Underclocking(?)

[Creatorbros3]

I recently got a Ryzen 9 5950X but made a slight calculation error - mainly in regards to my PSU. It runs stable in most cases, but if it ever engages the GPU and the CPU together and either of them boost (this is my best guess as I've not spent much time truly diagnosing it) it shuts my system down. Rendering from DaVinci Resolve didn't seem to trip it - but it's been mostly basic edits with slight color correction. Doing a sample scene in Blender shut it down immediately though.

I don't think repeated shut downs would be the best for the hardware long term, plus it's just inconvenient. I will eventually buy a new PSU that supports it all fine - but until then I'd like the system to just not boost at all. I've never dealt with over clocking or anything like that. I build a system and run it vanilla. I edit video and photos for my business, so I prefer stability over full tilt, unhindered power. I have an MSI motherboard with a fairly customizable BIOS. So I would think there's be something there to limit boosting. I just don't know what it would be. Any tips would be appreciated.

An additional inquiry, while I'm on the topic sort of: what PSU might you recommend for future proofing. I lean towards Corsair because that's what I have experience with so far and have liked it. Plus the 10yr warranty is a nice peace of mind too. I also like matching components where possible because I have an odd perfectionist mind that prefers a matching system even over performance in some cases. However, I have also heard great things about Seasonic. So I'm open to the suggestions there. I'd like something with enough headroom to support future systems as well as my current one. I could foresee running an RX 7900XTX or whatever equivalent GPU in the future along with a maxed out Ryzen 9 current gen whenever the time comes. It seems like wattage boosts have settled down and efficiency is being prioritized a little more, so it may not take a 1600W PSU or more in the future to have top of the line performance. Right now I've been looking at 1000W Platinum's or Titanium's. Seems like that would be enough headroom for anything I'd be doing, plus the efficiency and quality that it'll last a looong time to work through a couple systems. Share your thoughts. Much appreciated.

 

[Ruru]

I wouldn't be worried about the wattage, I'd consider just in the PSU quality.

A KW one should be hella enough. Do you live in Europe or America (somewhat makes it easier for recommendations)?

 

[eidairaman1]

7 yo psu, corsair vengeance ram... AM4 the corsair is nothing but a problem, but its opssible the psu's ocp/ovp maybe kicking in, what about motherboard voltage protection, Is that a thing on msi motherboards like it was on asus?

 

[Ruru]

7 yo psu, corsair vengeance ram... AM4 the corsair is nothing but a problem

Whoa, what? Is that still so?

no wonder why my friend's PC is unstable :/

 

[Creatorbros3]

I wouldn't be worried about the wattage, I'd consider just in the PSU quality.

A KW one should be hella enough. Do you live in Europe or America (somewhat makes it easier for recommendations)?

USA. Yeah I knew KW would be solid for this - mainly hoped it would be solid for any future builds.

7 yo psu, corsair vengeance ram... AM4 the corsair is nothing but a problem, but its opssible the psu's ocp/ovp maybe kicking in, what about motherboard voltage protection, Is that a thing on msi motherboards like it was on asus?

The PSU was well reviewed when I got it. It's not given me any problems so far.

"AM4 the Corsair is nothing but a problem" is this talking about the RAM or PSU?

It has a 10yr warranty. So if it is a problem, I should be able to file a claim with Corsair.

 

[Ruru]

USA. Yeah I knew KW would be solid for this - mainly hoped it would be solid for any future builds.


The PSU was well reviewed when I got it. It's not given me any problems so far.

"AM4 the Corsair is nothing but a problem" is this talking about the RAM or PSU?

It has a 10yr warranty. So if it is a problem, I should be able to file a claim with Corsair.

I'm too lazy to give a bang for buck recommendation, but for example, a Corsair RM1000 should be hella good.

 

[Toothless]

5950x PBO tuned can pull 260w package. Stock it does 140w.

A solid RM850x is way more than enough for your build. I had my 7900XTX with my 5950x @260w on a HX850 perfectly fine. I also have a build with a 14900k and 6950XT on a RM850x perfectly fine too.

You don't need to overspend on a 1kw.

