Windows 11 General Discussion

[windwhirl]

while we have bad memories of crossfire and SLI compatibility, Directx12 was a huge chance for it to make a come back, I am surprised it didn't really, maybe Directx13 or 14 when M$ and Nvidia collaborate to figure out how to get people to buy more gpu's? lol market is already beginning to stagnate with this generation release

Like maybe 2% of the market has two GPUs. Statistically irrelevant, specially since GPUs are getting more expensive.

 

[Space Lynx]

Like maybe 2% of the market has two GPUs. Statistically irrelevant, specially since GPUs are getting more expensive.

I'm not saying it's smart right now, I am saying in the future when gpu sales stagnate more, it would make sense for them to try to optimize/bring back crossfire/SLI, I do think with future OS and Directx iterations, it will be easier to implement, possibly even something like DLSS4 Frame Gen will have it built in to use as many gpu's as you want, who knows what the future holds

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

I don't know enough about DirectX to know it it would be possible, but if it was a native feature to DX13 (or whatever) it would be kinda cool. It would help overcome the limitations of modern high-end gpus with how hard it is to scale them up.

 

[Klemc]

I'm not saying it's smart right now, I am saying in the future when gpu stales stagnate more, it would make sense for them to try to optimize/bring back crossfire/SLI, I do think with future OS and Directx iterations, it will be easier to implement, possibly even something like DLSS4 Frame Gen will have it built in to use as many gpu's as you want, who knows what the future holds

In the nearest future to come, it's ecology that will be important, powerconsuption, i don't think this will let NV AMD sell double powered PCs to the entire world, since they already just made adjustements in efficiency (7800x3d, 4000) to their last hardware, not tsure they would have done it if there had not been ecology talkings all over the world informations, and that's just the beginning.

The hardware is 1% the problem, it's software that is dumb at every level, driver, games, OS, and others if any (even Steam Deck OS is dumb btw).

 

[Onasi]

@Count von Schwalbe
Explicit mGPU is already a “native feature” of DX12. You cannot make SLI/CF-like mGPU a feature of API since it’s inherently vendor-specific. Well, I guess you theoretically can, but that would require somehow forcing NV, AMD and now Intel to converge in certain architectural choices and share driver code. I don’t think I need to explain why this is not feasible. I reiterate: when you had 2 cards in SLI the whole heavy lifting was in the driver, not the API.

@Space Lynx
The only sane way forward is chiplets. It essentially is the “several GPUs” solution without most of the downsides. mGPU for gaming is dead though, even if we disregard development difficulties there are just certain issues that have proven to be unsolvable, like shit frame pacing.

@theFOoL
You mean DirectX redistributables? Because since DX11.3/12 the API is fully ingrained into the OS and updates with it. The old model was flawed, I can still remember on XP in year of our Lord 2003-04 hunting down some SPECIFIC redist of 9.0c for some game because the one that was already installed didn’t have, like, a single .dll. I think it was for Underground 2? Was a long time. It was a dogshit model. And completely obsolete in our time of online updates.

 

[95Viper]

Let's stay on topic, please.
Topic is "Windows 11 General Discussion".

 

[lexluthermiester]

As this is relevant to Windows 11, I'm bring this subject over to this thread;

Interesting. Recall is now apparently a dependency of Windows' File Manager, as of update 24h2.

I am currently installing to test this. Will chime in with everyone to verify. I have no reason to doubt Chris, but just hadn't seen it yet.

EDIT:
On fresh install with an ISO freshly downloaded from microsoft, I'm not finding ReCall at all. No settings like those shown in the video, no services and nothing in the Task Manager or Task Scheduler.

CoPilot was there, but easily removed. Chris did mention that it was on his "inside" build. Maybe insiders builds have it? But ATM, it's not been pushed out to end users.
Additionally, when running the DISM command listed in the video( Dism /online /Disable-Feature /FeatureName:"Recall" ), it did state that the feature was removed successfully.

This would imply that Recall is present on the system, but not enabled by default, which is in line with what microsoft promised to do.

I will keep a watchful eye on this one and follow up with new developments.

