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We found the Missing Performance: Zen 5 Tested with SMT Disabled

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Thanks @W1zzard the amount of work you put into this is amazing.

Hats off to you!

Awesome content as always.
 
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Disabling SMT to increase performance in the gaming community has been around for a long time and something I've personally done for years, however it never was this big of a gap. Disabling SMT will almost always reduce microstuttering/stuttering at the loss of a bit of average FPS. The most important distinction here however is W11. The thread scheduler in W11 was the biggest change from W10 and while Intel said you had to swap to W11 to utilize their CPUs properly, they work under W10 too.

While In a lot of cases loading up the 'best' cores the most helps for overall throughput, it's not a best case scenario for latency sensitive applications. Games are very much latency sensitive as well as throughput sensitive.

Taking this further, you'll actually find that having CPPC on also reduces performance. While it might help with one specific application that is utilizing one core, windows will over load the 'best' cores further exasperating this situation. While you can't turn CPPC off anymore in modern Ryzens specifically, you can by disabling other power management options which has pros/cons to it. CPPC is under a power management feature called PSS Support (which is a few features, but CPPC is what we want).

After disabling CPPC you'll see thread loading to be more uniform across all cores. This is important for multithreaded and even single threaded applications. So a bunch of extra threads aren't being thrown on a CPU that might be all of 5% faster, while other cores have plenty of headroom available.

CPPC/SMT/W11 thread scheduler are all things at work here and need to be tweaked.

Also going to point out using Process Lasso or other applications to 'band aid' a game to every other core is NOT the same thing as natively disabling SMT. Windows will still try to utilize the other half of the virtual core creating thread contention. There are a lot of windows processes that can't be touched, if people using lasso even bother with everything that can outside of the game.
 
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I use a 5800X3D and I have SMT disabled, because Elden Ring has stutter and disabeling it reduces those by a lot.
 
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These processors are clearly still a work in process.
 
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I didn't know those *X3D CPUs are so good for gaming. Where is the 9800X3D?
 
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Disabling SMT to increase performance in the gaming community has been around for a long time and something I've personally done for years, however it never was this big of a gap. Disabling SMT will almost always reduce microstuttering/stuttering at the loss of a bit of average FPS. The most important distinction here however is W11. The thread scheduler in W11 was the biggest change from W10 and while Intel said you had to swap to W11 to utilize their CPUs properly, they work under W10 too.

While In a lot of cases loading up the 'best' cores the most helps for overall throughput, it's not a best case scenario for latency sensitive applications. Games are very much latency sensitive as well as throughput sensitive.

Taking this further, you'll actually find that having CPPC on also reduces performance. While it might help with one specific application that is utilizing one core, windows will over load the 'best' cores further exasperating this situation. While you can't turn CPPC off anymore in modern Ryzens specifically, you can by disabling other power management options which has pros/cons to it. CPPC is under a power management feature called PSS Support (which is a few features, but CPPC is what we want).

After disabling CPPC you'll see thread loading to be more uniform across all cores. This is important for multithreaded and even single threaded applications. So a bunch of extra threads aren't being thrown on a CPU that might be all of 5% faster, while other cores have plenty of headroom available.

CPPC/SMT/W11 thread scheduler are all things at work here and need to be tweaked.

Also going to point out using Process Lasso or other applications to 'band aid' a game to every other core is NOT the same thing as natively disabling SMT. Windows will still try to utilize the other half of the virtual core creating thread contention. There are a lot of windows processes that can't be touched, if people using lasso even bother with everything that can outside of the game.


Actually the problem here is that if you are inclined to disable SMT on a 9700X to get it up to 14700K levels of gaming performance and thus cripple its anemic productivity performance even more, then you didn't care about productivity performance in the first place and prize gaming performance above all.

And that just means you should have bought a 7800X3D or 7950X3D in the first place. They are crippled in productivity as well, but nothing matches them for gaming.

None of this helps the case for the 9700X/9600X. They just don't have a place in the market IMO.
 
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I've never let windows schedule my cpus it's dumb as shite....

Been using process lasso for a while
On my 7950X3D these are my profiles

1 with cache only CCD for games
2 without smt on the cache ccd for games
3 for background process on the secondary ccd
4 for things that benefit from all core workloads.

Once setup it takes all of 1m to set a profile to a particular program.

Should anyone have to do that no but if you want the most out of your hardware it's just the reality.
 
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I've never let windows schedule my cpus it's dumb as shite....

Been using process lasso for a while
On my 7950X3D these are my profiles

1 with cache only CCD for games
2 without smt on the cache ccd for games
3 for background process on the secondary ccd
4 for things that benefit from all core workloads.

Once setup it takes all of 1m to set a profile to a particular program.

Should anyone have to do that no but if you want the most out of your hardware it's just the reality.
You shouldn't, but let's face it, now that we're in the heterogeneous CPU world, more effort probably needs to go into this part of the tweaking process. The way CPUs boost now and essentially overclock themselves, what you're doing sounds like more the thing enthusiasts should be considering to get the best performance. Maybe someday, devs will work this "preferred CPU setup" into their products, but there's a lot of CPU variation to plan for, and it's probably not worth the trouble for the small gains most will get out it.
 
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AMD needs the chipset driver magic once again for scheduling games properly..lol..
 
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