ASUS ROG Crosshair X870E Hero

[Dr. Dro]

honest question, why? wouldnt it be better if the board was $20 cheaper, and the the 0.1% that need a second port can buy a $10 5G USB adapter?

I mean, it'd certainly help differentiate it from say, the STRIX-E models which usually offer almost everything the ROG Hero tends to at a nicer price. These boards are plenty expensive as is, so I don't see why not. This generation's STRIX-E even includes an external clock generator and the 18+2+2 phase VRM, it's basically just missing the Hero branding and the extra NIC

ROG STRIX X870E-E GAMING WIFI | Gaming motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global

The ROG Strix X870E-E Gaming WiFi elevates builds with 18 power stages, DDR5 slots and extensive PCIe 5.0 connectivity. It features five M.2 SSD slots with heatsinks, USB4® support, WiFi 7, AI Overclo

rog.asus.com

 

[csendesmark]

honest question, why? wouldnt it be better if the board was $20 cheaper, and the the 0.1% that need a second port can buy a $10 5G USB adapter?

Since the 2.5Gbps is finally became standard,
I would expect a high-end, top self, eXXrtemeX board to do more than that.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

This MB didn't have 10GB LAN. 5+2.5.

 

[Vincero]

What if you want dual DisplayPort AND USB-C 40Gb/s?
Obviously on this board that looks unlikely (unless there is a USB-C hub that allows both maybe with some bandwidth reduction), but is that a SoC limitation?

EDIT: Having looked in to it, it would seem it's vendor choice on how they do this - the USB4/40Gb/s is from additional chip eating away some PCIe lanes from CPU SoC - DP can be routed through this as a choice (it would seem).
I was under the impression that the I/O blocks on the AM5 IO-die were USB3 & multi-purpose - assuming they are combining bandwidth links together for 40Gb/s but not sure why DP has to be routed with it also?
Are we likely to see other boards with distinct DP sockets and distinct USB 40Gb/s?

 

[Dr. Dro]

Since the 2.5Gbps is finally became standard,
I would expect a high-end, top self, eXXrtemeX board to do more than that.

That too, but the board W1zz envisioned pretty much already exists (the STRIX-E). I guess they leave some stuff on the table intentionally for the eventual Dark Hero or something.

 

[FrozenPie1]

honest question, why? wouldnt it be better if the board was $20 cheaper, and the the 0.1% that need a second port can buy a $10 5G USB adapter?

Why not spinning that further? Fully modularizing the I/O-Panel of the Board using a bunch of PCIe x1/x2/x4 Slots with varying standards (3.0 to 5.0) in that area. You would buy the connection modules and can freely configure your Boards external connections however you want. The modules would probably be more expensive than a full integration but you would be much more flexible and could only buy the connections you need.

But that's likely never going to happen as the argument to buy the more expensive boards would be weakened too much...

 

[TheLostSwede]

A $700 mainboard should have DUAL 10Gbps ethernet. It's damn near 2025.

At ~$30 a pop for the chips vs. ~$5 for a 5 Gbps chip from Realtek, I believe the motherboard makers don't agree with you.

 

[Vincero]

Since the 2.5Gbps is finally became standard,
I would expect a high-end, top self, eXXrtemeX board to do more than that.

Problem is that will eat away at the available PCIe lanes from the SoC - having the 2.5Gb/s LAN is actually a waste in that any of the available PCIe lanes could support higher speeds....

BUT when you have that many M.2 slots they become the priority. Not having looked at a block diagram of how Asus have wired it up, it wouldn't surprise me if at least one (if not both) of the LAN adapters are wired to the X870 chipset instead of using the direct CPU lanes.
As that is only wired to the CPU over a x4 PCIe4 link, you could easily conceivably saturate that link using both LAN adapters and an M.2 doing data transfer....
If they wired in a 10Gb/s LAN that only adds to the potential (let alone 2 of them)... the platform is practically bandwidth limited to be able to do that unless you drop using the CPU M.2 lanes or USB4 capability.