 

[c2DDragon]

I agree with Toothless, a 1000W PSU is overkill and is no use if you don't plan to seriously upgrade your build like for $3k and going for the 5090, AM5 and so on.
You could try a friend's PSU and look if you get the same symptoms, if you can't have a friend helping you could buy a new PSU from Amazon, try, if it does the job ok, if not, just ask for a refund. The Corsair ones are rock solid.

About underclocking, you will have to go into the BIOS and check everything, I own intel CPUs for desktop so I cannot help much (the laptop BIOS my AMD got is kind of...you know, useless). You should love headhaches and spending hours looking at benchmarks xD

The first thing to do will be to check what you have in AUTO and learn what this does, then you want to put the loadline calibration to the minimum (it's meant to be the highest number, MSI tends to put a little graphic so you know, for mine 8 is the value for the maximum Vdrop and so, the minimal motherboard abuse), then you will have to figure (litteraly) what is your maximum CPU voltage (the AUTO value could get you a hint as it's for sure overkill).

From now you want to lower that value, how ? Do you want a fixed Vcore or a dynamic one ? I prefer the dynamic one and it's a pain, if you choose this, you will have a huge pain because it's about offsets, the ultra minimal Vcore while idle which HAS to be stable and every steps of voltage your CPU can use before going at its max power without failing. All this versus something (fixed Vcore) just stable for idle and maximum.
For this step, you will have to guess, trying step by step, not going too aggressive, what could possibly boot Windows as for minimum of Voltage.

When you can finally boot with a stupid low Voltage, you will then benchmark with some heavy useless (not so useless after all) software like cinebench. Prepare to love BSODs or freezes.

Notice that for the voltage, you don't want to be very aggressive, try 10mv, step by step. If you go from the initial voltage you could see in the BIOS, go lower it by 10mV until the benchmark freezes or rewards you with a BSOD. (You will have to try everytime but from the start you could go easily from 30mV lower).

I don't know if as Intel, AMD got the special turbo maximum wattage limit like : Long duration power limit and Short duration power limit. Those things are for limiting the maximum Wattage the CPU can pull to achieve nonsense. When you see you can limit it and have the same CPU&GPU power for 20% less Wattage yeah you can tell it's pulling much for nonsense.

Every chips are differents, you could own 2x the same CPUs, there is like 5% chance you could underclock & overclock them with the same min/max Voltage or Wattage.

At least, if you are brave enough to learn 50% of what is in your BIOS you will earn a lot. Don't forget to enable the XMP feature for your RAM btw if it's not made already. Still you can have hints about what could approximately be the lowest and the highest (for underclocking &/or for overclocking) voltages looking at others' values while searching for your CPU results.

ALL this to say, yeah, go try your luck with a 850W PSU before going crazy.

As a bonus for this wall of text I reward you all with this LEGO MacLaren P1 I saw some weeks ago.

 

[Toothless]

Or they could just use eco mode.

 

[eidairaman1]

USA. Yeah I knew KW would be solid for this - mainly hoped it would be solid for any future builds.


The PSU was well reviewed when I got it. It's not given me any problems so far.

"AM4 the Corsair is nothing but a problem" is this talking about the RAM or PSU?

It has a 10yr warranty. So if it is a problem, I should be able to file a claim with Corsair.

Whoa, what? Is that still so?

no wonder why my friend's PC is unstable :/

USA. Yeah I knew KW would be solid for this - mainly hoped it would be solid for any future builds.


The PSU was well reviewed when I got it. It's not given me any problems so far.

"AM4 the Corsair is nothing but a problem" is this talking about the RAM or PSU?

It has a 10yr warranty. So if it is a problem, I should be able to file a claim with Corsair.

I mentioned vengeance, it is not well received with AM4...

 

[Ruru]

I mentioned vengeance, it is not well received with AM4...

Oooooon the other hand, the Vengeance sticks work @ 2133 on my friend so maybe I just don't care. It's his problem after all....

 

[eidairaman1]

Oooooon the other hand, the Vengeance sticks work @ 2133 on my friend so maybe I just don't care. It's his problem after all....

Exactly my point, the 5800 oem rig with B550 Steel Legend is using Ballistix Gamer 3600 32GB kit at XMP, and I dont think those were on the QVL.

 

[c2DDragon]

Or they could just use eco mode.

