Zen 3 safe voltages PBO/Manual

[RaceT3ch]

Hey guys, I was just wondering what voltage would be safe for all core workloads, because PBO likes to go to 1.32 volts at 4.5ghz, despite being able to get it down to 1.11 volts manually and still be stable.
Is my PBO doing something wrong or is that normal?

 

[A Computer Guy]

Hey guys, I was just wondering what voltage would be safe for all core workloads, because PBO likes to go to 1.32 volts at 4.5ghz, despite being able to get it down to 1.11 volts manually and still be stable.
Is my PBO doing something wrong or is that normal?

That's going to be a bit different from CPU to CPU. As long as you arn't overriding a setting that bypasses the CPU's control (such as fixed voltage, fixed frequency, and I think scalar >1x) you should be fine. I think for Ryzen it was called FIT. Simply adjusting the PPT,TDC,EDC limiters and thermal throttle the CPU will remain in control adjusting voltages as needed at a rate software really can't keep up with. If you have a dangerous motherboard like the Asrock x470 Master SLI/ac , raising the limits of PPT,TDC,EDC to the sky might just melt your socket.

Just let the CPU control the voltage, it knows what to do. You can use PBO & Curve Optimizer to tune the CPU's performance and voltage.

 

[RaceT3ch]

That's going to be a bit different from CPU to CPU. As long as you arn't overriding a setting that bypasses the CPU's control (such as fixed voltage, fixed frequency, and I think scalar >1x) you should be fine. I think for Ryzen it was called FIT. Simply adjusting the PPT,TDC,EDC limiters and thermal throttle the CPU will remain in control adjusting voltages as needed at a rate software really can't keep up with. If you have a dangerous motherboard like the Asrock x470 Master SLI/ac , raising the limits of PPT,TDC,EDC to the sky might just melt your socket.

Just let the CPU control the voltage, it knows what to do. You can use PBO & Curve Optimizer to tune the CPU's performance and voltage.

Last time I did that it crashed cause it drew back too much voltage on low frequencies.
Gigabyte X370 Gaming 5 is safe right?

 

[A Computer Guy]

Last time I did that it crashed cause it drew back too much voltage on low frequencies.

It's a balancing act. Too much negative curve and cores will crash so you have to find the right value (or values per core) then backoff a little more to get off the bleeding edge. Ryzen Master can find values but it's never given me consistent or reliable results for me so I gave up using it. More manual effort needed. If I remember correctly people use something called core cycler for testing curve optimizer settings.

 

[DropToasterInTub]

That's pretty typical for PBO. PBO on its own just throws more voltage at the CPU in hopes of it boosting higher, but in almost every case, Zen doesn't need more voltage to run quicker. If anything, it needs less; which is why Curve Optimizer has always been the go-to tool for overclocking Zen CPUs.

Absolute max safe voltage for Zen 3 IMO would probably be 1.45v. However, running that voltage on an all-core workload with AVX will immediately cause the CPU to thermal throttle. Too much heat density on such a small die. Zen 4's already a struggle with cooling at just 1.2v all-core.

 

[RaceT3ch]

That's pretty typical for PBO. PBO on its own just throws more voltage at the CPU in hopes of it boosting higher, but in almost every case, Zen doesn't need more voltage to run quicker. If anything, it needs less; which is why Curve Optimizer has always been the go-to tool for overclocking Zen CPUs.

Absolute max safe voltage for Zen 3 IMO would probably be 1.45v. However, running that voltage on an all-core workload with AVX will immediately cause the CPU to thermal throttle. Too much heat density on such a small die. Zen 4's already a struggle with cooling at just 1.2v all-core.

How ironic, it runs into a power limit before temps/clock speed runs out. Shame PBO doesn't go higher than 4.55 with that voltage, It seems to run at 4.7 fine since I have an overkill 240mm aio.

 

[A Computer Guy]

How ironic, it runs into a power limit before temps/clock speed runs out. Shame PBO doesn't go higher than 4.55 with that voltage, It seems to run at 4.7 fine since I have an overkill 240mm aio.

My understanding is Ryzen hits thermal limits first in conjunction with the voltage/frequency curve. If you manually overclock (voltage and frequency) you are essentially throwing the CPU safety measures out the window and you need to be careful not to push too much current through the CPU in all core workloads.

 

[Zach_01]

That's pretty typical for PBO. PBO on its own just throws more voltage at the CPU in hopes of it boosting higher, but in almost every case, Zen doesn't need more voltage to run quicker. If anything, it needs less; which is why Curve Optimizer has always been the go-to tool for overclocking Zen CPUs.

