Lower than expected performance on RTX 4090 - possibly hindered by other components ?

[Tone Ski]

Hey all,

Just after some advice after upgrading my 2080ti to a 4090, wasn't managing to hit 60fps on some of the newer titles so went for the upgrade, when playing a few of the games I ran MSI Afterburner to check GPU load and used task manager to check CPU load just to make sure I was been bottlenecked by GPU, GPU was at 100% load, CPU around 50 - 70% - that was my rationale for GPU upgrade,

Since I've installed the card I've seen relatively small increase in fps and I was expecting a fairly big jump, a few things that make me think I may be limited somewhere else I'm unsure of :

Space Marine 2 - probably saw around a 5 - 10 fps increase with this game, frequently dips below 60fps to around 45fps, my CPU load sits at around 65 - 70% and gpu 45 - 50% so I'm unsure where I'm bottlenecked here

TDU Solar Crown - (this could just be a hot mess optimisation wise ?) can commonly sit at around 30 - 40 fps here - 60% cpu load 50% gpu load so again resources available so unsure where I'm bottlenecked here

I will note on Star Wars Outlaws I'm now seeing an increase of around 20 fps to around 65-70ish so fairly decent but the GPU is at max load here and so is the CPU for this one, also came across a post mentioning everything maxed someone was running this at 140ish fps at 1440p with a 4090 which I'm nowhere near but this was with a much better CPU than mine which could be the main contributing factor ? Also different MOBO + RAM but the differences there would be relatively small if I'm understanding correctly?

Thought well ... new games probably everyone is in the same boat and sure plenty of references to poor optimisation but people are still seemingly seeing higher framerates than I seem to be which makes me think I've missed something here,

All games are on an M.2 SSD,

Full system specs as below, would be grateful for anyone casting their eyes over it, see if I've done anything fundamentally wrong or I'm misunderstanding something, happy to provide any more info if required:

CASE : CORSAIR OBSIDIAN 500D
MONITOR - DELL U2715H - 2560X1440
MOBO - ROG STRIC X470-F GAMING
CPU - RYZEN 7 2700X
RAM - CORSAIR VENGEANCE DDR3 3200MHz DDR4
GPU - AORUS GEFORCE RTX 4090 MASTER
PSU - CORSAIR HX1000I

Thanks for taking a look ,

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Your CPU isnt cutting the mustard. Drop in a 5700X3D if you want to run it with the 4090.

The 5700X3D isnt a silver bullet but its going to be the best you can get for AM4. If you still want to waste money and squeeze out every last remaining performance. Consider getting some ram with the tightest timings you can get. - Total waste of money but it will get you maybe an extra 3-8fps more.

Most people will say that you should be running a 4090 on a AM5 setup instead but, you'll still get really performance out of AM4 platform despite it holding you back.

If you really want to max out the 4090 Then consider upgrading to the AM5 platform with a 7800X3D. But the jump will cost considerably more than sliding in a 5700X3D. Its honestly your call. You've created an imbalance by getting the 4090 before upgrading what should be upgrade first.


(There are many benefits towards going AM5 but it requires a bigger investment. But since you already have a 4090 anyway. Money clearly isnt a problem. Cheapest option is a 5700X3D but the AM4 is a dead platform. Some might class dropping in a 5700X3D as a waste of money but performance still sits very close to a Ryzen 5 7700X and that chips is very very good)

 

[chrcoluk]

2700X Zen 1+ might be not really enough to reliably drive a 4090.

Bear in mind CPU utilisation can be misleading e.g. if you have a 16 threaded CPU and a game has 4 threads, its not even capable of maxing out the chip. In which case you need to look at utilisation per core, and even thats not enough as Windows will often rotate the core a thread might be running on.

So as an example if you playing a 2 threaded game on a 8 threaded chip, and utilisation is at 12.5% then the CPU is likely bottlenecking in some way even though it is nowhere near 100%.

 

[QuietBob]

In most games the graphics card is limited by a single thread of the CPU. In terms of ST performance, the 2700X is on the level of Skylake (6th Gen Core), which is a nine year old architecture at this point. The CPU is holding your 4090 back, which is evidenced by low GPU utilization.

For a quick upgrade, a 5800X3D/5700X3D is your only choice on AM4 -- if your cooling is up to the task. Your RAM is also a bit on the slow side, and you did not specify the latency or capacity. 16 GB may not be enough for some games. Finding an affordable 2x 16 GB 3600CL16 kit shouldn't be a problem though.

Seeing how your monitor is 60 Hz you probably don't care for the highest frame rate. But if you consider purchasing a faster display in the future, a platform upgrade to AM5 or LGA1851 may be necessary to extract maximum fps from the 4090.

 

[dgianstefani]

5800X3D or switch to Arrow Lake.

If you don't have 32 GB of RAM, get 2x16 3600 MT when you move to 5800X3D.

 

[Ruru]

Use google translate, the Finnish hardware site io-tech tested different 8-core Ryzens from Zen1 to 5800X3D and in some scenarios, 5800X3D + 1080 Ti was faster than 1800X + 3080 Ti. So yeah, the CPU is a horrible bottleneck.

