ProArt X670E + Ryzen 9950X + 128GB RAM issue

[joaocc]

Hey everyone, first time here, and I admit that although I work with software everyday I know very little about hardware.

I finally got the chance to upgrade to a decent machine with the latest tech (see specs below).
I bought it on a trust able online store, and paid them to build and test.

SPECS:
Asus ProArt X670E Creator WiFi
AMD Ryzen 9 9950X 16-Core (4.3GHz-5.75Hz)
Asus GeForce® RTX 4070 Dual OC 12GB GDDR6X DLSS3
G.Skill Kit 64GB (2 x 32GB) DDR5 6000MHz Trident Z5 Neo EXPO (x2 128gb total)
Water Cooler CPU AIO Arctic Liquid Freezer II ARGB - 420mm
Modular Seasonic Focus GX-1000W 80+ Gold ATX 3.0
SSD Crucial T500 HS 1TB Gen4 M.2 NVMe 2280

They sent me the machine, although I was told it couldn't run the 128GB of ram faster than 4800.

The build worked for like 3 weeks, one day in the morning gave me the yellow LED DRAM issue.
With the help of a friend, we did reset the bios, removed and tested all the sticks of ram, nothing worked.

Sent the parts back to the store via mail (I live on an island), and the only message I got from them was "we're sending you new ram, cpu and board". I didn't even got the chance to ask them to test, because they already sent me the mail tracking number.

Now, parts arrived yesterday, my friend put it together, turned it on and AGAIN the yellow LED.

We did a few tests with the ram, and placing only two of them in the 2nd and 4th slots it did the training and booted.

Whenever we try to place the 4 sticks of ram it refuses to boot. (stuck at yellow light)
The lower velocity we tried was 4000. Only works with 2 on that specific position.

After booting to windows, the temperatures of the cpu go up to 95 degrees in heavy tasks, which I was told is not good (I can hear the fans going wild).

I am honestly thinking about asking to replace all hardware by other components, this just makes me feel stressed not being able to work or have a peace of mind.

Tomorrow I am having another friend do some other tests, just in case. Can you recommend some tests we should run? I am very grateful for your suggestions in advance.

Sorry for the long text and thank you!

 

[gurusmi]

If you would have read the qvl before sourcing you would have seen that the ram is supported only with 2 Modules. The Ram Bars need too much power on 4 bars. with 4 modules only 1,25v or so is supported. Your RAM needs 1.4v.

 

[purecain]

I use 4 dimm slots on x670, im not near my pc for a few days, If I remember i'll take a look for you. See what voltage im using although mine is the crosshair hero.

 

[damric]

You paid someone to build it, so it's their job to get it working. If they can't then send it back for a refund, then the people here will help you build a proper rig. They most likely gave you the wrong RAM/motherboard combo for 128GB. It's tricky to get that much running at once but it can be done.

 

[Sarajiel]

They sent me the machine, although I was told it couldn't run the 128GB of ram faster than 4800.

AMD only guarantees DDR5-3600 when using four memory sticks, regardless of the number of ranks, for your CPU (link). Anything beyond that depends on the silicon quality of the specific memory controller of your CPU, the quality of the memory topology of your motherboard and the memory ICs used on your sticks.
Similar limitations apply for all LGA-1700 Intel CPUs, just in case you are thinking about using one of these. I'm not sure about the new Arrow Lake CPUs yet, but expect them to be slower as well to a certain degree.

From my personal experience with AM5, you need a motherboard from either Gigabyte or ASRock with an 8-layer PCB to run anything faster than DDR5-4800 reliably out of the box. That assumes you have memory sticks with Hynix A-die (128GB) or Hynix M-die (192GB). However, that doesn't mean it will always run by just enabling EXPO or XMP.
Some combinations of CPUs, boards and memory sticks will almost always require manual tuning, and sometimes it won't work at all because your CPU lacks the silicon quality. For example, I have one 7950X that doesn't boot 4 modules, while the other 7950X does, both in the same board with the same memory modules.

Unless you definitely need more than 96GB, stick to a kit of two 48GB modules and run them at DDR5-6000 speed, unless you are willing to spend a lot of time tuning memory.

After booting to windows, the temperatures of the cpu go up to 95 degrees in heavy tasks, which I was told is not good (I can hear the fans going wild).

You were told wrong. AMD designed Ryzen 7000 and 9000 CPUs to boost to 95°C (link). If you don't like that for some reason, you can lower the maximum boost temperature in your BIOS, usually under the PBO section or AMD CBS section.

 

[joaocc]

Thank you for your input guys, tomorrow I will try again to run some tests and let you know. I can definitely go down for 2x48 if in the end doesn't work. Or send it back and ask for a refund if they can't make it work. I should have done more research and not trust everything they say. Thanks again.

