TerraMaster F4-424

[TheLostSwede]

The TerraMaster F4-424 is the first Intel Processor N-series NAS we've tested and it proves to be a pretty competent mainstream consumer NAS. Not only does it have two 2.5 Gbps Ethernet ports, but also a pair of NVMe slots and upgradable RAM.

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[csendesmark]

Nice power consumption

With 4 spinning disks drawing ~38W is quite good but
According to WD the WD Red Plus 4 TB (WD40EFPX, I guess you used these) takes 4.7W×4 18.8W
Plus the Intel N95 draws an other 15W max, and the whole rest of the rig uses19,2W
Why did they not choose the N100 instead? That could improve it a lot with 9W less power draw.
Checked the two CPUs on the TPU database and both can do the same, but the N95 wastes extra power for some reason.

 

[Bagerklestyne]

@TheLostSwede The T-Raid is the same as synology hybrid raid.

It slices across the drives
So in the case of 1x 1TB and 2x 2TB it would span the first TB of each drive into a raid 5 (2 TB usable) and then the remaining 1TB of each of the 2 larger drives into a raid 1 (1TB usable) then pool both of those arrays into a 5TB array (3TB usable)

Only time that wastes space is if the largest drive size is a singular drive (the remaining space is usable but has no parity)

Despite the lunacy in the Synology forums, you can replicate anything these hybrid raid modes do with standard raid arrays pooled together. I'll have to make an explanation video with lego for some of the crayon eaters.

It's easier for the less technically inclined, but provides nothing an experienced user/admin can't replicate.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Nice power consumption
View attachment 364049
With 4 spinning disks drawing ~38W is quite good but
According to WD the WD Red Plus 4 TB (WD40EFPX, I guess you used these) takes 4.7W×4 18.8W
Plus the Intel N95 draws an other 15W max, and the whole rest of the rig uses19,2W
Why did they not choose the N100 instead? That could improve it a lot with 9W less power draw.
Checked the two CPUs on the TPU database and both can do the same, but the N95 wastes extra power for some reason.

Cost I guess. I was still hoping for half the power usage in idle, since the N95 has a TDP of 15 W, but apparently it doesn't idle any lower either. Could be a BIOS/UEFI related issue though, who knows. It's not awful, but with such a "basic" SoC, it's still drawing a bit too much power. The N95 is the least power efficient out of the lot.

 

[Wirko]

@TheLostSwede Can you please list the lower speeds that the NICs support? 1 Gbit/s is undoubtedly there but what about 100Mbit/s? It still comes in handy sometimes, just like VGA or PS/2, for troubleshooting, compatibility, excessively long cables, cables that go through lightning protectors, splitters (2x 100M links over one UTP) and other niche or emergency cases.

 

[TheLostSwede]

@TheLostSwede The T-Raid is the same as synology hybrid raid.

Similar you mean? Loads of companies have something like that these days.

It slices across the drives
So in the case of 1x 1TB and 2x 2TB it would span the first TB of each drive into a raid 5 (2 TB usable) and then the remaining 1TB of each of the 2 larger drives into a raid 1 (1TB usable) then pool both of those arrays into a 5TB array (3TB usable)

Only time that wastes space is if the largest drive size is a singular drive (the remaining space is usable but has no parity)

Right.

Despite the lunacy in the Synology forums, you can replicate anything these hybrid raid modes do with standard raid arrays pooled together. I'll have to make an explanation video with lego for some of the crayon eaters.

It's easier for the less technically inclined, but provides nothing an experienced user/admin can't replicate.

I simply included it, as it was the default option TOS 5.1 suggested during setup, which means a lot of people will use it as their default configuration.
I'm not for or against it, just testing the kit and trying to provide as many data points as possible.

@TheLostSwede Can you please list the lower speeds that the NICs support? 1 Gbit/s is undoubtedly there but what about 100Mbit/s? It still comes in handy sometimes, just like VGA or PS/2, for troubleshooting, compatibility, excessively long cables, cables that go through lightning protectors, splitters (2x 100M links over one UTP) and other niche or emergency cases.

The only Ethernet controllers that don't support lower speeds are the old Aquantia ones and they don't support 10 Mbps. All other Ethernet controllers that goes into consumer products, supports all the lower speed grades.

 

[Chrispy_]

Consumer NAS devices are such a mess.

Synology has the best software but they're expensive for what they are and are stuck on ancient 1Gbps ethernet for the lower half of their range which is all a home user would ever be looking at.
QNAP is a good mix of everything but both QTS and QuTS operating systems are spam-tastic and messy, whilst also looking like something out of an iPad interface developed for pre-schoolers.

