Adding some hardware, and just wanted a few questions answered.

[Iceni]

Hey,

I'm adding some hardware to my existing PC and wanted to bend your ears with a few questions.

Current PC.

Ryzen 3600
MSI MPG Gaming X570
16Gb (2x8) Adata XPG D60 3600Mhz
0.5TB Adata M.2
Montech King 95 pro
Montech D24 Air cooler
Coolermaster 750W.
3x 27"1080P monitors @ 5870x1920

Current GPU
GTX 970.

Windows 10 pro 22H2.



I have ordered a new graphics card. It's an XFX 7900 GRE 16GB. Will I have any issues with memory on the GPU if I only have 16GB of system memory. I don't think my current ram is still in production at 3600Mhz the same design is now 3000Mhz. So I think If I were to need an upgrade to 32GB I would have to replace my current ram with a 4x8 or 2x16 kit Just to keep the case looking nice. If you don't think the ram is needed than I'm happy with that. As I think I will be upgrading the motherboard and CPU at some point next year.

Will I lose any features on the new GPU with Windows 10 Pro. I'm willing to upgrade if needed.

I've picked the 7900 GRE because of the AMD games bundle. Space marine II and the unknown 9 should be fun.

Is there a current best software for removing Nvidia drivers and tools?

Many thanks.

 

[TheLostSwede]

No, why would your system RAM have issues because your GPU has the same amount of memory?
16 GB of RAM should still be plenty for most things.

I don't see why you'd have any issues using Windows 10 and that GPU.

Your biggest bottleneck is likely to be your CPU now.

 

[Harlow]

Is there a current best software for removing Nvidia drivers and tools?

https://www.guru3d.com/download/display-driver-uninstaller-download/

 

[Iceni]

No, why would your system RAM have issues because your GPU has the same amount of memory?

It was a thing at one point, Perhaps with AGP or Early PCIe. But you had to have system memory greater than your Vram to be able to use all of your Vram. I seem to think it was AGP aperture or something like that, Anyway I've never been in a situation where my Vram is equal to or greater than my system ram. So I needed to ask.

 

[Bill_Bright]

It was a thing at one point

Ummm, sorry but no it wasn't. You must be confusing it with something else.

As far as your graphics card having issues, it does not matter if your system has less, the same, or more system RAM than the card. They (the motherboard and the graphics card) are essentially separate systems where one hands-off tasks to the other.

Perhaps with AGP or Early PCIe.

Not sure what you mean by "Early" PCIe. Perhaps you meant just PCI - a totally different interface that came before AGP. Either way, it was not "a thing" with them either.

 

[Iceni]

Ummm, sorry but no it wasn't. You must be confusing it with something else.

I've had to do some digging! thinking I'm gaslighting myself lol.

It's shared GPU memory I'm thinking of. It's a pool of system memory that is allocated as a system buffer against Vram saturation. It's probably obsolete now since you guys have forgotten it's even a thing. It used to allocate 50% of ram to sharing for the GPU.

The old issue if I recall correctly was if you were system ram limited and GPU ram heavy the system would absorb 50% of your already small system ram pool and cause a system bottleneck.

What Is Shared GPU Memory?

Confused about Shared GPU Memory? We break it down! Learn if it boosts graphics performance or bottlenecks your system. Discover when dedicated VRAM is better.

www.electronicshub.org

 

[eidairaman1]

As far as I know only IGPs use main system memory as its framebuffer, today.

Explaination of AGP Aperture.

TechPowerUp

www.techpowerup.com

Pcie era is not affected by this.

So your main ram is not affected by the gpu.

Now Ryzen overall does perform better with faster ram but 16GB is not a major limiting factor.

So Get the Card

 

[Lost_Troll]

The old issue if I recall correctly was if you were system ram limited and GPU ram heavy the system would absorb 50% of your already small system ram pool and cause a system bottleneck.