 

[TheLostSwede]

What if you want dual DisplayPort AND USB-C 40Gb/s?

Uhm, the integrated GPU only supports three display outputs, which this board already has.

I was under the impression that the I/O blocks on the AM5 IO-die were USB3 & multi-purpose - assuming they are combining bandwidth links together for 40Gb/s but not sure why DP has to be routed with it also?
Are we likely to see other boards with distinct DP sockets and distinct USB 40Gb/s?

Huh? The USB4 is not integrated into the CPU, it's via the ASMedia ASM4242 as per the review. You can't combine USB 3.2 I/O lanes to get USB4, only two 10 Gbps USB 3.2 Gen 2 lanes into one 20 Gbps USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 port.
No, we're not, unless the board only has one USB4 port.

 

[ir_cow]

Great review overall. Any plans to test memroy support?

 

[Vincero]

Uhm, the integrated GPU only supports three display outputs, which this board already has.

Huh? The USB4 is not integrated into the CPU, it's via the ASMedia ASM4242 as per the review.

You're missing the point of the question - what if you want seperate DP ports and USB4 ports - no need for dongles, no need for compromises somewhere. I.e. you have two (or more) DP monitors and some USB4 devices you want to connect and you don't exactly like the idea of buying an overpriced USB4 hub thing...

Yes, I already edited my post once I re-read it - still seems like it's up to the manufacturer - I can see the appeal either way of piping DP through a USB-C link or just using the USB-C link and having any USB-C to DP/HDMI/DVI/VGA adapter that you want to use - low-cost DisplayPort adapters for all those exist and can be carried forward in terms of just using the USB-C connector with DP.
Likewise, I can see the appeal of not needing a intermediate splitter or hub or something.

 

[TheLostSwede]

BUT when you have that many M.2 slots they become the priority. Not having looked at a block diagram of how Asus have wired it up, it wouldn't surprise me if at least one (if not both) of the LAN adapters are wired to the X870 chipset instead of using the direct CPU lanes.

They're both fine with a PCIe 3.0 each, so it's not an issue and they're obviously going via the chipset due to this. Unlike Intel, AMD doesn't have a dedicated LAN interface, so it's all just PCIe.

As that is only wired to the CPU over a x4 PCIe4 link, you could easily conceivably saturate that link using both LAN adapters and an M.2 doing data transfer....

So far, no-one appears to have had an issue, since we have things like DMA helping to reduce the risk of such things.

If they wired in a 10Gb/s LAN that only adds to the potential (let alone 2 of them)... the platform is practically bandwidth limited to be able to do that unless you drop using the CPU M.2 lanes or USB4 capability.

Well, they'd use single PCIe 4.0 lane for 10 Gbps or two PCIe 3.0 lanes. I have a 10 Gbps card in my system and it's obviously not causing anything to bottleneck.

 

[csendesmark]

Not having looked at a block diagram of how Asus have wired it up

That is a big shame, I love that Gigabyte giving the block diagram to be able to see how things are.
ASUS should release that info too.
Some of the stuff can be deduced from the "Tech Specs" but not everything

I don't recall where, but I remember that the ProArt X870E-CREATOR WIFI's 10Gbps LAN is wired directly to the CPU
And I think the second LAN adapter with the 2.5Gbps is a waste...

 

[TheLostSwede]

You're missing the point of the question - what if you want seperate DP ports and USB4 ports - no need for dongles, no need for compromises somewhere. I.e. you have two (or more) DP monitors and some USB4 devices you want to connect and you don't exactly like the idea of buying an overpriced USB4 hub thing...

Not missing the point, I understand what you want, but you can't have it, since it's not how things work. Most monitors with USB-C support DP over the USB-C interface, so no need for dongles or adapters. You can also get USB-C to DP cables. There are exactly zero USB4 monitors in the market today.

Yes, I already edited my post once I re-read it - still seems like it's up to the manufacturer - I can see the appeal either way of piping DP through a USB-C link or just using the USB-C link and having any USB-C to DP/HDMI/DVI/VGA adapter that you want to use - low-cost DisplayPort adapters for all those exist and can be carried forward in terms of just using the USB-C connector with DP.
Likewise, I can see the appeal of not needing a intermediate splitter or hub or something.