The other options from Asustor, Terramaster, UGreen etc - they all show so much promise but if the OS has bugs, that really is a show-stopper. The single most vital aspect of always-on network storage is that it's just there, 24/7 and doesn't require constant maintenance or fixing.

It's disappointing to see here that Terramaster still have plenty of work to do on the software side of things, since the hardware and spec is (once again) decent from them. Hopefully TOS 6.0 will address most of my concerns, but I will be looking at reviews of it before even considering Terramaster since the software is what you're buying with a NAS and the hardware is secondary. If people didn't want the software they'd likely roll their own NAS using TrueNAS.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Consumer NAS devices are such a mess.

Synology has the best software but they're expensive for what they are and are stuck on ancient 1Gbps ethernet for the lower half of their range which is all a home user would ever be looking at.
QNAP is a good mix of everything but both QTS and QuTS operating systems are spam-tastic and messy, whilst also looking like something out of an iPad interface developed for pre-schoolers.

The other options from Asustor, Terramaster, UGreen etc - they all show so much promise but if the OS has bugs, that really is a show-stopper. The single most vital aspect of always-on network storage is that it's just there, 24/7 and doesn't require constant maintenance or fixing.

It's disappointing to see here that Terramaster still have plenty of work to do on the software side of things, since the hardware and spec is (once again) decent from them. Hopefully TOS 6.0 will address most of my concerns, but I will be looking at reviews of it before even considering Terramaster since the software is what you're buying with a NAS and the hardware is secondary. If people didn't want the software they'd likely roll their own NAS using TrueNAS.

If you read the conclusion, you would've seen that TOS 6 appears to solve the issues I had, at least it's solved on the F8 SSD Plus that I'm in the middle of testing now.

All of these companies have loads of bugs in their software and both Synology and QNAP have been targeted by drive encryption hacks where their customers lost all their data. I wouldn't really say one company is better than the other on the software side, even though Synology might have the nicest UI/UX.
I used to work for QNAP and if you only knew the kind of BS that got prioritised over things that actually matters at these companies...

That said, having drive performance issues, is a big disappointment and shouldn't be happening this late in the game for TerraMaster.

 

[Chrispy_]

I used to work for QNAP and if you only knew the kind of BS that got prioritised over things that actually matters at these companies...

Oh I have plenty of idea
Lots of friends code for a living - I have contacts at Google, Facebook, Valve, and Blizz/Acti. The stuff they tell me over a pint would make me pull my hair out if I worked there!

Why did they not choose the N100 instead? That could improve it a lot with 9W less power draw.

I'm willing to bet that the on-paper 9W power draw difference is only an on-paper difference.
Intel's ability to accurately reflect the power consumption with their TDP figures is just as bad at the low end as it is at the high end!

 

[csendesmark]

I'm willing to bet that the on-paper 9W power draw difference is only an on-paper difference.
Intel's ability to accurately reflect the power consumption with their TDP figures is just as bad at the low end as it is at the high end!

Maybe, but more than 100% inaccuracy would be really atrocious.

 

[Chrispy_]

Maybe, but more than 100% inaccuracy would be really atrocious.

You mean like a "125W" 14900K sucking down over 400 Watts? That would be really atrocious now, wouldn't it?!

It's a good job Intel don't have that problem and everything is fine with Intel's voltages and power consumption.

On a more serious note, I know TDP != PPT, but typical idle powers are rarely mentioned and those are the pertinent figures to something like a NAS CPU.

 

[Pepamami]

I am glad that we have cases like Jonsbo N2 (or other N1, N3, N4), so you don't have to buy this overpriced NAS crap anymore. With Non-interchangeable network cards, no ECC ram, and cheapest and slowest CPU

 

[TheLostSwede]

I am glad that we have cases like Jonsbo N2 (or other N1, N3, N4), so you don't have to buy this overpriced NAS crap anymore. With Non-interchangeable network cards, no ECC ram, and cheapest and slowest CPU

Sorry, but why do you need ECC RAM? Also, most CPUs don't support ECC RAM.
And I'm glad you're capable of building your own DIY NAS, not everyone is.

 

[Pepamami]

Sorry, but why do you need ECC RAM? Also, most CPUs don't support ECC RAM.
And I'm glad you're capable of building your own DIY NAS, not everyone is.

Building own Nas today is equal to build own PC. Its all the same.
I can understand is it was cheaper or better. But this thing does not worth 500$, it's just a cheap laptop PCB in a generic case, with a limited OS, that u have to change to something better anyway, because no simple ZFS support out of box, and you need ZFS, because btrfs lacks in quallity right now.