You hit the nail on the head with "Old Issue", so do not even worry about it. Now what may be an issue with the GRE, is your CPU, which I would look at upgrading next to a 5700x3d since you will now be CPU bound. As for RAM, if you plan on playing Hogwarts or one of the other RAM hog games, then it might be wise to get 32Gb or DDR4 3200, but only if you start to have issues with stutters while gaming.

You might also look into moving from 1080p gamming to 1440p/1440 wide, since the GRE will handle it.

 

[Bill_Bright]

It's shared GPU memory I'm thinking of. It's a pool of system memory that is allocated as a system buffer against Vram saturation. It's probably obsolete now since you guys have forgotten it's even a thing. It used to allocate 50% of ram to sharing for the GPU.

Those of us who were there have not forgotten anything - it seems you have failed to remember things correctly - even still.

That is NOT what shared memory is, or was. "Shared" memory, in this scenario is a misnomer for totally "reallocated" (AKA: stolen) system memory.

In older systems with integrated graphics solutions, there was no dedicated VRAM so a chunk of system RAM was stolen... err... "shared" and reallocated to the integrated graphics processor for graphics processing tasks.

In most newer systems with integrated graphics solutions, there often is dedicated VRAM mounted on the motherboard too. And in some cases, if that dedicated VRAM was totally utilized, some system RAM might be shared, if higher priority CPU processes didn't need it.

Did you notice the common factor in both those scenarios? They both used integrated graphics solutions.

Did you read the "Shared GPU Memory - FAQs" in your own link and note where is says (my bold underline added),

The need for shared GPU memories occurs only without dedicated memory. Devices such as laptops or low-config desktops with no dedicated video memory require shared GPU memory to provide graphic memory processing support. The shared memory is generally used only in integrated systems where the GPUs are directly connected to the motherboard or CPU.

Graphics cards have (and always have had) their own VRAM mounted on the card - dedicated for graphics processing. In old and new systems, when you install a graphics card, any stolen... err... shared system RAM is freed up and made available to the CPU again.

This was critical way back in the day when most systems used 32-bit Windows and came with just 4GB of RAM, and often less . Adding even the most budget, entry-level graphics card would free up the stolen/shared memory, in effect, giving the computer a performance boost - and typically a better GPU too as early integrated graphics were not known for performance.

 

[eidairaman1]

Also 50% is a stretch

 

[BlaezaLite]

That 7900 GRE will go well with a 3600, but better with a 5700X3D that are cheaper now...

 

[ShrimpBrime]

That 7900 GRE will go well with a 3600, but better with a 5700X3D that are cheaper now...

I only fear for the Coolermaster PSU.

 

[BlaezaLite]

I only fear for the Coolermaster PSU.

Is it THAT bad?

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Is it THAT bad?

I don't think it would be THAT bad. I mean it's got the wattage for it. Should be ok???

 

[Frick]

Yeah speaking of that PSU, which model is it specifically? I don't think CM has truly awful 750W models...

 

[Iceni]

PSU isn't really a problem, If it's not up to the challenge then I'll just order a new one. The one that's in was done with the Ryzen upgrade. so it'll be the same age as the CPU, so a 2019ish vintage.

This review looks about right for it.

Cooler Master MASTERWATT 750 Review - PC TeK REVIEWS

Rakesh Sharma with Cooler Master MASTERWATT 750 Review.

www.pctekreviews.com

As for the Memory thing, not a clue... I must of picked up on it really early in my computing days, and it's just stuck with me, and I've always built with at least double system to V-ram. It may even be something I've picked up off someone in person and misinterpreted! It doesn't matter anyway as no damage is done.

As for the 5700X3D It looks nice on paper. I'd be dropping it into a 5 year old motherboard with DDR4 memory. So I'd have to sit and do the math on the upgrade and it's viability. It may be that I sack AM4 if I think AM5 still has legs. Or I may push the AM4 if I think the AM5 cycle will expire sooner than I expect. Either way I don't think I need to be looking into that for the moment. I can come back in a few months and upset you guys again with another round of odd questions

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Yeah, still on the fence about PSU.

Take chance get 5700X3D and leave PSU alone, gaming build complete.