 

[Klemc]

As this is relevant to Windows 11, I'm bring this subject over to this thread;


I am currently installing to test this. Will chime in with everyone to verify. I have no reason to doubt Chris, but just hadn't seen it yet.

EDIT:
On fresh install with an ISO freshly downloaded from microsoft, I'm not finding ReCall at all. No settings like those shown in the video, no services and nothing in the Task Manager or Task Scheduler.

CoPilot was there, but easily removed. Chris did mention that it was on his "inside" build. Maybe insiders builds have it? But ATM, it's not been pushed out to end users.
Additionally, when running the DISM command listed in the video( Dism /online /Disable-Feature /FeatureName:"Recall" ), it did state that the feature was removed successfully.

This would imply that Recall is present on the system, but not enabled by default, which is in line with what microsoft promised to do.

I will keep a watchful eye on this one and follow up with new developments.

Do your CPU is/has an NPU ?:

What are Recall requirements?​

If you want to enable Recall, the computer must be running Windows 11 24H2 (or a higher release) and meet the hardware requirements to be a Copilot Plus PC, which includes:

• CPU: Snapdragon X or equivalent processor.
• NPU: Neural Processing Unit with 40 TOPS (Tera Operations per Second).
• ..

 

[InVasMani]

256GB minimum requirement.

 

[Klemc]

256GB minimum requirement.

A dedicated SSD plugged on a GPU could do the trick

 

[Onasi]

@lexluthermiester
Can confirm, if Recall is present (and it seems it is) it’s fully inert by default on non-supporting hardware and easily removed/disabled via PS. No services or processes were running and nothing in Task Scheduler or Events to imply it working. Question is how it will behave when/if MS decides to extend the support to more configs.
I am annoyed that it isn’t listed under System Components in Settings, though. Doesn’t matter if inert or not - it should be. Then again, seems like it’s less of a component/app and more of a layer on top of the explorer.

 

[masterdeejay]

Legacy upgrade/install still works with tricks.
24h2 upgrade from 21h2, rufus 4.5 created usb boot pendrive + https://www.elevenforum.com/t/24h2-...or-rufus-v4-5-created-24h2-install-usb.29103/
Tested
Spec:
Intel Xeon 1220v2 (ivy bridge)
1x8Gb Hiksemi ddr3 1600
256gb intenso ssd
GT610 (no driver installed)
no TPM, no secure boot, no UEFI bios, no GPT, not supported cpu...


So we still can use older systems for the latest 24h2 build.
I think the minimum is a core2/lga775 64bit cpu. (s478 64bit pentium is not working without kernel mods). Recommended min ram 4gb, and 64gb SSD. WDDM i think 1.0 is minimum for video cards. (Geforce Fx series, Ati X1xxx series with vista drivers)

 

[Onasi]

@masterdeejay
No, your CPU is very much supported in terms of instructions. Ivy has SSE 4.2. It’s not supported in terms of MS arbitrary support list, sure, but the kernel is bootable. No Core 2 supports SSE 4.2 and, as such, won’t run 24H2

 

[SL2]

@lexluthermiester
Can confirm, if Recall is present (and it seems it is) it’s fully inert by default on non-supporting hardware and easily removed/disabled via PS. No services or processes were running and nothing in Task Scheduler or Events to imply it working. Question is how it will behave when/if MS decides to extend the support to more configs.
I am annoyed that it isn’t listed under System Components in Settings, though. Doesn’t matter if inert or not - it should be. Then again, seems like it’s less of a component/app and more of a layer on top of the explorer.

So does removing it affect Explorer, like the video said? I'm not really up to date here, and never even installed W11..

Edit: Talking about functionality like tabs.

 

[Octopuss]

I'll be giving W11 a shot in a VM soon. I have been actively ignoring it until now, but 24H2 seems like a good point to see what's the OS like. It's been out what, two years? Well, whatever. I'll need to move on at some point anyway, so I better start testing.

When people say Windows 11 needs to be debloated, what do they actually mean? Physically deleting some shit from the installation? Or just configuring some packages or whatever to disabled state? I used to do all kinds of weird stuff with Windows 7, but in the end figured it was nonsense, the results were questionable at best, but more likely breaking stuff instead, and aside from the configuration that's part of the unattended setup I have (which I have to check from top to bottom since there seem to be quite a few changes since Windows 10) I only run O&O's Shutup10 these days and that's it.