People who aren't capable of building own PC/NAS can order one, like they order a pre-build PC. What the problem to order a proper pre-build NAS?

It is suggested to use ECC ram for btrfs or zfs file systems. BTW, if not the price tag, I would never mention that, but I am expecting more for 500$, like SFP+ port.

All AM4 cpu's (without igp) supports ECC ram. Same for AM5, if u take Asrock/Asus MB.
There are alot of Intel CPU's for embedded market, that supports ECC UDIMMs.

If I can't build own NAS, it does not mean that its ok to sell me a piece junk for 500$.

If it was like 250-300$, then yes, good product I leave everyone alone.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Building own Nas today is equal to build own PC. Its all the same.

Not shit sherlock. Yet loads of people have no clue about how to build a PC.

I can understand is it was cheaper or better. But this thing does not worth 500$, it's just a cheap laptop PCB in a generic case, with a limited OS, that u have to change to something better anyway, because no simple ZFS support out of box, and you need ZFS, because btrfs lacks in quallity right now.

It clearly is for a lot of people, as they don't have the ability or time to build their own NAS.
And no, it's not just a cheap laptop PCB in a generic case. All of the NAS appliances have custom motherboards and most a SATA backplane.
Ah yes, another ZFS zealot.

People who aren't capable of building own PC/NAS can order one, like they order a pre-build PC. What the problem to order a proper pre-build NAS?

Sorry, why makes this not a proper NAS? A single hard drive with an Ethernet port is not a NAS imho, but this is a NAS.

It is suggested to use ECC ram for btrfs or zfs file systems. BTW, if not the price tag, I would never mention that, but I am expecting more for 500$, like SFP+ port.

So you're just drinking the cool aid in other words, without understanding anything about why ECC is being pushed by a small and very vocal community on the internet.
SFP+ is also useless for 99.999999999999999999999% of people this device is targetting.

All AM4 cpu's (without igp) supports ECC ram. Same for AM5, if u take Asrock/Asus MB.
There are alot of Intel CPU's for embedded market, that supports ECC UDIMMs.

Yet the motherboards don't...

If I can't build own NAS, it does not mean that its ok to sell me a piece junk for 500$

As much as this had some issues on the software side, it's not a piece of junk, but ok dude.

 

[csendesmark]

You mean like a "125W" 14900K sucking down over 400 Watts? That would be really atrocious now, wouldn't it?!

It's a good job Intel don't have that problem and everything is fine with Intel's voltages and power consumption.

On a more serious note, I know TDP != PPT, but typical idle powers are rarely mentioned and those are the pertinent figures to something like a NAS CPU.

On the 14900K's case I would argue that has got a smaller number for a different reason.

 

[Pepamami]

As much as this had some issues on the software side, it's not a piece of junk, but ok dude.

This is a product with 0 efforts. Cheapest generic CPU on market, placed in old case, using cheapest ASmedia/realtek controllers for everything.
For 500$ its overpriced junk.

Ah yes, another ZFS zealot.

If u have a better FS for HDD, with data scrubbing/verification and compression, I am all ears. And yes, I would like to have ECC ram, when my NAS works with my data.

SFP+ is also useless for 99.999999999999999999999% of people this device is targetting.

Market has ton of 2.5g Switches with upstream SFP+ ports. SFP+ is even more common than 10G rj45. And NAS is a perfect candidate for this port.

All of the NAS appliances have custom motherboards and most a SATA backplane.

its just a laptop alike PCB, every laptop has a custom PCB, where u can only replace memory and m2 devices.

Sorry, why makes this not a proper NAS? A single hard drive with an Ethernet port is not a NAS imho, but this is a NAS.

If u make it 2 times expensive, looks like.

Yet the motherboards don't...

Asrock, Asus and Gigabyte supports AM4 UDIMM ECC with 0 problems. Because some companies like Intel refuse to add ECC for retail customers does not mean that ECC is some kind of huge and expensive deal.

I would have no problem with this product, because I would never buy a piece of crap like this, I can go with DAS instead if I am limited on money or time. But 500$ for this is a scam, sorry. N95, very funny.

No wonder that Node 304 and Jonsbo N1-N4 are so successful.

Edit: You can even implement In-Band ECC, if u want to cheap out as much as possible. Its supported since kernel 5.11, and N95 should support it.

Why did they not choose the N100 instead? That could improve it a lot with 9W less power draw.

prob coz N100 does not have "Embedded Options Available" ®™

 

[Bagerklestyne]

Similar you mean? Loads of companies have something like that these days.