Testissä AMD:n Ryzen-prosessorit (2017-2022) - io-tech.fi

Testissä kaikki neljä Ryzen-sukupolvea ja tutustumme lisäksi miten emolevyn, muistien ja näytönohjaimen päivitys vaikuttaa suorituskykyyn.

www.io-tech.fi

5800X3D or switch to Arrow Lake.

If you don't have 32 GB of RAM, get 2x16 3600 MT when you move to 5800X3D.

3200MHz is fine for X3D AFAIK as the larger cache removes some of the RAM bottleneck? But of course 3600MHz is always better.

 

[dgianstefani]

Use google translate, the Finnish hardware site io-tech tested different 8-core Ryzens from Zen1 to 5800X3D and in some scenarios, 5800X3D + 1080 Ti was faster than 1800X + 3080 Ti. So yeah, the CPU is a horrible bottleneck.

Testissä AMD:n Ryzen-prosessorit (2017-2022) - io-tech.fi

Testissä kaikki neljä Ryzen-sukupolvea ja tutustumme lisäksi miten emolevyn, muistien ja näytönohjaimen päivitys vaikuttaa suorituskykyyn.

www.io-tech.fi

3200MHz is fine for X3D AFAIK as the larger cache removes some of the RAM bottleneck? But of course 3600MHz is always better.

I've tested this and RAM speed/timings always influences CPU performance, even with X3D.

 

[Ruru]

I've tested this and RAM speed/timings always influences CPU performance, even with X3D.

Alright, maybe that's a DDR4 thing.

 

[dgianstefani]

Alright, maybe that's a DDR4 thing.

I also had the 5800X3D and paired it with 4000/14 memory.

The cache is only 100 MB, you still want fast RAM.

 

[Tone Ski]

Outstanding thank you everyone, rapid responses and a clear indication I need to look at replacing the cpu for certain,

I've bitten the bullet and gone for the 4090 so may as well look towards a new mobo with AM5 and some new ram as well,

I'd not even considered how inaccurate the way I was monitoring CPU load could be, the information with regards to threads and cores and the examples made sense,

That article really demonstrates the synergy between CPU and GPU as well,

Thank you very much all I really appreciate it,

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Outstanding thank you everyone, rapid responses and a clear indication I need to look at replacing the cpu for certain,

I've bitten the bullet and gone for the 4090 so may as well look towards a new mobo with AM5 and some new ram as well,

I'd not even considered how inaccurate the way I was monitoring CPU load could be, the information with regards to threads and cores and the examples made sense,

That article really demonstrates the synergy between CPU and GPU as well,

Thank you very much all I really appreciate it,

B650E or X670E + 7800X3D paired with some DDR5 6000 CL30 or 32 Ram will sort you out. Your power supply should be perfectly fine being carried over unless its old 'old'.

You can opt for CL30 (basically, the best...) ram if its cheaper, but only if its cheaper. CL32 to CL30 wont make a whole lot of difference when paired with a X3D chip in an gaming environment as the X3D cache will cover for higher latency ram to a certain point. I think you can still go as high as CL36 before it starts impacting performance negatively.

No need to overspend on cooling. A cheap Thermalright Phantom Spirit or Phantom Assassin is all you really need and will work perfectly fine. Get some good thermal paste.

If you want to go 'all in' you can also opt for a 7950X3D but its only worth it if you do a lot of media-encoding or 3D rendering outside of gaming to make use of all the extra cores to really be worth the price tag.

 

[Tone Ski]

Thanks FreedomEclipse,

I have the X670E + 7800X3D currently in my cart, the PSU is only around 3 years old so should be fine,

Was just moving onto doing some research on RAM so your response is appreciated, cooling I should be fine I have a H150i Pro which is probably overkill anyway, I'll get some decent thermal paste though for the new CPU,

I'm a pure gamer so i'll stick to 7800X3D but again do appreciate the response, thank you !

 

[dgianstefani]

Thanks FreedomEclipse,

I have the X670E + 7800X3D currently in my cart, the PSU is only around 3 years old so should be fine,

Was just moving onto doing some research on RAM so your response is appreciated, cooling I should be fine I have a H150i Pro which is probably overkill anyway, I'll get some decent thermal paste though for the new CPU,

I'm a pure gamer so i'll stick to 7800X3D but again do appreciate the response, thank you !

For RAM it can be a good idea to get at least a 7200 MT kit with decent timings, as it means it's likely A die, which is the fastest timings/subtimings wise, second fastest is non-binary so 2x24 GB kits. You can also look for specifically dual rank kits which are slightly faster than single rank.

Run these at 6200 MT.

 

[umeng2002]

My 5800X is barely enough for my 4080 Super. I'm fine with it because I normally use DLSS 3 with ray-tracing, and I have a 75 Hz monitor. So my actual CPU time is for like 37 FPS. Other than Callisto Protocol, I really haven't noticed CPU bottlenecks.

However, a 2700X is totally holding a 4090 back. It's Zen1 or Zen+, same thing, released in 2017. Zen 3 is when Ryzen got good at gaming. Pop a 5800x 3D or 5700X x3D in that mobo and call it a day.