 

[Iceni]

Cards here and installed. Been playing space marine II most of the evening. No issues at all.

Thanks all.

 

[Vincero]

@OP: The amount of system RAM shouldn't matter with regards to the GPU VRAM.
That said, I would probably say 16GB is gonna be tight for running some games and apps at the same time without any issues.

I've had to do some digging! thinking I'm gaslighting myself lol.

It's shared GPU memory I'm thinking of. It's a pool of system memory that is allocated as a system buffer against Vram saturation. It's probably obsolete now since you guys have forgotten it's even a thing. It used to allocate 50% of ram to sharing for the GPU.

The old issue if I recall correctly was if you were system ram limited and GPU ram heavy the system would absorb 50% of your already small system ram pool and cause a system bottleneck.

Shared system memory for GPU usage is definitely still a thing, and the drivers / OS should manage it accordingly. In theory shared GPU RAM (pooled from system RAM) would loose out and the app should quit due to VRAM limits before having a lack of system RAM... in theory. IGPs can be set by the BIOS to permanently occupy RAM which will not appear as 'Shared' GPU memory - anything they use outside of that via the shared/pooled memory would count against the shared memory usage.

E.g. a GTX 1080 helping itself to potentially use 16 out of 32GB system RAM:

On the other hand...
There is one thing that you may be thinking of and that was the memory hole at around 3.3GB of RAM which couldn't be allocated if the GPU had 'mapped'/occupied that memory area - actually to blame GPUs isn't fair as it was mapped for use by any/all PCI resources - kind of similar to the 640KB-1MB upper memory area that (usually) couldn't be accessed as it was utilised for memory resources for I/O and BIOS shadowing into RAM for speed boosts back in the DOS days.
This is a throwback to 32-bit and why some/many systems with 4GB would only see somewhere between 3.3GB-4GB of available RAM - more modern 64-bit systems correctly configured remap this so you don't have 700MB+ of your RAM somehow missing (listed as 'Hardware Reserved' in more modern Windows OS task manager).
That said, if you have some PCI/PCIe/AGP devices installed that utilise that PCI reserved resource pool, the 'Hardware Reserved' amount will increase, e.g.

Which I've seen as little as 1MB or as much as 700+MB.

To confuse things even more, AMD/Intel IGP settings in the BIOS might let you adjust the allocation of the fixed amount of RAM for the IGP to always have available - this can vary depending on each IGP and vendor BIOS configuration. Adjusting this amount sometimes impacts the 'Hardware Reserved' numbers shown - this depends a bit on the BIOS/drivers and how they handle things. The other setting with Intel is sometimes called DVMT which adjusts how much of the system RAM it is allowed to access as 'Shared GPU' memory.

 

[Macro Device]

Yeah, still on the fence about PSU.

No need to be. This PSU is more than fine for this config, OP only got a GPU for a power hog and it's only about 250 W at full swing. Wattage spikes in 7900 GRE aren't that bad thanks to low GPU frequency and RDNA3 being better than RDNA2 in general and at 1080p, it's easily capped to 150...170 W without any performance loss via undervolting.

@Iceni, you don't need to touch anything, unless you really feel disturbed by the way it actually works. I'd recommend having upgraded to a Ryzen 7700 / i9-12900 / equivalent system a year or two later when it becomes dirt cheap to do so. With 32 GB of reasonably fast RAM onboard, too. Upgrading your PSU won't hurt but it's not really that urgent.

 

[[crs]]

Ive used a masterwatt for a few years previously and never had an issue, when I upgraded to the 6800XT it got pretty hot (may have been something to do with the 110+ degree c hotspot, but it survived and I passed it onto someone else and it's still working to this day. They are most certainly not too bad at all. If you get a chance to get a cheap X3D CPU go for it and enjoy playing games.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

No need to be. This PSU is more than fine for this config, OP only got a GPU for a power hog and it's only about 250 W at full swing. Wattage spikes in 7900 GRE aren't that bad thanks to low GPU frequency and RDNA3 being better than RDNA2 in general and at 1080p, it's easily capped to 150...170 W without any performance loss via undervolting.