I think anyone of them worth their salt has their own version of it. Only thing I'm unaware of from company to company is if their "proprietary" raids are mountable under a vanilla nix distro if the hardware fails and you want to recover the array/data.

To the rest of the thread talking about DIY nas'ing it, not always the best solution.

I spent equivalent to 1000 usd for my DS1821+ (Syno unit 8 bay) and I have an 80TB (give or take) solution to serve up media, back up phones/pc that uses about 50w actively and about 10-12w when idle. I couldn't build a DIY solution with the same offerings for better money, this is where solutions like the Terramaster come into play.

I've got a cpu that handles all the tasks I need (raid parity calc, pihole, jellyfin and a few other minor backup utils), 8 hot swappable bays, raid 6 capable, a small physical foot print, low power usage and an easy recovery path if the hardware goes belly up.

Coupled with suitable mobile apps for interaction/admin and a polish and simple to use interface that's web based by design.

This creates a strong appeal for people like me, and going further along the only upgrades I would want is more space which I can do by swapping in new drives at a suitable price point.

Building my own unit is a hard sell with no actualised payoff and I've been doing hardware for 3 decades now

 

[Pepamami]

To the rest of the thread talking about DIY nas'ing it, not always the best solution.

Yes, it is not always. Some people don't need fancy ZFS, some people OK with 2.5gb ports, some people have no time or skills.

But I can't recommend a 500$ device with a sub-200$ chipset and hardware to anyone. And expect way more for 500$ and year 2024 product.

I couldn't build a DIY solution with the same offerings for better money

you can now, its now all about ur free time and skills.

Building my own unit is a hard sell with no actualised payoff and I've been doing hardware for 3 decades now

My main problem, that btrfs still have some issues with performance and features. So it was an ez choice to move to diy.

Today you can google a lot of builds, made by other people. White Jonsbo N2 is my fav one. With a good qaullity PSU and some Noctua Fan.
500$ outdated Terramaster just looks sad and ugly. I mean why they can't add an additional panel infront to hide these 4 ugly bricks, even a server chassis now does this xd.

 

[Bagerklestyne]

you can now, its now all about ur free time and skills.


My main problem, that btrfs still have some issues with performance and features. So it was an ez choice to move to diy.

Today you can google a lot of builds, made by other people. White Jonsbo N2 is my fav one. With a good qaullity PSU and some Noctua Fan.
500$ outdated Terramaster just looks sad and ugly. I mean why they can't add an additional panel infront to hide these 4 ugly bricks, even a server chassis now does this xd.

I see what you're saying but in my use case.
hot swap 8 bay (expandable to 18 bays - I'm current using a single expansion unit so I have 12 drives in use) I've definitely made use of the nil downtime advantage over the years
sub 200w power draw
a curated operating system with native apps both local to the system and android apps
4 gigabit ports (I have limited use cases for 2.5 or faster but I can drop in a 10gig card if I need it) but the extra ports are helpful

I have more than adequate skills and ran my own DIY prior to moving to Synology (the savings to be had were minimal when I migrated over (about 1/3 the cost of a single drive I populated it with, or at that point about 4% TCO with no guarantee that all components would have been compatible without issue) so it's a hard sell when the time spent ordering parts, building, installing and curating the os the way I need it amounts to a few hours that I can earn more money to cover the difference then spend the rest doing other things.

Cost benefit and time invested are always important. No point saving $100 for 4 hours of work which in the end provides no additional benefit to me.

To that end people with a weaker skillset will find themselves over paying for parts, spending more time building and configuring so ending up with a far less optimal solution. This is where these devices have a markedly stronger appeal. Companies who build them can somewhat bank on that (the I don't know so I'll pay someone who does angle)

edit - what issues have you had with BTRFS ? (Also yeah, the aesthetic for this unit isn't for me)

 

[Pepamami]

edit - what issues have you had with BTRFS ? (Also yeah, the aesthetic for this unit isn't for me)

random slowdowns and lags (especially when 20% space left), some times btrfs IO really hits the ground.
no native raid support
Can't select specific compression mode for specific folder (most annoying actually).
Also zfs allows to choose record sizes, which is very handy with compression and/or hdd.

ZFS is feels like was designed for NAS.

less optimal solution

The point, that I can't call F4-424 optimal solution either, it feels very overpriced, and when you ask why, people say "oh because its a niche".
Idk feels like abuse of consumers, because they are limited on choices. ("not every one can DIY" thing)
I think people deserves better than this crap with sub-200$ hardware.