 

[thesmokingman]

You have a bazooka for a gpu and a geo metro for cpu! The bottleneck is about as extreme as I can imagine.

Thanks FreedomEclipse,

I have the X670E + 7800X3D currently in my cart, the PSU is only around 3 years old so should be fine,

Was just moving onto doing some research on RAM so your response is appreciated, cooling I should be fine I have a H150i Pro which is probably overkill anyway, I'll get some decent thermal paste though for the new CPU,

I'm a pure gamer so i'll stick to 7800X3D but again do appreciate the response, thank you !

I recently helped my kid put together his rig, which is exactly what you picked. It's a x670e + 7800x3d paired with his 7900xtx. We also picked 7200mt gskills like recommended above. It's a good combo, not cheap but good.

 

[phanbuey]

time for a 7800x3d - or at least a 5700x3d.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

You already have the 4090 might as well pair it with at least a 7800X3D.... They are a good combination.

 

[Michael97]

Hi everyone! I'm totally new to the world of graphics cards and have no idea how their prices are determined. There are so many different models, and the prices vary a lot. Can someone explain what to look for when choosing one? How do you guys decide whether a certain graphics card is worth buying or not?

 

[dgianstefani]

Hi everyone! I'm totally new to the world of graphics cards and have no idea how their prices are determined. There are so many different models, and the prices vary a lot. Can someone explain what to look for when choosing one? How do you guys decide whether a certain graphics card is worth buying or not?

Look at reviews.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Hi everyone! I'm totally new to the world of graphics cards and have no idea how their prices are determined. There are so many different models, and the prices vary a lot. Can someone explain what to look for when choosing one? How do you guys decide whether a certain graphics card is worth buying or not?

Most of us dont know how prices are determined either. Both Nvidia and AMD are guilty of overcharging for stuff. Some more than others. Most of the time the price will eventually fall in line with the existing price to performance hierarchy of whats currently on the market.

Normally. If Nvidia are charging $800 for a card. Then AMD might come in and offers a card that performs within 90% of Nvidia's card for $750 or 700 etc etc. AMD are normally quite strong in the value for money department but Nvidia hands down has the best feature set. Things like Ray Tracing, DLSS. Ai-upscaling (with recent cards), Hairworks, Tonnes of compute cores and 3rd party app support to leverage them. AMD on the other hand are fairly weak on the software front. Very weak ray tracing support and power to use RT, FSR really isnt in a good place right now Some games use it and its not really that well implemented among those that do. Not a whole lot of support from 3rd party apps like Adobe. AMD do tend to offer more onboard memory with their cards then their Nvidia equivalents though so that could be another reason to go red party. AMD drivers also may not always be that great and have been known to cause extreme hair loss with some customers and TPU members.


find out what resolution you want to game at then read reviews of how they perform at that level and how it stacks up against other cards. Most TPU reviews will give a performance per dollar rating so you'll know if its the best in class for value or not.

 

[ir_cow]

CASE : CORSAIR OBSIDIAN 500D
MONITOR - DELL U2715H - 2560X1440
MOBO - ROG STRIC X470-F GAMING
CPU - RYZEN 7 2700X
RAM - CORSAIR VENGEANCE DDR3 3200MHz DDR4
GPU - AORUS GEFORCE RTX 4090 MASTER
PSU - CORSAIR HX1000I

As others have said your CPU isn't up to the task. I remember when switching from 3800X to 5800X I gained 30% FPS in the GPU benchmarks for reviewing the NVIDIA RTX 3080. The 2000 series is even slower. So I would expect easily 40% gains with a 5800X3D if not more.

5800X3D or switch to Arrow Lake.

If you don't have 32 GB of RAM, get 2x16 3600 MT when you move to 5800X3D.

Exactly. Though cheapest option is just to leave the 3200 in. Who knows if the X470 can handle 3600.

Here you go. 98% FPS increase going to a 5800X3D.

 

[umeng2002]

Hi everyone! I'm totally new to the world of graphics cards and have no idea how their prices are determined. There are so many different models, and the prices vary a lot. Can someone explain what to look for when choosing one? How do you guys decide whether a certain graphics card is worth buying or not?

Look at what the MSRP is for the nVidia Founders card or bog-standard AMD card. Don't pay $50 over it. Premium models for lesser GPUs make no sense. Just get the cheapest 4080 instead of a riced-up 4070.

"Worth getting" is very relative. You should look at what performance you need for your monitor's resolution and what frame rate you are fine with. Then look at the extra bells and whistles that nVidia card's offer over AMD like DLSS 2 and 3 vs FRS or nVidia's superior tweaking ability with Profile Inspector, etc.

For instance, I watch sports on YouTube TV, but their streaming quality is crap compared to normal YouTube because broadcasters don't encode at high resolutions, so a lot of times, I use nVidia's RTX Video Enhancement that uses their DLSS tech to sharpen video. Works quite well. That's an extra feature worth paying nVidia more for. Again, it depends on what you do with your hardware.