Absolute max safe voltage for Zen 3 IMO would probably be 1.45v. However, running that voltage on an all-core workload with AVX will immediately cause the CPU to thermal throttle. Too much heat density on such a small die. Zen 4's already a struggle with cooling at just 1.2v all-core.

Parton me, but saying that 1.45V is safe is a little vague, and potentially dangerous if there is no clarification with it.
Zen3 can get safely values up to 1.5V but only on single thread or low light loads. As load increases and current increases voltage (and frequency) drops progressively. So at all core load you get the lowest.
But...
How low it will go for all core load depends on the type of load.
For example on CB R23 all core I'm seeing 1.3-1.32V and 4.5-4.6GHz
Keeping the same PPT/TDC/EDC limits but running P95 small ffts voltage drops below 1.2V and also frequency with it.

This is why a static OC on a Ryzen is a bad idea unless you know exactly what loads to run and what not.

Hey guys, I was just wondering what voltage would be safe for all core workloads, because PBO likes to go to 1.32 volts at 4.5ghz, despite being able to get it down to 1.11 volts manually and still be stable.
Is my PBO doing something wrong or is that normal?

The CPU will be fine as long as you keep PBO scalar to X1.
If you want to protect it further you can restrict its PPT limit. Leaving PBO to the hands of the board is also not good idea.
Set it to advanced mode and set the values for PPT/TDC/EDC manually. Having a 6-core I'd say that productivity is not your thing. So you dont need too high PPT.

Use Curve Optimizer on negative steps but dont go at -30 (-90~150mV) at once. Test it first... start with -10 (thats -30~50mV undervolt). And by testing I dont mean run stress test. Use it like you use it daily.
UV on CurveOptimizer does not mean that you'll see lower voltage. It means that you'll see slightly higher frequency on the same voltage, as long as the limits PPT/TDC/EDC and temp permits it.

You can also set a max CPU temperature as extra protection. Zen3 default operating limit is 90C. You can set it at 85 or 80C

 

[freeagent]

I have seen my 5600X do 155w with a static OC, it wasn't impressed but it still did it. I would stick to an advanced PBO profile. Don't be afraid to kick it in the cores a little. 6 core love it more than the 12 cores do.

 

[RaceT3ch]

Parton me, but saying that 1.45V is safe is a little vague, and potentially dangerous if there is no clarification with it.
Zen3 can get safely values up to 1.5V but only on single thread or low light loads. As load increases and current increases voltage (and frequency) drops progressively. So at all core load you get the lowest.
But...
How low it will go for all core load depends on the type of load.
For example on CB R23 all core I'm seeing 1.3-1.32V and 4.5-4.6GHz
Keeping the same PPT/TDC/EDC limits but running P95 small ffts voltage drops below 1.2V and also frequency with it.

This is why a static OC on a Ryzen is a bad idea unless you know exactly what loads to run and what not.

The CPU will be fine as long as you keep PBO scalar to X1.
If you want to protect it further you can restrict its PPT limit. Leaving PBO to the hands of the board is also not good idea.
Set it to advanced mode and set the values for PPT/TDC/EDC manually. Having a 6-core I'd say that productivity is not your thing. So you dont need too high PPT.

Use Curve Optimizer on negative steps but dont go at -30 (-90~150mV) at once. Test it first... start with -10 (thats -30~50mV undervolt). And by testing I dont mean run stress test. Use it like you use it daily.
UV on CurveOptimizer does not mean that you'll see lower voltage. It means that you'll see slightly higher frequency on the same voltage, as long as the limits PPT/TDC/EDC and temp permits it.

You can also set a max CPU temperature as extra protection. Zen3 default operating limit is 90C. You can set it at 85 or 80C.

Am I supposed to do this in the Bios? Because I'm not doing it again after last time, had to reset it.

 

[tabascosauz]

Am I supposed to do this in the Bios? Because I'm not doing it again after last time, had to reset it.

If you wanna do anything ever associated with optimizing settings or hardware, you're gonna have to get used to punching settings into BIOS after a CMOS reset.

The alternative is to use PBO2 Tuner (google search for a download link, there's no dedicated official site), which opens in windows and applies PBO power limits and CO in real time. Unless you schedule it to run at boot, however, it will need to be re-applied manually after every restart.

Ryzen Master might have a means to set CO settings as well, that should stick.

If the board vendor hasn't placed a dedicated menu on the Tweaker page, then it should be under Advanced > AMD OC > PBO. Especially on an older 300/400-series era Gigabyte board BIOS.

 

[Zach_01]

Hey guys, I was just wondering what voltage would be safe for all core workloads, because PBO likes to go to 1.32 volts at 4.5ghz, despite being able to get it down to 1.11 volts manually and still be stable.
Is my PBO doing something wrong or is that normal?