What ? On the motherboard it should just help when the PC is OFF, on Windows it's doing something like nothing
What do you mean ?

I mentioned vengeance, it is not well received with AM4...

That's from OP's sys specs so, as I'm not an AMD desktop user I can't tell for sure but I think the old PSU is failing.

 

[eidairaman1]

What ? On the motherboard it should just help when the PC is OFF, on Windows it's doing something like nothing
What do you mean ?

View attachment 361754
That's from OP's sys specs so, as I'm not an AMD desktop user I can't tell for sure but I think the old PSU is failing.

Yeah i was following those and it would seem yes they need to be updated and I am suspecting the same as Im not sure how corsair is on ddr5 for am5...

I wasn't thinking abut the AM5 he just got from the sys specs mentioned...

 

[Toothless]

What ? On the motherboard it should just help when the PC is OFF, on Windows it's doing something like nothing
What do you mean ?

View attachment 361754
That's from OP's sys specs so, as I'm not an AMD desktop user I can't tell for sure but I think the old PSU is failing.

AMD eco is within PBO settings and it sets wattage caps. 5950x stock is 140w package, which can be turned down to 95w~ and 45w~.

 

[c2DDragon]

AMD eco is within PBO settings and it sets wattage caps. 5950x stock is 140w package, which can be turned down to 95w~ and 45w~.

Thanks, I had no clue about this feature =)

 

[Zach_01]

I recently got a Ryzen 9 5950X but made a slight calculation error - mainly in regards to my PSU. It runs stable in most cases, but if it ever engages the GPU and the CPU together and either of them boost (this is my best guess as I've not spent much time truly diagnosing it) it shuts my system down. Rendering from DaVinci Resolve didn't seem to trip it - but it's been mostly basic edits with slight color correction. Doing a sample scene in Blender shut it down immediately though.

I don't think repeated shut downs would be the best for the hardware long term, plus it's just inconvenient. I will eventually buy a new PSU that supports it all fine - but until then I'd like the system to just not boost at all. I've never dealt with over clocking or anything like that. I build a system and run it vanilla. I edit video and photos for my business, so I prefer stability over full tilt, unhindered power. I have an MSI motherboard with a fairly customizable BIOS. So I would think there's be something there to limit boosting. I just don't know what it would be. Any tips would be appreciated.

An additional inquiry, while I'm on the topic sort of: what PSU might you recommend for future proofing. I lean towards Corsair because that's what I have experience with so far and have liked it. Plus the 10yr warranty is a nice peace of mind too. I also like matching components where possible because I have an odd perfectionist mind that prefers a matching system even over performance in some cases. However, I have also heard great things about Seasonic. So I'm open to the suggestions there. I'd like something with enough headroom to support future systems as well as my current one. I could foresee running an RX 7900XTX or whatever equivalent GPU in the future along with a maxed out Ryzen 9 current gen whenever the time comes. It seems like wattage boosts have settled down and efficiency is being prioritized a little more, so it may not take a 1600W PSU or more in the future to have top of the line performance. Right now I've been looking at 1000W Platinum's or Titanium's. Seems like that would be enough headroom for anything I'd be doing, plus the efficiency and quality that it'll last a looong time to work through a couple systems. Share your thoughts. Much appreciated.

When system shuts down running blender is the load on CPU or GPU?
The blender benchmark I have (v4.2.0) can utilize CPU or GPU but not together. When GPU is selected the CPU is doing some work but not near the 100% load.
Even if you somehow fully utilize both CPU and GPU with 100% load the whole system should not exceed 500W consumption, maybe 550W? depending the rest of the system..
Although those RX6000 have the rumor of nasty transients that can spike really high. Maybe those trigger some protection of PSU (?)
Done any gaming?

Have you check anything with HWiNFO64?
Temps, power, voltages and so many you can see...



For a new PSU you definately dont need a Titanium grade efficiency one. Gold is the mainstream, and those who care about PSU heat output (and maybe PSU fan noise) on high loads can go for Platinum. Above that the price is not justified really.

