AM4 and VRMs

[Frick]

Hey. So I'm seriously considering a 5700x3d, and I came upon this VRM Tier List, and I really dislike other tier lists, so my question is basically what does that all mean? My current motherboard (Asrock B450M-HDV) is really far down on the list and it suggests it will not be able to run a 5700X3D at stock CPU speeds. Is that how it works? I've been wanting a new motherboard for some time now, mostly because of storage (second NVMe and more SATA ports mainly, secondly more PCIe slots), but I'm honestly not keen on it.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

You'd likely need to drop it to 65-75w how much that'd effect performance who knows probably not much for gaming.

I'm not sure if temps or the actual power delivery in general would be the issue but that board looks like it's more geared towards 65w.

Your current cpu should sit around 70w at stock settings the 5700X3D is around 118w just for comparison.

 

[TheLostSwede]

With the X3D chips, you don't have to worry too much and at the end of the day, all the boards are built to work with all of the CPUs in the supported CPU list for that board. Is the CPU in there? Then you're good to go.
Considering you can't overclock the X3D chips, a standard VRM isn't going to cause any issues.

In your case, the 5800X3D is on the supported CPU list, as is the 5700X3D, so they will work just fine.

ASRock B450M-HDV R4.0

Supports AMD AM4 Socket Ryzen™ 2000, 3000, 4000 G-Series, 5000 and 5000 G-Series Desktop Processors; 2 DIMMs, Supports DDR4 3200+(OC)<span style=color:red;>*</span>; 1 PCIe 3.0 x16, 1 PCIe 2.0 x1; Graphics Output : HDMI, DVI-D, D-Sub; 7.1 CH HD Audio (Realtek ALC887/897 Audio Codec); 4 SATA3, 1...

www.asrock.com

You'd likely need to drop it to 65-75w how much that'd effect performance who knows probably not much for gaming.

Why? The board supports 105 W CPUs.

 

[yfn_ratchet]

A proper VRM tier list is splitting hairs IMO, usually you can tell how 'good' (or overbuilt, in a vast majority of motherboards) a VRM assortment is at a glance to surprising accuracy. Official spec for the B450M-HDV is 105W, and while the 5700X3D is not included in the official support list, its predecessor the 5800X3D is.

A motherboard first and foremost should be about what expandability and capabilites you want, so if you want to OC your 5700X3D, up the PPT to 150W, and slap a +100mV offset on it, you'll want something newer and beefier—same for if you want more/faster NVMe slots. Even a $100ish B550 board would suit that need for you.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Why? The board supports 105 W CPUs.

Sure go for it.... At least if there are issues running the cpu he'll know right away.

A lot of boards claim 5950x support and while technically true it's at a 20% hit to perfomance.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Sure go for it.... At least if there are issues running the cpu he'll know right away.

A lot of boards claim 5950x support and while technically true it's at a 20% hit to perfomance.

Fair enough, but those CPUs have another CCD.

Official spec for the B450M-HDV is 105W, and while the 5700X3D is not included in the official support list, its predecessor the 5800X3D is.

It is, it's at the bottom of the list with a new UEFI being needed.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Fair enough, but those CPUs have another CCD.


It is, it's at the bottom of the list with a new UEFI being needed.

To be fair I'd give it a go also I'd just have a plan B my statement was more of a worst case scenario.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Hey. So I'm seriously considering a 5700x3d, and I came upon this VRM Tier List, and I really dislike other tier lists, so my question is basically what does that all mean? My current motherboard (Asrock B450M-HDV) is really far down on the list and it suggests it will not be able to run a 5700X3D at stock CPU speeds. Is that how it works? I've been wanting a new motherboard for some time now, mostly because of storage (second NVMe and more SATA ports mainly, secondly more PCIe slots), but I'm honestly not keen on it.

Here is the specs off the tier list.

Yeah, I'd upgrade the board for sure.

4+3 won't handle it. The board will probably derate the cpu automatically from first post. My B450M-A did that with 2700X. A totally different story in my B450-I strix though. Can even overclock PBO.

89	B450	Asrock	HDV	micro-ATX		Intersil ISL95712	4+3	None	4	1x Niko-Sem PZ0903BK + 2x Niko-Sem PK618BA or 1x Sinopower

 

[yfn_ratchet]

Fair enough, but those CPUs have another CCD.


It is, it's at the bottom of the list with a new UEFI being needed.

Huh! It is. I didn't think to scroll straight to the bottom, thought it'd be nestled in with the other Vermeer chips. Nice catch.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Huh! It is. I didn't think to scroll straight to the bottom, thought it'd be nestled in with the other Vermeer chips. Nice catch.

