are 100% stable.

In the TPL window I would check the MMIO Lock box which is near the top right of that window. I would clear Disable Controls and I would set PL1 and PL2 to 130W. Long term, that is about all the cooling your laptop can handle.

 

[highestgnome]

If your computer is crashing then your voltages are not stable. CPUs are unique. You cannot just copy someone else's voltages.

I would go back to square one. I would set the Intel GPU, iGPU Unslice and System Agent back to 0.0000. Those three voltages rarely need to be adjusted. I would also set the E Cache back to 0.0000. Save that one until you get the two important voltages adjusted. Set the Core and P Cache to -100 mV and start testing from there. You need to find a starting point where you are 100% certain that you are 100% stable.

In the TPL window I would check the MMIO Lock box which is near the top right of that window. I would clear Disable Controls and I would set PL1 and PL2 to 130W. Long term, that is about all the cooling your laptop can handle.

@unclewebb I got myself to a stable point with -140.6mV, ran cinebench several times, zero crashes or freezes. That jittery issue I had before has seemed to return(with or without undervolting), so I guess it wasn't battery related in the wireless mouse. I want to reload Windows as I need to do this for testing before pursuing RMA with Razer. Just wanted to confirm, can I backup the ini file and migrate that to a new windows installation?

At this point I would really rather just return this laptop if I can get Microcenter to accept a return outside the 60 day return policy, but I need to pursue RMA first with razer.

My Lenovo T16 G1 with a 12th gen i7 runs better then this i9 seems like it ever will. Its sad that buying a $3k laptop runs so poorly.

 

[unclewebb]

can I backup the ini file and migrate that to a new windows installation?

That should be OK as long as the ThrottleStop folder is in the same location. Best to create a new INI if you decide to move ThrottleStop to a different folder or different drive.

Try running LatencyMon

Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks

LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks

www.resplendence.com

It might show a badly behaving driver or something like that which could be causing your jitter issues.