 

[Creatorbros3]

When system shuts down running blender is the load on CPU or GPU?
The blender benchmark I have (v4.2.0) can utilize CPU or GPU but not together. When GPU is selected the CPU is doing some work but not near the 100% load.
Even if you somehow fully utilize both CPU and GPU with 100% load the whole system should not exceed 500W consumption, maybe 550W? depending the rest of the system..
Although those RX6000 have the rumor of nasty transients that can spike really high. Maybe those trigger some protection of PSU (?)
Done any gaming?

Have you check anything with HWiNFO64?
Temps, power, voltages and so many you can see...

View attachment 361799

For a new PSU you definately dont need a Titanium grade efficiency one. Gold is the mainstream, and those who care about PSU heat output (and maybe PSU fan noise) on high loads can go for Platinum. Above that the price is not justified really.

I think it may have just been an anomaly when I first installed. It has since not crashed once and I have run the render many times. It all seems stable. Maybe it just had to learn the new hardware.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

I'm thinking MB with a middle class tier VRM capable of a stock 2700K at best?

Cpu might just be a tad too much for the board. Turn off some cores and see if it stays running maybe.

 

[Zach_01]

I think it may have just been an anomaly when I first installed. It has since not crashed once and I have run the render many times. It all seems stable. Maybe it just had to learn the new hardware.

BTW, does your board have VRM temp sensor?

 

[iameatingjam]

I'm somebody who pushes my power supplies more than I should. Got 14700k, 4090, 6 ssds, a dvd drive, 240mm aio with fans that go up to 3200rpm. Plus 5 other fans if you include the vrm fan. Then there's all the rgb, its on a fan, the ram, the gpu, and I got a strip of lights as well. Also rgb keyboard and mouse, all the other usb devices like the controller, webcam and also it charges my vape. All that on a 850w unit, and not exactly an s tier unit at that. But I do keep a leash and close eye on most power hungry components (14700kf and 4090). Haven't had problems yet...... I had a traumatic experience from upgrading a power supply that worked fine and replaced with a nice brand name one recommended to me on a forum just like this.... that fried my system years ago so you could say I... hesitate to upgrade PSUs when they are working. Even though logically I know it was just bad luck.

Anyway, I'm thinking maybe its not a wattage problem, just a bad psu problem. You're only 100w less than me. Are you watching power consumption through something like hwinfo or hwmonitor?

 

[Bones]

Although some have said a 1000W unit is overkill (Based on power requirements for the entire system) you can do that if you want to.

Wattage headroom can be a benefit, making sure the system isn't starving for power if it ever needs it.
Not to mention a PSU that's never stressed to it's limit tends to last longer too, and the extra headroom in turn can contribute to overall system stability when the PC is running under a heavy workload.

I always "Overfigure" what my systems need so the PSU used isn't always stressed to the limit since loads on the unit are always fluctuating and that's just how it is with a machine when you are using it. Wattage spikes are a thing, no way around it and if the unit can soak up the spikes while remaining within it's limit(s) then it's fine and really what you need to run in the first place.

In my case:
I'm currently running a 1600W Rosewill Hercules in this machine and it's doing fine, not to mention it's at least 8 years old by now. The other one like it is even older, yet I use it for XOC benchmarking and it still performs well, no issues about power delivery to even speak of with it as well - Gets the job done and that's it.

The cables to both units are nice and thick, being they are big, round larger gauged wire cables - Not flat/thin/smaller wire gauged ribbon cables; These are wrapped in sheathing and have handled anything I've ever hooked them to since day 1.
I've never had an issue with them concerning things like being of poor quality or just being too small to do what's expected of them and yes, I do some crazy stuff and times but these units always deliver what I need, when I need it.
These units have lasted because inspite of what I do, the power demand on them isn't close to what they are truly capable of so they live an easy, happy life and the longevity they have shown so far is proof of it.

Now - With all that said:
Biggest thing however is the quality of the unit used, Corsair isn't that bad and Seasonic does have a rep for quality themselves but know any make can make a turd of a PSU that can crap out, so be sure whatever you get is a known "Quality" make and model PSU, then go from there for spec'ing what to get.
Things like cables for example are important to pay attention to because some makes will look good, have specs like you want but also have cheap cables included, which can be a source of problems or even a fire hazard in some cases.
Power cables are required and are actually part of the unit so if you decide to get one, make sure the cables are good quality at the very least if possible.