Yeah, very messy list of CPUs there.

 

[Vya Domus]

I really doubt even that board would have trouble with a 5700X3D, these are not high TDP CPUs. I used a B450M Pro4 with a 1700X OC'd to ~140W and it was fine, this board looks like it has worse VRMs but still I doubt it can't handle 105W, which doesn't actually use that much power anyway.

 

[iuliug]

4+3 won't handle it. The board will probably derate the cpu automatically from first post. My B450M-A did that with 2700X. A totally different story in my B450-I strix though. Can even overclock PBO.

In real case full loads, what frequency did the 2700x ran on the B450M-A?

 

[taka]

I'm running a 5700x3d on a MSI B550-A Pro with a CO -25 all cores and here is the power under cpu burner.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I'm running a 5700x3d on a MSI B550-A Pro with a CO -25 all cores and here is the power under cpu burner.

View attachment 362468

That should be doable it would load about 12A per phase.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

In real case full loads, what frequency did the 2700x ran on the B450M-A?

In the Raijin case on the stock cooler, it would throttle. 95c was no problem. I know this isn't a 5700X3D, the VRMs just cooked. Had to actively cool them. So extra fan or cpu fan on turbo.

 

[eidairaman1]

In the Raijin case on the stock cooler, it would throttle. 95c was no problem. I know this isn't a 5700X3D, the VRMs just cooked. Had to actively cool them. So extra fan or cpu fan on turbo.

I was thinking the same. MSi just doesn't speak quality for me...

 

[ShrimpBrime]

I was thinking the same. MSi just doesn't speak quality for me...

Well, those where Asus boards, OP is running AsRock, and MSI seems hit or miss on some of these lower "tier" boards. Mortar Max was praised by a lot of people though. I think that was middle upper tier.

The B450-I strix is a badass board though. It's been running since at least 2018 daily. Has had everything except 3rd gen installed in it . Currently a 5600G with 6700 xt. Not a terrible match for 1440p.

Case reference.

Raijintek Aeneas Review

The Raijintek Aeneas is an mATX chassis that allows for multi-GPU and liquid cooling within a compact frame. It also aims to provide a lot of extras at an attractive price point by including unique lighting elements and plenty of fans right out of the box.

www.techpowerup.com

Pic of B450M-A. 2017
Nope sorry that's A320 m-k.

 

[tabascosauz]

Hey. So I'm seriously considering a 5700x3d, and I came upon this VRM Tier List, and I really dislike other tier lists, so my question is basically what does that all mean? My current motherboard (Asrock B450M-HDV) is really far down on the list and it suggests it will not be able to run a 5700X3D at stock CPU speeds. Is that how it works? I've been wanting a new motherboard for some time now, mostly because of storage (second NVMe and more SATA ports mainly, secondly more PCIe slots), but I'm honestly not keen on it.

Even on the lower end boards, VRM concerns are pretty overblown on AM4......

...but your HDV board is a special one, absolute bottom of the bin, and I would not trust it to run even a 65W TDP CPU (76W or 88W PPT).

That's a 4-phase Vcore, without double lo-side MOSFETs for current handling, with shit quality component choice, and no heatsink.

If you don't want to upgrade (understandable given that AM4 board choice has fallen off), then try and compensate with a dedicated VRM fan.

 

[natr0n]

That list if flawed.

" I still don't understand how the X570 Aorus Master is classified on the same tier as the Phantom Gaming X and Taichi when sources like HardwareUnboxed have shown the Aorus Master to have superior VRM's including reaching higher clocks and cooler VRMs and PCB compared to both the Taichi and Phantom Gaming X - and very similar stats to the C8H.

This is no criticism, just want to understand that's all."

 

[oxrufiioxo]

That list if flawed.

" I still don't understand how the X570 Aorus Master is classified on the same tier as the Phantom Gaming X and Taichi when sources like HardwareUnboxed have shown the Aorus Master to have superior VRM's including reaching higher clocks and cooler VRMs and PCB compared to both the Taichi and Phantom Gaming X - and very similar stats to the C8H.

This is no criticism, just want to understand that's all."

Likely because it gets there with a superior heatsink design and a backplate. The actual power stages at least for the the og varient aren't anything special.

These tier list have more to do with the components used not the real world performance.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Even on the lower end boards, VRM concerns are pretty overblown on AM4......

...but your HDV board is a special one, absolute bottom of the bin, and I would not trust it to run even a 65W TDP CPU (76W or 88W PPT).

That's a 4-phase Vcore, without double lo-side MOSFETs for current handling, with shit quality component choice, and no heatsink.