And you expect me to notice that while I'm writing replies?
And it's not up to the manufacturer, USB4 requires DP support on the host side. It's not required on the device side, but it's also required by hubs.

That is a big shame, I love that Gigabyte giving the block diagram to be able to see how things are.
ASUS should release that info too.
Some of the stuff can be deduced from the "Tech Specs" but not everything

All motherboard makers should be required to provide block diagrams in the manuals.

I don't recall where, but I remember that the ProArt X870E-CREATOR WIFI's 10Gbps LAN is wired directly to the CPU
And I think the second LAN adapter with the 2.5Gbps is a waste...

It's pointless connecting the Ethernet to the CPU, it simply doesn't need that much bandwidth.

 

[Vincero]

They're both fine with a PCIe 3.0 each, so it's not an issue and they're obviously going via the chipset due to this. Unlike Intel, AMD doesn't have a dedicated LAN interface, so it's all just PCIe.

So far, no-one appears to have had an issue, since we have things like DMA helping to reduce the risk of such things.

Well, they'd use single PCIe 4.0 lane for 10 Gbps or two PCIe 3.0 lanes. I have a 10 Gbps card in my system and it's obviously not causing anything to bottleneck.

That's hardly the scenario I'm pointing at - if any M.2 devices connected to the chipset chip are working at full tilt, any other devices hanging off that chipset chip are gonna start hitting throughput limits.
Although not likely to be a common scenario, if you were copying from one M.2 drive to another (which is chipset connected / lets ignore the big boy CPU PCIe5 ones) and also trying to stream data from the network, something is gonna loose out. DMA will only get you so far and, generally speaking, disk IO has a lot lower overhead than network IO (I don't care how much TCP offload capability there is - LAN devices eat a lot more CPU cycles).

I'm not saying they can't take advantage of a 10Gb/s or 2x10Gb/s devices - my point is simply you *could* hit the chipset performance limit without bring that into the mix.

And you expect me to notice that while I'm writing replies?
And it's not up to the manufacturer, USB4 requires DP support on the host side. It's not required on the device side, but it's also required by hubs.

No, I don't expect you to automatically notice but I'm also not being critical about you for it so....

That is a bit of an annoyance regarding that being a requirement - it's not like USB4 speed/protocol would fail without it being there, but standards are standards... it's not like USB hubs are exactly cheap right now - ok they aren't ridiculously expensive but not everyone will have a new USB-C DP monitor - there may be a few of us who have say 1440p displays that are not that old who plan to keep using them for a while yet

 

[TheLostSwede]

That's hardly the scenario I'm pointing at - if any M.2 devices connected to the chipset chip are working at full tilt, any other devices hanging off that chipset chip are gonna start hitting throughput limits.

You mean like when I test NAS appliances? Never been an issue.

Although not likely to be a common scenario, if you were copying from one M.2 drive to another (which is chipset connected / lets ignore the big boy CPU PCIe5 ones) and also trying to stream data from the network, something is gonna loose out. DMA will only get you so far and, generally speaking, disk IO has a lot lower overhead than network IO (I don't care how much TCP offload capability there is - LAN devices eat a lot more CPU cycles).

Done it, didn't notice any slowdown.

I'm not saying they can't take advantage of a 10Gb/s or 2x10Gb/s devices - my point is simply you *could* hit the chipset performance limit without bring that into the mix.

Huh?

Please see link below for how the chipset and CPU lanes are laid out.