 

[Creatorbros3]

Although some have said a 1000W unit is overkill (Based on power requirements for the entire system) you can do that if you want to.

Wattage headroom can be a benefit, making sure the system isn't starving for power if it ever needs it.
Not to mention a PSU that's never stressed to it's limit tends to last longer too, and the extra headroom in turn can contribute to overall system stability when the PC is running under a heavy workload.

I always "Overfigure" what my systems need so the PSU used isn't always stressed to the limit since loads on the unit are always fluctuating and that's just how it is with a machine when you are using it. Wattage spikes are a thing, no way around it and if the unit can soak up the spikes while remaining within it's limit(s) then it's fine and really what you need to run in the first place.

In my case:
I'm currently running a 1600W Rosewill Hercules in this machine and it's doing fine, not to mention it's at least 8 years old by now. The other one like it is even older, yet I use it for XOC benchmarking and it still performs well, no issues about power delivery to even speak of with it as well - Gets the job done and that's it.

The cables to both units are nice and thick, being they are big, round larger gauged wire cables - Not flat/thin/smaller wire gauged ribbon cables; These are wrapped in sheathing and have handled anything I've ever hooked them to since day 1.
I've never had an issue with them concerning things like being of poor quality or just being too small to do what's expected of them and yes, I do some crazy stuff and times but these units always deliver what I need, when I need it.
These units have lasted because inspite of what I do, the power demand on them isn't close to what they are truly capable of so they live an easy, happy life and the longevity they have shown so far is proof of it.

Now - With all that said:
Biggest thing however is the quality of the unit used, Corsair isn't that bad and Seasonic does have a rep for quality themselves but know any make can make a turd of a PSU that can crap out, so be sure whatever you get is a known "Quality" make and model PSU, then go from there for spec'ing what to get.
Things like cables for example are important to pay attention to because some makes will look good, have specs like you want but also have cheap cables included, which can be a source of problems or even a fire hazard in some cases.
Power cables are required and are actually part of the unit so if you decide to get one, make sure the cables are good quality at the very least if possible.

Based on reviews at the time, I believed this unit to be a good one. I am not sure it was the issue. My system only popped that one time right after installing the CPU. So I'm rolling some dice thinking maybe I'm alright. I have some spare time anyways. If it were crashing on a daily basis, then I'd need to start digging in more to get to the bottom of it. But the occasional crash is something I'm used to with most machines.

I'm somebody who pushes my power supplies more than I should. Got 14700k, 4090, 6 ssds, a dvd drive, 240mm aio with fans that go up to 3200rpm. Plus 5 other fans if you include the vrm fan. Then there's all the rgb, its on a fan, the ram, the gpu, and I got a strip of lights as well. Also rgb keyboard and mouse, all the other usb devices like the controller, webcam and also it charges my vape. All that on a 850w unit, and not exactly an s tier unit at that. But I do keep a leash and close eye on most power hungry components (14700kf and 4090). Haven't had problems yet...... I have a traumatic experience from upgrading a power supply that worked fine and replaced with a nice brand name one recommended to me on a forum just like this.... that fried my system years ago so you could say I... hesitate to upgrade PSUs when they are working. Even though logically I know it was just bad luck.

Anyway, I'm thinking maybe its not a wattage problem, just a bad psu problem. You're only 100w less than me. Are you watching power consumption through something like hwinfo or hwmonitor?

I now watch the CPU and GPU power draw in AMD Adrenalin. That's the extent of it. Nothing wild looking so far. The most I've seen is 300W from the GPU and 110W from the CPU - not at the same time. I think that crash was just something random. Seems all good now and I've put in some hours gaming since the install as well as editing and rendering some.

BTW, does your board have VRM temp sensor?

Dang it. I keep forgetting to get Hwinfo while I'm home so I can check that. I am not sure if it does. I know it was supposed to be a better board in the B450 category at the time. I knew some of what to look into as far as power phase/delivery and VRM reviews when I bought it. I don't remember what folks were saying now though.

I'm thinking MB with a middle class tier VRM capable of a stock 2700K at best?

Cpu might just be a tad too much for the board. Turn off some cores and see if it stays running maybe.