If you don't want to upgrade (understandable given that AM4 board choice has fallen off), then try and compensate with a dedicated VRM fan.

Also want to look into some VRM heatsinks. The copper ones are pretty cheap on fleabay.

Enzotech MOS-C10 MOSFET Cooler (Pack of 10pcs) | eBay

Pure forged copper. Weight 4g (Each).

www.ebay.com

 

[[crs]]

If you have to replace the board and buy a new CPU will it really be worth investing in an older platform?

A 7600X is about £10 more expensive than the 5700X3D, but according to TPU review is slightly faster than the 5800X3D in relative game performance @1080p
If you are going to spend at least £120 on a decent AM4 board you may as well go the bit extra and get a B650 AM5 board, just need some DDR5 6000, 32Gb can be got for under £100

Sell your current parts to recoup some costs and you could always upgrade the CPU later for a far faster X3D chip that is still recent.

 

[DaemonForce]

Soooo AM4 was basically another 0-300 moment in terms of board development and the VRMs on the 300 series boards mostly sucked.
It didn't matter how mainstream or high end you picked, if you blindly picked any board it was 50/50 you were getting weird Intersil voltage controllers somewhere and it didn't even need to be ASRock.
Add the 105W+ overclock profiles and you would be risking a fire on some configs.
400 series turned out to mostly be middle of the road and then 500 series was overbuilt. Like REALLY overbuilt.
The 500 series boards were like the 2nd coming. The real stars of the show were the Vishay SiC639 and Infineon TDA21472 SMART stages.
There were probably enough of these on every mainstream board to support dual AM4 socket. The difference is unreal.

The trend continued well into AM5 as well. 600 series boards got more 50-60A controllers but there were also more SMART stages that broke triple digits. The Renesas RAA2201054 was one of these and is probably the standard in 800 series boards seeing how there doesn't really appear to be any reason to go any higher for a while. Comfy.

 

[natr0n]

Soooo AM4 was basically another 0-300 moment in terms of board development and the VRMs on the 300 series boards mostly sucked.
It didn't matter how mainstream or high end you picked, if you blindly picked any board it was 50/50 you were getting weird Intersil voltage controllers somewhere and it didn't even need to be ASRock.
Add the 105W+ overclock profiles and you would be risking a fire on some configs.
400 series turned out to mostly be middle of the road and then 500 series was overbuilt. Like REALLY overbuilt.
The 500 series boards were like the 2nd coming. The real stars of the show were the Vishay SiC639 and Infineon TDA21472 SMART stages.
There were probably enough of these on every mainstream board to support dual AM4 socket. The difference is unreal.

The trend continued well into AM5 as well. 600 series boards got more 50-60A controllers but there were also more SMART stages that broke triple digits. The Renesas RAA2201054 was one of these and is probably the standard in 800 series boards seeing how there doesn't really appear to be any reason to go any higher for a while. Comfy.

what matx board do you recommend for a 5950x?

 

[tabascosauz]

Soooo AM4 was basically another 0-300 moment in terms of board development and the VRMs on the 300 series boards mostly sucked.
It didn't matter how mainstream or high end you picked, if you blindly picked any board it was 50/50 you were getting weird Intersil voltage controllers somewhere and it didn't even need to be ASRock.
Add the 105W+ overclock profiles and you would be risking a fire on some configs.
400 series turned out to mostly be middle of the road and then 500 series was overbuilt. Like REALLY overbuilt.
The 500 series boards were like the 2nd coming. The real stars of the show were the Vishay SiC639 and Infineon TDA21472 SMART stages.
There were probably enough of these on every mainstream board to support dual AM4 socket. The difference is unreal.

The trend continued well into AM5 as well. 600 series boards got more 50-60A controllers but there were also more SMART stages that broke triple digits. The Renesas RAA2201054 was one of these and is probably the standard in 800 series boards seeing how there doesn't really appear to be any reason to go any higher for a while. Comfy.

There were like, 3 boards total with TDA21472 and 21490 because those cost an arm and a leg each. It was the half dozen SKUs worth of cheap 50A Vishays handed out left right and center that allowed every vendor to move away from discretes in the midrange.

And in the context of a 5700X3D or any other 65W, you don't need much, even discretes are fine. Shit component choice discretes like ASRock's favourite Sinpowers in the pre-X570 Pro4 are still mostly fine as long as they double up and put a heatsink on it.

Unfortunately at the very bottom of the stack there are a few unheatsinked double 3- and single 4-phase boards that are about as good as E-waste, for being incapable of even that level of sustained wattage.