AMD Zen 4 & Socket AM5 Explained: PCIe Lanes, Chipsets, Connectivity

There has been a fair bit of confusion about AMD's upcoming AM5 platform when it comes to connectivity and we're going to break things down and explain what the difference is between the B650 and X670 boards. We're also going to cover the processor connectivity, since that's an integral part of...

www.techpowerup.com

That is a bit of an annoyance regarding that being a requirement - it's not like USB4 speed/protocol would fail without it being there, but standards are standards... it's not like USB hubs are exactly cheap right now - ok they aren't ridiculously expensive but not everyone will have a new USB-C DP monitor - there may be a few of us who have say 1440p displays that are not that old who plan to keep using them for a while yet

It's also a requirement for Thunderbolt. USB4 is partially based on Thunderbolt 3. The difference is that USB4 does tunneling, Thunderbolt does DP Alt mode, like USB 3.2. It doesn't really affect how it works for end users though.
So far there's only one USB4 hub chip from Realtek.
You can use the same USB-C to DP Alt mode cables for USB4 and there are plenty ones that does 4K 144 Hz, not that it'll matter with this board if Asus has limited it to 60 Hz output.

 

[ir_cow]

I see you pointed out ASUS is wrong about the VDD_MISC using Vishay Sic639 50A instead of 80A. Can't find anything on their website that indicates either way. All pages just say 18(110)+2(110)+2. For reference the X670E Hero used Renesas ISL99390 (90 A) for that rail.

 

[csendesmark]

It's pointless connecting the Ethernet to the CPU, it simply doesn't need that much bandwidth.

My bad, I confused USB4 with 10Gbps LAN in my head

 

[Sarajiel]

At ~$30 a pop for the chips vs. ~$5 for a 5 Gbps chip from Realtek

Obviously not a problem for the ProArt series. And to be honest, $30 per 10GbE sounds actually quite cheap, considering that the supposedly "cheap" AIC with the Marvell/Aquantia AQtion AQC113CS chips still cost €80 - €150. Those are the ones that could in theory plugged into Gen3 x2 or Gen4 x1, unlike the "premium" chips that require Gen2 x8 connections.

I don't recall where, but I remember that the ProArt X870E-CREATOR WIFI's 10Gbps LAN is wired directly to the CPU

I'm pretty sure it's connected to the chipset, since AMD doesn't allow manufacturers to turn the first Gen5 x4 M.2 slot into something else on X870E.

All motherboard makers should be required to provide block diagrams in the manuals.

Totally agree, but why would they do that? Outside a bunch of nerds like us, the normie user doesn't really care until slots or some ports get disabled.

@Combatus @W1zzard

Please add and clarify the bifurcation table of that board, since the PCIe x16 slots can bifurcate in multiple ways according to page 15 of the manual:
- Gen5 x16 slot, (no additional Gen5 M.2s)
- 2x Gen x8 slot, (no additional Gen5 M.2s)
- Gen5 x8 slot + Gen5 x4 slot + Gen5 x4 M.2
- Gen5 x8 slot + 2x Gen5 x4 M.2

Also, where is the performance test of the USB4 ports?

 

[csendesmark]

I'm pretty sure it's connected to the chipset, since AMD doesn't allow manufacturers to turn the first Gen5 x4 M.2 slot into something else on X870E.

Yup,
I took it back, I meant USB4

 

[Vincero]

You mean like when I test NAS appliances? Never been an issue.

PCIe4 x4 is limited to just under 8GB/s - if both the M.2 PCIe4 sockets are connected ultimately via the CPU<->X870 PCIe4x4 link, just one of those M.2 sockets can (effectively) almost saturate that link.
Assuming you have 2 reasonably half-decent PCIe4 SSDs installed, any attempt to use them in some sort of strip array will struggle to scale higher than 1x the performance of a single drive.

NAS devices aren't exactly apples to apples comparison due to obvious limiting factors that dictate design and obscure potential hardware limits.
I'm not saying it's an issue for them, but in most cases with NAS devices the LAN is the performance limit - until you had a NAS device higher than 1Gb/s LAN the NAS could have SATA connected drives and the LAN connection is still the limiting factor. If there's a NAS device where that isn't the case and the LAN connection is waiting on the storage devices, it's a crap device.