It only crashed the one time now. I think I just freaked out quick because I had just noticed that my PSU could be low wattage and then the system crashed right after installing the CPU. So I sprung to the forums. Lol Seems good now after gaming quite a bit and editing and rendering some more. Ran the exact render it crashed on and had no issues. 1:59 render on my R7 2700 down to a 0:47 render with this R9 5950X. Pretty happy.

 

[chrcoluk]

I will under clock if it allows a nice efficiency boost. Typically my prime aim is undervolt with stock clocks, but if I get multiple voltage drops with a minimal clock drop I will do it.

 

[Creatorbros3]

I mentioned vengeance, it is not well received with AM4...

My first kit ran at 3200 XMP fine for years. Added a second and couldn't get out of 2133. Tried running the new kit solo and it still wouldn't run, so I knew it to be that kit specifically that was the issue. Ran some memory diagnostics after blue screening constantly for months and narrowed it down to being that kit - even at 2133. So just dumped that kit and run 2 x 16GB now. I might get that Ballistix 3600 CL16 kit that everyone loved. It's a bit pricey though as it's not available through retailers anymore - only eBay. $250+ for a 2 x 32GB kit. DaVinci Resolve eats RAM, so I wouldn't mind getting 4 x 32GB kit to run in it. I know that's a kit that some folks showed being able to run 4 sticks at 3600 even at larger capacities. So here's hoping... just gotta save up for a bit. Lol

I agree with Toothless, a 1000W PSU is overkill and is no use if you don't plan to seriously upgrade your build like for $3k and going for the 5090, AM5 and so on.
You could try a friend's PSU and look if you get the same symptoms, if you can't have a friend helping you could buy a new PSU from Amazon, try, if it does the job ok, if not, just ask for a refund. The Corsair ones are rock solid.

About underclocking, you will have to go into the BIOS and check everything, I own intel CPUs for desktop so I cannot help much (the laptop BIOS my AMD got is kind of...you know, useless). You should love headhaches and spending hours looking at benchmarks xD

The first thing to do will be to check what you have in AUTO and learn what this does, then you want to put the loadline calibration to the minimum (it's meant to be the highest number, MSI tends to put a little graphic so you know, for mine 8 is the value for the maximum Vdrop and so, the minimal motherboard abuse), then you will have to figure (litteraly) what is your maximum CPU voltage (the AUTO value could get you a hint as it's for sure overkill).

From now you want to lower that value, how ? Do you want a fixed Vcore or a dynamic one ? I prefer the dynamic one and it's a pain, if you choose this, you will have a huge pain because it's about offsets, the ultra minimal Vcore while idle which HAS to be stable and every steps of voltage your CPU can use before going at its max power without failing. All this versus something (fixed Vcore) just stable for idle and maximum.
For this step, you will have to guess, trying step by step, not going too aggressive, what could possibly boot Windows as for minimum of Voltage.

When you can finally boot with a stupid low Voltage, you will then benchmark with some heavy useless (not so useless after all) software like cinebench. Prepare to love BSODs or freezes.

Notice that for the voltage, you don't want to be very aggressive, try 10mv, step by step. If you go from the initial voltage you could see in the BIOS, go lower it by 10mV until the benchmark freezes or rewards you with a BSOD. (You will have to try everytime but from the start you could go easily from 30mV lower).

I don't know if as Intel, AMD got the special turbo maximum wattage limit like : Long duration power limit and Short duration power limit. Those things are for limiting the maximum Wattage the CPU can pull to achieve nonsense. When you see you can limit it and have the same CPU&GPU power for 20% less Wattage yeah you can tell it's pulling much for nonsense.

Every chips are differents, you could own 2x the same CPUs, there is like 5% chance you could underclock & overclock them with the same min/max Voltage or Wattage.

At least, if you are brave enough to learn 50% of what is in your BIOS you will earn a lot. Don't forget to enable the XMP feature for your RAM btw if it's not made already. Still you can have hints about what could approximately be the lowest and the highest (for underclocking &/or for overclocking) voltages looking at others' values while searching for your CPU results.

ALL this to say, yeah, go try your luck with a 850W PSU before going crazy.

As a bonus for this wall of text I reward you all with this LEGO MacLaren P1 I saw some weeks ago.

View attachment 361749View attachment 361750

I like the McLaren btw. Pretty sick.