If you want, let us take a look of a HWiNFO64 screenshot while you run CB R24
Like this:

Need to make visible, CPU frequency, load, and the entire "CPU enhanced" section of HWiNFO64



You can't compare the above with the 5600X. Values will be different. Its just to get an idea.

During CB R24 MT, voltage fluctuate between 1.23 and 1.32V with an avg of 1.27V
Speed was around 4.55~4.6GHz on avg
I have some negative curve optimizer, and slightly expanded PBO limits from 5900X default.
PPT: 142W >> 162W
TDC: 95A >> 110A
EDC:140 >> 150A
Temp: 90C >> 80C

Power Reporting Deviation as shown stayed at 100% during the load so power consumption value (PPT) was as accurate as possible.

Am I supposed to do this in the Bios? Because I'm not doing it again after last time, had to reset it.

Of course in BIOS. Any PBO change its better to be done in BIOS. RyzenMaster has too many issues to be used for changes. Haven't used it for many years now.
Last time when crashed what did you choose? -30?

 

[RaceT3ch]

If you want, let us take a look of a HWiNFO64 screenshot while you run CB R24
Like this:

Need to make visible, CPU frequency, load, and the entire "CPU enhanced" section of HWiNFO64

View attachment 359479

You can't compare the above with the 5600X. Values will be different. Its just to get an idea.

During CB R24 MT, voltage fluctuate between 1.23 and 1.32V with an avg of 1.27V
Speed was around 4.55~4.6GHz on avg
I have some negative curve optimizer, and slightly expanded PBO limits from 5900X default.
PPT: 142W >> 162W
TDC: 95A >> 110A
EDC:140 >> 150A
Temp: 90C >> 80C

Power Reporting Deviation as shown stayed at 100% during the load so power consumption value (PPT) was as accurate as possible.


Of course in BIOS. Any PBO change its better to be done in BIOS. RyzenMaster has too many issues to be used for changes. Haven't used it for many years now.
Last time when crashed what did you choose? -30?

-30, that's what it defaulted to

 

[A Computer Guy]

-30, that's what it defaulted to

Ryzen Master defaults are terrible.

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

for multi core, 1.4v for inadequate cooling (AIO's, Air, etc etc) for adequate cooling (Custom loops, LN2, DICE) the sky is your limit.

I used to daily a 5900x and for DOS OC with the Dark Hero I use manual voltages of 1.44v, I get around 4.82ghz all core with around 80+c temps while single or low load boosting to 5ghz gets me around 1.5v for a short period of time only.

YMMV actually.

 

[Ruru]

-62mV offset with my 5800X

 

[Zach_01]

for multi core, 1.4v for inadequate cooling (AIO's, Air, etc etc) for adequate cooling (Custom loops, LN2, DICE) the sky is your limit.

I used to daily a 5900x and for DOS OC with the Dark Hero I use manual voltages of 1.44v, I get around 4.82ghz all core with around 80+c temps while single or low load boosting to 5ghz gets me around 1.5v for a short period of time only.

YMMV actually.

That is awfully high and dangerous voltage for all core load at 80+C
The CPU would never do that to it self with that level of temperature due to very high current.
Maybe with special cooling to under 50C and still its debatable!

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

That is awfully high and dangerous voltage for all core load at 80+C

nahh..

The CPU would never do that to it self with that level of temperature due to very high current.

DOS OC overrides the PBO limits, I normally see around 240-260w when DOS OC engages.

Maybe with special cooling to under 50C and still its debatable!

I never updated my bios, I was using the best BIOS the Dark Hero can possibly use, 3801, I only updated the bios when I sold it, just to clear the profiles which some dumb user might play with.

 

[freeagent]

I can do 260w without docs using just my custom limits and curve.

1.44v ac will not be all load stable.

 

[Zach_01]

nahh..


DOS OC overrides the PBO limits, I normally see around 240-260w when DOS OC engages.


I never updated my bios, I was using the best BIOS the Dark Hero can possibly use, 3801, I only updated the bios when I sold it, just to clear the profiles which some dumb user might play with.

nahh?
ok

You are eating up the 5900X slowly with 1.44V all core load and 4.8+GHz
And 240~260W? What do you think this is? Some threadripper or Zen 4/5?

You like it or not... you understand it or not... by static OC you have bypassed every silicon health management and protection the CPU has.
You didnt override just PBO but everything. And thats bad. Your CPU its on the mercy of current and temp. And they have no mercy...
I just hope no one follows your steps and destroy its CPU.

I really dont care at this point what you are doing. I saw what you said and I felt like I should say something.
Based on your response (nahh...) I can not do anything more for you as you can believe what you want and treat your parts as you wish. Its yours
But I feel like I should protect others by following your steps, because you cant going around and saying that this is normal and everything is ok.

