USB4 2.0 Cables Capable of 80 Gbps Data and Power Delivery of 60 W and 240 W, Get Certified

[TheLostSwede]

Question (I've dug and can't find anything)

Any ideas what the maximum high refresh rates (above 60hz) alt modes can drive screens at ?

The same as DP can do, that's why it's called DP Alternative mode.

BTW is it possible for USB PD cables to offer better than USB 2 data speed?

Yes, obviously. I mean, that's what this press release is about...

The problem is that the cable industry is a minefield. So many "USB PD charging cables" are just intended for charging only and offer the bare minimum data connectivity.

If you want to buy a cable that's both charging and high speed data transfer, you really need to hunt through a lot of other cables wherever you're shopping because every manufacturer makes and sells 20 different charging-only cables for each PD-capable high-bandwidth cable.

The masses charging their phones and tablets from a wall adapter vastly outnumber those who are trying to use aftermarket USB cables to transfer data from fast devices. WiFi and ethernet are the default data transfer mechanisms for most people and half the population doesn't even realise USB can be used for data transfer at all!

Not really, you just search for USB4, as there are currently no USB4 cables that also don't do USB PD at 240 W.

But agreed, most cables are charging plus USB 2.0, for the simple reason that they end up being slimmer cables, for up to 60 W charging at least.

 

[Chrispy_]

Not really, you just search for USB4, as there are currently no USB4 cables that also don't do USB PD at 240 W.

But agreed, most cables are charging plus USB 2.0, for the simple reason that they end up being slimmer cables, for up to 60 W charging at least.

Yeah, if you know the spec that's what you do.

Most people search for USB-C because USB4 isn't a term their devices use. Laptops and desktop PCs aren't listed as USB4, they're listed as Type-A or Type-C and sometimes the speed in Gbps. If you know that TB4 must also mean it's a USB4 port, then you already know enough to search for USB4, which elevates your awareness of the USB-IF's mess far beyond the average buyer.

 

[Nhonho]

Ok, please provide a mechanical drawing/picture of a USB-C connector, for cables, that doesn't have a PCB inside them then.
Not just the header, but the full connector with wire interface.

I think you'll find that they all look something like this.

View attachment 366372
Or this
View attachment 366374

Neither kind above, is for 5A power and thus doesn't incorporate the E-Marker.

This only costs a few cents or less to manufacture.

 

[TheLostSwede]

This only costs a few cents or less to manufacture.

Except it clearly cost a LOT more than the freaking pin headers, which is what the discussion was about.
Maybe read the entire discussion before you butt in a go NO! like a child? I guess your avatar is appropriate though.
And yes, it might only be 30 cents to make, but it never costs that in the end, when you as a consumer buys something, does it?

Yeah, if you know the spec that's what you do.

Most people search for USB-C because USB4 isn't a term their devices use. Laptops and desktop PCs aren't listed as USB4, they're listed as Type-A or Type-C and sometimes the speed in Gbps. If you know that TB4 must also mean it's a USB4 port, then you already know enough to search for USB4, which elevates your awareness of the USB-IF's mess far beyond the average buyer.

View attachment 366474

I'm not saying they made it easy and that screenshot made the laugh.
At least HP is telling you every feature on offer...

Question though, would you prefer we go back to the 1990's when we had five different ports or more for everything we wanted to connect to a computer?

 

[Nhonho]

30 cents to make

30 cents is the cost of manufacturing the entire cable.

 

[TheLostSwede]

30 cents is the cost of manufacturing the entire cable.

Yeah, no.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

30 cents is the cost of manufacturing the entire cable.

$0.97 price from manufacturer in 2018 when buy more than 1000 units(This is not BOM, this is sale price). But in 2018 USB-c was something premium. Today is something usual.

 

[Chrispy_]

Question though, would you prefer we go back to the 1990's when we had five different ports or more for everything we wanted to connect to a computer?

God no, USB is fantastic - but it's just getting more complicated and confusing with each additional specification and feature that gets added to it.

 

[TheLostSwede]

God no, USB is fantastic - but it's just getting more complicated and confusing with each additional specification and feature that gets added to it.

Well, it's partially Intel we have to thanks for that, as Thunderbolt could've been the next USB years ago, but instead they kept it proprietary until they realised that most people weren't buying it.
So they "donated" Thunderbolt 3 to the USB-IF with half a manual and some features missing and called it USB4, just so they can claim compatibility, while also claiming to offer a better standard...