 

[ir_cow]

The seller should have warned you about the speed limitation. Completely on them to send you a working computer. Unfortunately like everyone else has commented, there is a official number AMD has and it's 3600 MT/s. You can fiddle with the BIOS settings and manually set it to 4800 or 5200 MT/s. 4x dual-rank (which is what you have), will not go to 6000 MT/a no matter how hard you try.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Why not return it and buy Epyc workstation platform instead. Will run up to 1TB of memory installed at a frequency of 4800mhz.

A 9950X is a desktop flasgship gaming Cpu. It does best with 2x16GB or 2X32GB for high frequency performance numbers like 6000mhz.

Are you sure that you have purchased the correct hardware? Not even a GPU listed, so I assume you need a workstation, not a gaming PC.

 

[joaocc]

Why not return it and buy Epyc workstation platform instead. Will run up to 1TB of memory installed at a frequency of 4800mhz.

A 9950X is a desktop flasgship gaming Cpu. It does best with 2x16GB or 2X32GB for high frequency performance numbers like 6000mhz.

Are you sure that you have purchased the correct hardware? Not even a GPU listed, so I assume you need a workstation, not a gaming PC.

Added the gpu, forgot about it, it's a 4070 that I have bought before this build. An epyc workstation honestly would go over my budget, which was around 2500€. :/ It's not for gaming, but for computer graphics(rendering, 3D work ).

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Added the gpu, forgot about it, it's a 4070 that I have bought before this build. An epyc workstation honestly would go over my budget, which was around 2500€. :/ It's not for gaming, but for computer graphics(rendering, 3D work ).

Well, looking at the QVL, I don't see support for your memory configuration 128GB. https://www.asus.com/us/motherboard...l_memory?model2Name=ProArt-X670E-CREATOR-WIFI

4x48GB not supported 4x24GB Not supported. // 2x48 is supported. 4x16GB is supported, and it looks like only select kits.

So as you can see, this is a gaming build. RTX 4070, Top Flagship gaming CPU, Arguably a Flagship Gaming motherboard..... You're building a Gaming PC that doesn't support your needs unfortunately. I mean the GPU does probably ok. Could you get away with any of the above configurations instead?

 

[Redwoodz]

There is a way to make it work but it's going to be time consuming. Remember 4 sticks takes a long time on initial boot for training, like 10 minutes maybe.

 

[chrcoluk]

4800 is fine, 6000 is nice, but not essential.

Sadly this has been a thing for a while, 4 stick configuration leaves a lot to be desired compared to advertised speeds.

 

[Toothless]

Why not return it and buy Epyc workstation platform instead. Will run up to 1TB of memory installed at a frequency of 4800mhz.

A 9950X is a desktop flasgship gaming Cpu. It does best with 2x16GB or 2X32GB for high frequency performance numbers like 6000mhz.

Are you sure that you have purchased the correct hardware? Not even a GPU listed, so I assume you need a workstation, not a gaming PC.

It is not specifically a "gaming" CPU. AMD mainly calls the x3D chips this with the x950x chips for workstation or power users that need the cores.

 

[Caring1]

Ideally that CPU should be mated to a X870E Motherboard.
Was the Bios updated to the latest to allow for updates to qualifying Ram and settings?

 

[ShrimpBrime]

It is not specifically a "gaming" CPU. AMD mainly calls the x3D chips this with the x950x chips for workstation or power users that need the cores.

Yes, I suppose could have been as specific as the advertisments.... I understand what you're saying otherwise.

7000X3D "most powerful gaming cpu"
9000 "working hard or gaming, is a powerhouse."

But that wasnt/isn't my point exactly. It's about desktop geared for performance rather than redundancy of using 128GB of memory.

 

[ir_cow]

Ideally that CPU should be mated to a X870E Motherboard.
Was the Bios updated to the latest to allow for updates to qualifying Ram and settings?

Not going to make a difference for 4x DIMMs.

 

[Sarajiel]

Ideally that CPU should be mated to a X870E Motherboard.

Not going to make a difference for 4x DIMMs.

There are basically only two Asus boards that come with NitroPath DRAM Technology (back drilled VIAs and different contacts inside the slots): the ROG Crosshair X870E Hero and the ROG Strix X870E-E Gaming WiFi.
So far, we don't even know if that would increase the signal integrity with 4 DIMMs in practical terms. I've seen some XOC YouTuber testing the Hero with a 9950X and two memory sticks, and that was basically a shitshow. Can't link it, because he set his ~20 hours of testing private. Too much swearing and Asus bashing, I'd assume.
From what I've seen from Gigabyte and ASRock, there isn't any change in their memory topologies and trace layouts for X870(E) at all, and their 8-layer boards are probably better for use with 4 DIMMs than any old or new Asus 4 DIMM slots boards, except maybe the new NitroPath ones. No idea about MSI's new boards, but judging from the old B650 one I got, they are still struggling with posting 4 DIMMs and current AGESAs.

In OP's case, the X870E version of the ProArt wouldn't have changed a thing, because it still uses the same memory topology as the old one. They only would have paid more and lost 4x Gen5 lanes to the USB4 controller, which may or may not useful for the OP.