 

[Klemc]

I'll be giving W11 a shot in a VM soon. I have been actively ignoring it until now, but 24H2 seems like a good point to see what's the OS like. It's been out what, two years? Well, whatever. I'll need to move on at some point anyway, so I better start testing.

When people say Windows 11 needs to be debloated, what do they actually mean? Physically deleting some shit from the installation? Or just configuring some packages or whatever to disabled state? I used to do all kinds of weird stuff with Windows 7, but in the end figured it was nonsense, the results were questionable at best, but more likely breaking stuff instead, and aside from the configuration that's part of the unattended setup I have (which I have to check from top to bottom since there seem to be quite a few changes since Windows 10) I only run O&O's Shutup10 these days and that's it.

Use ADK to build an ISO (unattended has options too to customize), here the list of all i removed, let's say all bc i need nothing, there is nothing of a bloat when install finishes:

Windows 11 General Discussion

@lexluthermiester Mm, I think you are probably misremembering. Intel IOT offerings are Atom based mostly and those had support since Silvermont which was… 2013-ish, if memory serves? Besides, we discussed this before and I have tested it already back at work - the LTSC version behaves as...

www.techpowerup.com

Beware thee some fr-FR specific lines, i'm FRench.

You can skip the Intel Realtek Qualcom lines if you don't care, it looks to be drivers ready.

 

[Onasi]

@SL2
I don’t think it’s a “removal” and more of a disabling of the function. The actual software layer is probably still in the system. But no, I haven’t noticed anything being affected after the PS command execution.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Do your CPU is/has an NPU ?:

What are Recall requirements?​

If you want to enable Recall, the computer must be running Windows 11 24H2 (or a higher release) and meet the hardware requirements to be a Copilot Plus PC, which includes:

• CPU: Snapdragon X or equivalent processor.
• NPU: Neural Processing Unit with 40 TOPS (Tera Operations per Second).
• ..

I was not aware of these requirements. Link?

256GB minimum requirement.

Again, link?

Legacy upgrade/install still works with tricks.
24h2 upgrade from 21h2, rufus 4.5 created usb boot pendrive + https://www.elevenforum.com/t/24h2-...or-rufus-v4-5-created-24h2-install-usb.29103/
Tested
Spec:
Intel Xeon 1220v2 (ivy bridge)
1x8Gb Hiksemi ddr3 1600
256gb intenso ssd
GT610 (no driver installed)
no TPM, no secure boot, no UEFI bios, no GPT, not supported cpu...
View attachment 366924

So we still can use older systems for the latest 24h2 build.
I think the minimum is a core2/lga775 64bit cpu. (s478 64bit pentium is not working without kernel mods). Recommended min ram 4gb, and 64gb SSD. WDDM i think 1.0 is minimum for video cards. (Geforce Fx series, Ati X1xxx series with vista drivers)

This was known, but thanks for the heads up anyway!

So does removing it affect Explorer, like the video said? I'm not really up to date here, and never even installed W11..

Edit: Talking about functionality like tabs.

Does nothing. Windows Explorer, including tabs, continues to work perfectly ATM.

I'll be giving W11 a shot in a VM soon.

Good idea. Also, a spare system will work too.

When people say Windows 11 needs to be debloated, what do they actually mean?

I'm currently using the following for 23H2 and previous. Seems to need a bit of refinement for 24H2 but still mostly works.
Schneegans autounattend.xml files for Windows 10/11

 

[windwhirl]

I was not aware of these requirements. Link?

Retrace your steps with Recall - Microsoft Support

support.microsoft.com

System requirements for Recall ​

Your PC needs the following minimum system requirements for Recall:

• A Copilot+ PC
• 16 GB RAM
• 8 logical processors
• 256 GB storage capacity
  
  • To enable Recall, you’ll need at least 50 GB of storage space free
  • Saving screenshots automatically pauses once the device has less than 25 GB of storage space

There seems to be a limit of 150 GB for recall regardless of how huge your capacity is:

Recall Overview

Learn how to use the AI-assisted Recall feature with the User Activity API in Windows.

learn.microsoft.com

Prerequisites​

To utilize Recall in a Windows app, the following requirements must be met:

• Currently available only on the new Copilot+ PC.
• User Activity is supported in Windows SDK version 10.0.17134.0 (Windows 10, version 1803, Build 17134) or later.