Unless you can show me a review of an X870 chipset board somehow pulling more than 8GB/s through the non-CPU connected PCIe lanes, there exists a theoretical limit I can't see being overcome without more PCIe lanes. As I said before (but maybe wasn't quite clear enough), 2x 10Gb/s LAN controllers are NOT going to be a problem - the problem is that there is potential to bandwidth starve the platform as-is so throwing 2x 10Gb/s LAN chips on there could impact that.
To quote myself:

you could easily conceivably saturate that link using both LAN adapters and an M.2 doing data transfer....

I'm not saying they can't take advantage of a 10Gb/s or 2x10Gb/s devices - my point is simply you *could* hit the chipset performance limit without bring that into the mix.

AM5 is just a little lacking to be a proper HEDT platform with lots of IO - at this point in time multiple 10Gb/s LAN is still seen as a bit of something that would be HEDT so I can semi see why they didn't bother. That's not to be interpreted as me saying the platform can't handle such a thing, etc., etc. - if anything Asus can go nuts and make multiple variants with all sorts of combinations (that's what they do at the low-end, why should the high-end be any different) - build it and they will come.
But on the flip side why bother with the Intel 2.5G - why not just have 2x5Gb/s connections?? Without seeing a BOM it's impossible to know but I doubt that the Intel 2.5G connection parts are that much cheaper than the Realtek 5G parts and as this isn't a HEDT / Workstation / 'certified' board these days not as many care if it's an Intel NIC... Surely that would help make the UEFI programming a bit easier also - one less set of UEFI code parts to add for the LAN boot from either adapter...

 

[xorbe]

Did Asus fix their high pitch whine? Last gen I moved away from $$$ Asus and got a $179 AsRock board.

 

[xSneak]

Performance wise:
It would be interesting if this board got more out of the "curve shaper" feature that was introduced on the 9000 series platform. I see the bios settings for it in that preivew picture I think.

https://cdn.skatterbencher.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/99353_1006_amd-explains-zen-5-based-ryzen-9000-oc-details-curve-shaper-unveiled-for-improved-undervolting_full.png

or some other kind of cpu oc test / vrm heatsink temperature test.

Maybe testing the board with 192 GB to see how it handles it or testing it with a really high end kit of memory to see if the board adds any daily mem OC capabilities (you would need a golden sample cpu).

Feature wise:
I guess for these kind of reviews It would be useful to know how good the audio amp / dac is since that is one of the feature adds they are using to justify the price.
I think the review should include a video of the led lightshow on the board.
At $700 I would expect this motherboard to support those small lcd displays people have been putting inside their cases and to run custom videos / pictures on it.
I think the review should list the price in the specifications table on the first page.

---​

As far as the dual nic complaint, i'm not sure how stable those 10gbe marvell aquantia nics are to use by themselves; it would have to be an intel x550 based nic to trust solo imo. You would still need to get a 10gbe switch and networking knowledge to connect it to your media server to reach that speed. Fortunately the price has came down on the 10gbe switches.
I think dual nics are better since you can choose which one is the most reliable to use as your main pc connection, then use the other to route to your home NAS setup.
An add in card would drop the x16 lanes down to x8 / x8 speed so it is somewhat of a dilemma.


Thanks for the content. I always have my ad blocker turned off for this website.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Obviously not a problem for the ProArt series. And to be honest, $30 per 10GbE sounds actually quite cheap, considering that the supposedly "cheap" AIC with the Marvell/Aquantia AQtion AQC113CS chips still cost €80 - €150. Those are the ones that could in theory plugged into Gen3 x2 or Gen4 x1, unlike the "premium" chips that require Gen2 x8 connections.

Admittedly the $30 cost is a guestimate on my side as the older AQC107 was going for north of $40. I can't find the price for the AQC113, but the AQR113 PHY is going for $18, so another $12 for the MAC seems reasonable in a single chip solution.

Totally agree, but why would they do that? Outside a bunch of nerds like us, the normie user doesn't really care until slots or some ports get disabled.

At least "normies" can then look in the manual and maybe at least guess why it happened?

 

[Mr. Perfect]

I can't say that I've seen a WiFi module quite like that one before. Is it upgradeable? Is there a standard 2230 PCIe WiFi card inside that metal box?