 

[joaocc]

Hey, sorry for the late reply. Been trying to fix this meanwhile.

Looks like I had to wait for quite some time (around 7min) for it to post. But with 128GB (4800 and 1.42v)it becomes too unstable, even just browsing the web. Ended up reducing it to 2 sticks (64GB) and now runs smoothly at 6000.

Will ask the store to replace my ram kit for a 2x48, specifically this one I got recommended:

TEAMGROUP T-Create Expert 96 GB (2 x 48 GB) DDR5-6800 CL36 Memory

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/tt3NnQ/teamgroup-t-create-expert-96-gb-2-x-48-gb-ddr5-6800-cl36-memory-ctced596g6800hc36ddc01

I can definitely work with 96, so as long as it works I'll be happy.

Thanks everyone for the input, really appreciate it.

 

[Redwoodz]

1.42v for 48000M/Ts sounds awfully high, too much voltage can make it unstable too. I would think something like 1.2v - 1.25v would be enough for 48000.

 

[ir_cow]

Ram voltage isn't the solution to this problem. If you were trying to run at 7600+, 1.45v is what you'll need. At most you can just leave it with the default EXPO profile.

The problem here is the CPU memory controller / SoC. It 1) cannot handle 4x 4800 with the auto voltage 2) will need to be adjusted manually 3) might not be able to run 4800 stable ever. That has it's own voltage in the BIOS.

IF you need that much ram and guarantee stable, run it at 3600 and don't enable XMP/EXPO.

 

[Sarajiel]

But with 128GB (4800 and 1.42v)it becomes too unstable

That's crazy high VDD for what is basically JEDEC baseline speed, which should work at 1.1V.

Sorry, that I didn't ask you earlier, but can you post a ZenTimings screenshot of your 128GB setup?

The problem here is the CPU memory controller / SoC. It 1) cannot handle 4x 4800 with the auto voltage 2) will need to be adjusted manually 3) might not be able to run 4800 stable ever. That has it's own voltage in the BIOS.

From my limited experience with quad-rank using Gigabyte (trivially easy) and MSI (major pain) boards, I'd say the secret to get 128GB running is getting the balance between VDDQ, VDDIO and VDDP right. Especially since VDDP has to be at least 100mV lower than the other ones. Of course, that assumes that your CPU can actually handle four dual-rank DIMMs with less than 1.3V Vsoc at all. I only have second hand knowledge for Asus boards with 4 DIMM slots, but I'd guess the OP has to run his board probably at least at 1.3V VDDIO/VDDQ, maybe more if that crazy VDD is actually needed.

Keep in mind that more voltage isn't necessarily better for DDR5, it's all about finding the sweet spot.

TEAMGROUP T-Create Expert 96 GB (2 x 48 GB) DDR5-6800 CL36 Memory

Avoid DDR5-6800 memory kits for AM5, unless you are willing to manually tune them. Stick to a decent 96GB kit at DDR5-6000 that comes with CL30 or CL32 EXPO/XMP. That's usually just plug and play. From my personal experience with that size, go for Kingston Fury Renegade kits. Corsair has also a few in that range, but I don't have hands-on experience with them.
If you want to buy a faster kit, make sure that it also includes a lower speed secondary EXPO/XMP profile for DDR5-6000. Patriot and Kingston kits usually include one of these for the next lower speed bins. G.Skill never does those, so avoid the fairly popular DDR5-6400 kits from them unless you enjoy memory tuning.
I think there is also a T-Create 96GB DDR5-6400, but I don't know if it includes a lower speed bin.

 

[DaBadger84]

If you're going for 2x48GB kit, I can highly recommend G.Skill - I just recently got a 2x48GB kit for my Stable Diffusion Flux work, which was just decimating the 2x16GB kit I had (ran out of RAM continuously and it made it take forever to do anything). My kit is a CL32 6400MHz 1.35v one, I'm currently running it at 6200MHz CL30 1.35v with 2200FCLK (which is better than 6400MHz CL32 at a lower FCLK setting) and it's been rock stable thus far rendering & gaming.

TeamGroup is a decent memory brand too, but the others are correct in saying buying a kit that's rated for higher than I would say 6400MHz, is basically paying for something you cannot use correctly, since the 9950X is going to cap out at 6400MHz in the best case in terms of what it can run for RAM speed/UCLK speed (the memory controller & RAM clocks are synced, 6400 is actually 3200, and getting an AMD memory controller that can run higher than 3200MHz is very rare, even with high SoC voltage to try to get it stable - I'm saying that from experience & watching AHOC/Buildzoid videos, who knows a helluva lot more about RAM overclocking than the majority of people on the planet).

Try to find something that's in the CL30 6000MHz to CL32 6400MHz range, preferably with 1.35v being the stock voltage so you have more room to fiddle. I know you're likely aiming for plug n play stability, and if that's the case, I'd recommend a 2x48GB CL30 6000MHz kit, as you should be able to plug in EXPO in the BIOS & it'll train & 'just work' on probably 95% of CPUs at this point on AM5.