 

[Bagerklestyne]

The same as DP can do, that's why it's called DP Alternative mode.

So an 80gbs connection can do an uncompressed 4k stream @ 240hz, if so that is cool but has me questioning the value/merit of any other type of display connection going forward. Because everything I can find about alt mode says 4k caps out at 60hz regardless of usb spec

https://www.club-3d.com/en/technology/15/usb_c_over_alt_mode/ (as a citable example)

 

[TheLostSwede]

$0.97 price from manufacturer in 2018 when buy more than 1000 units(This is not BOM, this is sale price). But in 2018 USB-c was something premium. Today is something usual.

You clearly don't get the difference between cables and cables either.
That might apply to USB 2.0 cables with up to 60 W charging, but nothing else.
I can bet those cables will fail within three months as well.

So an 80gbs connection can do an uncompressed 4k stream @ 240hz, if so that is cool but has me questioning the value/merit of any other type of display connection going forward. Because everything I can find about alt mode says 4k caps out at 60hz regardless of usb spec

https://www.club-3d.com/en/technology/15/usb_c_over_alt_mode/ (as a citable example)

Does this answer your question?

TL;DR USB4 40 Gbps tops out at 4K 120 Hz-ish at 8-bit, whereas USB4 80 Gbps can do 4K 240 Hz at 10-bit, well, technically a bit higher refresh rate, but I haven't seen any 260 or 265 Hz monitors with 4K resolution. This is without DSC.

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Realtek Demos First USB4 Hub Controller at Computex 2023

So far it has been very quiet on the market when it comes to USB4 hubs, with most products being based on Intel Thunderbolt hardware costing Thunderbolt money. Realtek was demoing its RTS5490 "hub router controller" at Computex and it's as far as we're aware, the first USB4 hub IC that has been...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[TumbleGeorge]

That might apply to USB 2.0 cables with up to 60 W charging, but nothing else

For USB-C 3.1.
Ps. 10-20 cents for micro USB type b.

 

[TheLostSwede]

For USB-C 3.1.
Ps. 10-20 cents for micro USB type b.

Unlikely, but they're more expensive now, as copper prices have gone up a lot since then.
Cheapest cables last year, admittedly not made in xina, was US$2.90 for 1 meter, although that was nice braided cables.

No-ones wants micro USB, those are too easy to break.

 

[Bagerklestyne]

You clearly don't get the difference between cables and cables either.
That might apply to USB 2.0 cables with up to 60 W charging, but nothing else.
I can bet those cables will fail within three months as well.


Does this answer your question?

TL;DR USB4 40 Gbps tops out at 4K 120 Hz-ish at 8-bit, whereas USB4 80 Gbps can do 4K 240 Hz at 10-bit, well, technically a bit higher refresh rate, but I haven't seen any 260 or 265 Hz monitors with 4K resolution. This is without DSC.
View attachment 366588

Very specifically the last line does. Thanks I was REALLY looking for information on that. Now with usb being able to carry suitable high end video stream I wonder if hdmi/dp convert to type c is going to become a commonality.

Obviously I don't expect a video card with a usb c output to be able to deliver higher end power but it's possible and they're already drawing substantial power.

No DSC mentioned, but surely that's an option too.

I wonder if this new standard will be able to carry 80 gigabit over longer distances than dp2.1 variants currently can.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Very specifically the last line does. Thanks I was REALLY looking for information on that. Now with usb being able to carry suitable high end video stream I wonder if hdmi/dp convert to type c is going to become a commonality.

That way around requires extra power to drive the chips inside the cable.

Obviously I don't expect a video card with a usb c output to be able to deliver higher end power but it's possible and they're already drawing substantial power.

So far it seems like USB-C on graphics cards have flopped, partially because Nvidia pushed VirtualLink on the RTX 2000-series and it's a dead standards, partially because no OEM did it on AMD cards, so only the AMD cards had it.

No DSC mentioned, but surely that's an option too.

Yes, it's an option as well, since it's part of the DP standard.

I wonder if this new standard will be able to carry 80 gigabit over longer distances than dp2.1 variants currently can.

Right now, it seems like 1.2-1.5 meters is where passive copper cables have their limit, but there might be active cables, as well as optical cable that can go further.

@Bagerklestyne this is from one ofthe new Z890 boards product page:

It confirms 4K 240 Hz over USB4 if nothing else.