 

[RaceT3ch]

Ryzen Master defaults are terrible.

Bios Level

for multi core, 1.4v for inadequate cooling (AIO's, Air, etc etc) for adequate cooling (Custom loops, LN2, DICE) the sky is your limit.

I used to daily a 5900x and for DOS OC with the Dark Hero I use manual voltages of 1.44v, I get around 4.82ghz all core with around 80+c temps while single or low load boosting to 5ghz gets me around 1.5v for a short period of time only.

YMMV actually.

Okay I seriously doubt thats even remotely safe for the next 5+ years since I don't plan to upgrade.
Any higher than 1.35 and I run into 90+C

 

[Zach_01]

One way to determine static voltage, is running the load you want to run on auto boost, see what voltage the cpu is getting and then apply a notch more while you insert some Vdroop.
And then you must not run anything heavier than that load.

That’s kinda safe but not a 100% because you are leaving out the temp factor.
The CPU on auto boosting regulates its self by seeing wattage, current, temperature and who knows what else internally.
These are highly dynamic chips with many safeties that no static oc can replicate.
In fact every safety mechanism the CPU has it gets bypassed on static.
Static oc is safe only on very conservative level.

Like run the worst possible load like P95 small ffts see the voltage and then dial it to static.
Anything else is potentially dangerous in short or long run.

This is 2024 and the clasic old school OC is dead pretty much.
Everything is OCed out of the box. Not in the best way, but it is.
The only safe way to fine tune it is through curve optimizer (and curve shaper on new Zen5).

 

[RaceT3ch]

One way to determine static voltage, is running the load you want to run on auto boost, see what voltage the cpu is getting and then apply a notch more while you insert some Vdroop.
And then you must not run anything heavier than that load.

That’s kinda safe but not a 100% because you are leaving out the temp factor.
The CPU on auto boosting regulates its self by seeing wattage, current, temperature and who knows what else internally.
These are highly dynamic chips with many safeties that no static oc can replicate.
In fact every safety mechanism the CPU has it gets bypassed on static.
Static oc is safe only on very conservative level.

Like run the worst possible load like P95 small ffts see the voltage and then dial it to static.
Anything else is potentially dangerous in short or long run.

This is 2024 and the clasic old school OC is dead pretty much.
Everything is OCed out of the box. Not in the best way, but it is.
The only safe way to fine tune it is through curve optimizer (and curve shaper on new Zen5).

Is there like a step-by-step guide to get PBO to run at 4.6-4.7GHZ instead of 4.55 in the bios? My CPU can handle it at reasonable voltages + temps.
Basically, if I'm going to use PBO, what will I need to do in BIOS? Because I always mess up in there.

Oh, another thing
My motherboard said it supports up to 3200mhz ram, is it possible to go past that limit or not?

 

[Zach_01]

Is there like a step-by-step guide to get PBO to run at 4.6-4.7GHZ instead of 4.55 in the bios? My CPU can handle it at reasonable voltages + temps.
Basically, if I'm going to use PBO, what will I need to do in BIOS? Because I always mess up in there.

Im sure there is somewhere some one made an article or a video about.
But if you want it can be done here.

Before I can say anything I have to ask you to run for example Cinebench R24 for 8~10min and befor you stop it or finished, take a screenshot of HWiNFO64 like the screenshot below.
I'd like to see how the CPU operates as you have it now.
I've marked in red boxes the sections need to be visible

You have to start CB R24 and after it starts rendering you hit the clock icon down-right corner for all values to be reset, and you have to take screenshot after 8-10min and while test is still running.

Air temperature to my CPU cooler was about ~27C. This can make a difference for the boosting of the CPU. Results wont be the same at 22C air or 32C air.
Average speed was ~4.6GHz, voltage was fluctuating between 1.23 and 1.32V (avg 1.267V) and avg CPU temp was below 70C. During test speed was fluctuating around 4.5~4.7GHz



For more accurate readings on HWiNFO64 "Snapshot CPU Polling" must be enabled on its main settings (right click tray icon >> settings)

Oh, another thing
My motherboard said it supports up to 3200mhz ram, is it possible to go past that limit or not?

I cant answer that. I have no experience with X370 board. Is you RAM capable of running over 3200MT/s?

 

[RaceT3ch]

I cant answer that. I have no experience with X370 board. Is you RAM capable of running over 3200MT/s?

No, but people tell me to overclock my ram all the time
Its 3200 CL16

No, but people tell me to overclock my ram all the time
Its 3200 CL16

PS, heres the model number, I don't know anything about Samsung B dies or Hynix A dies
SP016GXLZU320BSA