@Iceni, you don't need to touch anything, unless you really feel disturbed by the way it actually works. I'd recommend having upgraded to a Ryzen 7700 / i9-12900 / equivalent system a year or two later when it becomes dirt cheap to do so. With 32 GB of reasonably fast RAM onboard, too. Upgrading your PSU won't hurt but it's not really that urgent.

I know, I get it.

The first comment to that review that OP himself linked states the PSU didn't last long.... I mean take that for what it's worth, it's not my comment.

I personally wouldn't use it for my particular system though.

 

[eidairaman1]

Cards here and installed. Been playing space marine II most of the evening. No issues at all.

Thanks all.

Have fun with your new card, your issue has been resolved

 

[kapone32]

@OP: The amount of system RAM shouldn't matter with regards to the GPU VRAM.
That said, I would probably say 16GB is gonna be tight for running some games and apps at the same time without any issues.


Shared system memory for GPU usage is definitely still a thing, and the drivers / OS should manage it accordingly. In theory shared GPU RAM (pooled from system RAM) would loose out and the app should quit due to VRAM limits before having a lack of system RAM... in theory. IGPs can be set by the BIOS to permanently occupy RAM which will not appear as 'Shared' GPU memory - anything they use outside of that via the shared/pooled memory would count against the shared memory usage.

E.g. a GTX 1080 helping itself to potentially use 16 out of 32GB system RAM:
View attachment 366705

On the other hand...
There is one thing that you may be thinking of and that was the memory hole at around 3.3GB of RAM which couldn't be allocated if the GPU had 'mapped'/occupied that memory area - actually to blame GPUs isn't fair as it was mapped for use by any/all PCI resources - kind of similar to the 640KB-1MB upper memory area that (usually) couldn't be accessed as it was utilised for memory resources for I/O and BIOS shadowing into RAM for speed boosts back in the DOS days.
This is a throwback to 32-bit and why some/many systems with 4GB would only see somewhere between 3.3GB-4GB of available RAM - more modern 64-bit systems correctly configured remap this so you don't have 700MB+ of your RAM somehow missing (listed as 'Hardware Reserved' in more modern Windows OS task manager).
That said, if you have some PCI/PCIe/AGP devices installed that utilise that PCI reserved resource pool, the 'Hardware Reserved' amount will increase, e.g.
View attachment 366706
Which I've seen as little as 1MB or as much as 700+MB.

To confuse things even more, AMD/Intel IGP settings in the BIOS might let you adjust the allocation of the fixed amount of RAM for the IGP to always have available - this can vary depending on each IGP and vendor BIOS configuration. Adjusting this amount sometimes impacts the 'Hardware Reserved' numbers shown - this depends a bit on the BIOS/drivers and how they handle things. The other setting with Intel is sometimes called DVMT which adjusts how much of the system RAM it is allowed to access as 'Shared GPU' memory.

On modern AMD chips like the 5600G you can allocate up to 16GB of system Memory for IGPU frame buffer. I wonder how Smart Access Memory comes into this conversation? Does the CPU always have access to the GPU RAM or is it just that when you start a Game the entire RAM buffer is dedicated to the Game?

 

[Vincero]

On modern AMD chips like the 5600G you can allocate up to 16GB of system Memory for IGPU frame buffer. I wonder how Smart Access Memory comes into this conversation? Does the CPU always have access to the GPU RAM or is it just that when you start a Game the entire RAM buffer is dedicated to the Game?

On the 2 AMD Zen3 APUs I've ever used, the IGP allocation subtracted directly from the RAM available. I.e. if you had 32GB RAM and set the allocation to 16GB, then the system would only have 16GB available for normal RAM use, while the IGP would see 16GB fixed allocation for VRAM + access to a Shared RAM pool. In theory the IGP could access more than the 16GB.

Smart Access Memory is just PCIe ReBAR so doesn't change RAM allocations (although it might alter the amount of 'Hardware Reserved' RAM reservation).