Copilot+ PCs Developer Guide

Developer guide for Windows Copilot+ PCs.

learn.microsoft.com

Copilot+ PCs are a new class of Windows 11 hardware powered by a high-performance Neural Processing Unit (NPU) — a specialized computer chip for AI-intensive processes like real-time translations and image generation—that can perform more than 40 trillion operations per second (TOPS)

Prerequisites​

This guidance is specific to Copilot+ PCs.
Many of the new Windows AI features require an NPU with the ability to run 40+ TOPS, including but not limited to:

• Arm-based Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite devices
• Intel Lunar Lake devices -- Coming soon
• AMD STRIX (Ryzen AI 9) devices -- Coming soon

 

[Klemc]

Can be foced on unsupported HW, lol lol lol:

vhttps://pureinfotech.com/force-install-recall-ai-unsupported-hardware-windows-11/

 

[Shou Miko]

Can be foced on unsupported HW, lol lol lol:

https://pureinfotech.com/force-install-recall-ai-unsupported-hardware-windows-11/

Link fix

I am not keen on this, but I guess for a vm test environment it's fine, not gonna use it doe.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Retrace your steps with Recall - Microsoft Support

support.microsoft.com

There seems to be a limit of 150 GB for recall regardless of how huge your capacity is:
View attachment 367071

Recall Overview

Learn how to use the AI-assisted Recall feature with the User Activity API in Windows.

learn.microsoft.com

Copilot+ PCs Developer Guide

Developer guide for Windows Copilot+ PCs.

learn.microsoft.com

I'm not seeing anything in those pages about Snapdragon/ARM CPU requirements.

However, if we visit the page that helps users choose a CoPilot+ PC, we see the following in the left side selection panel.

Both AMD and Intel CPU selections can be made and those are decidedly X86-64 CPUs, not ARM. So it would seem that those quoted specs from earlier are either not complete, not accurate or out of date(perhaps all three?). Typical microsoft..

Regardless, Recall was a platform-wide release. While not enabled and running, the code is present. It's mere presence is deeply disturbing.
One has to wonder if microsoft is planning for the $h!tstorm of legal and PR troubles is going to get into with this.

EDIT: BTW, for those that may visit the above site and wonder why It looks like a dark mode in my screenshots, I use the DarkReader extension for Firefox.

 

[Klemc]

Recall is a preview of what Win13 explorer will be !.?

OKay, Recall take snapshots of screens while the user uses his computer, what i think is that even Nehanderthal could have think about such an basic idea, total waste of compute and data storage, that could be verry differently done, take screenshots, hell that's lazy... at least now there is GPU with SSD inside it's a good merge.

// 2024-10-08 :\\

The Recall feature is exclusive to devices certified as Copilot+ PCs, since it requires a neural processing unit (NPU) with a performance of at least 40 TOPS. The latter is required for local processing of artificial intelligence tasks. The Copilot+ PC label is assigned to laptops built on Snapdragon X, AMD Ryzen AI 300, and Intel Core Ultra 200v series processors.

Microsoft will start Recall testing in November on Copilot+ devices with AMD and Intel

Microsoft has revealed the upcoming open beta testing of the Recall feature for Windows 11. In October of this year, owners of Copilot+ PC devices with

winaero.com

 

[windwhirl]

out of date(perhaps all three?)

Probably out of date, pretty sure AMD STRIX already launched (laptops only tho). Plus Microsoft's documentation is a bit disorganized.

Recall is a preview of what Win13 explorer will be !.?

Windows 13 is probably on a product manager's roadmap, at most. I don't think they're even that deep in Windows 12's planning.

 

[Klemc]

Probably out of date, pretty sure AMD STRIX already launched (laptops only tho). Plus Microsoft's documentation is a bit disorganized.

View attachment 367081


Windows 13 is probably on a product manager's roadmap, at most. I don't think they're even that deep in Windows 12's planning.

I meant Win12