Windows 11 24H2 yes or no?

[Bill_Bright]

some people are Dumb like that

True, some people are like that. It's dumb as dog poop.

Just because an individual lacks knowledge or awareness about a specific subject, or has been misinformed about the subject, that does not make them "dumb". A person who is dumb lacks intelligence or is stupid. That is, they are incapable of learning or understanding - perhaps due to a birth defect or brain injury. Therefore, calling people dumb simply because they are unware or have been ill-informed is derogatory and insensitive at best, crass and rude at worse.

Many computer enthusiasts seem to forget they were newbies once too. And they forget that the vast majority of users are not security experts, nor should they need to be.

It is NOT fear-mongering to warn people that unsupported operating systems may (and likely will) become threats to themselves and more importantly, to others. It is being wise to believe and heed that warning.

It IS fear-mongering to tell people their computers will suddenly stop working, or get infected if they don't upgrade before support ends.

I remind everyone again, these end-of-support dates don't suddenly come to pass. We've typically had years to prepare.

No, but there are people who think their "Windows start to crash and burn"(direct quote) if they don't upgrade. Total moose muffins.

Burn? Yes that is nonsense. But crash? That happens - a lot. But again, it is not suddenly the day after support ends. It takes months or longer and may be the result of collateral damage - for example, after upgrading a driver or firmware.

It is also very important to remember problems with end-of-support are not exclusive the OS. Many developers do the same thing to push users to new versions.

 

[Onasi]

@Ruru
Same thing here on B550 and 5900X. TPM On, Secure Boot On, everything is running as usual, but no 24H2 offered on this machine. So I’d say it’s just MS being veeeery careful in their rollout and not rushing things. To be clear - I got the previous big feature update, 22H2, only in… January or February 2023? Something like that. So it’s not an unusual thing. I’d say no use rushing things and just staying on 23H2 is absolutely fine for the time MS irons out the kinks. But, as noted above, you CAN force the issue if you want to. Not even necessarily through the ISO, you can use Group Policy to target 24H2 via WU and force it to be offered.

 

[Dr. Dro]

@Ruru
Same thing here on B550 and 5900X. TPM On, Secure Boot On, everything is running as usual, but no 24H2 offered on this machine. So I’d say it’s just MS being veeeery careful in their rollout and not rushing things. To be clear - I got the previous big feature update, 22H2, only in… January or February 2023? Something like that. So it’s not an unusual thing. I’d say no use rushing things and just staying on 23H2 is absolutely fine for the time MS irons out the kinks. But, as noted above, you CAN force the issue if you want to. Not even necessarily through the ISO, you can use Group Policy to target 24H2 via WU and force it to be offered.

That seems to be the case. They rolled it to GA a month ago on October 1 patch tuesday, and by then the minor version digits was already in the 2000s. 24H2 actually RTM'd (26100.1) on April 3. It's a full 6 month delay and continuous development on top of that build to ensure stability for public rollout.

 

[Onasi]

@Dr. Dro
Yup, and they already kernel updated everything and it’s dog to 24H2 in the meanwhile. Like XBox consoles. So they have a lot on their plate, they have apparently invested quite heavily in 24H2 and want it to go down smoothly. Not an issue at all, I prefer that to a rushed launch (*cough* OG 11 RTM *cough*).

 

[Dr. Dro]

@Dr. Dro
Yup, and they already kernel updated everything and it’s dog to 24H2 in the meanwhile. Like XBox consoles. So they have a lot on their plate, they have apparently invested quite heavily in 24H2 and want it to go down smoothly. Not an issue at all, I prefer that to a rushed launch (*cough* OG 11 RTM *cough*).

Yeah, i've been running 24H2 for a few months now, my computer's on 26100.2161, they are still doing a few touches here and there it seems. Like the new Wi-Fi control panel. In general I don't think there is much of a rush going from 23H2 to 24H2 right now, 24H2 imposes a few restrictions over 23H2 that might be quite undesirable for older PCs as well.

 

[Ruru]

@Ruru
Same thing here on B550 and 5900X. TPM On, Secure Boot On, everything is running as usual, but no 24H2 offered on this machine. So I’d say it’s just MS being veeeery careful in their rollout and not rushing things. To be clear - I got the previous big feature update, 22H2, only in… January or February 2023? Something like that. So it’s not an unusual thing. I’d say no use rushing things and just staying on 23H2 is absolutely fine for the time MS irons out the kinks. But, as noted above, you CAN force the issue if you want to. Not even necessarily through the ISO, you can use Group Policy to target 24H2 via WU and force it to be offered.

Alright, nice to know that I'm not the only one.

 

[tpa-pr]

I have upgraded on both of my work notebooks to 24H2. Funny thing about both: I had to run the PC Health Check tool to verify they were compatible first (even though they were already running 11) and then I was able to upgrade from the ISO.

For my VirtualBox VM I use at home on my Linux machine, I had to run the install with the "/server" switch to upgrade. The VM is the only machine I've encountered an issue on (and a very specific one at that): the minimize/maximize/close buttons don't display properly in Modern Apps:

Otherwise, nothing to really report, it was a straightforward upgrade.

EDIT: For the Googlers out there, the fix has been shared below by pexxie: disable VirtualBox 3D acceleration until an updated package is pushed out by Oracle

 

[windwhirl]

(*cough* OG 11 RTM *cough*).

I'm still mad they fixed the Ryzen cache stuff post launch when they got a report from me months before launch through Feedback hub.

Funny thing about both: I had to run the PC Health Check tool to verify they were compatible first (even though they were already running 11) and then I was able to upgrade from the ISO.

Microsoft is probably aware people are skipping the system requirements through Rufus or other ways, lol

 

[lexluthermiester]

That happens - a lot.

Not it doesn't. You're perpetuating the myth here. I'm running Windows 7 on one machine and it's allowed online to limited degree. It doesn't crash or implode. At all. Ever. I'm hardly alone. Granted it's not my daily driver and is physically disconnected when not being attended. But at the end of the day Windows 7 is still a safe OS, regardless of the nonsense fud some people spread. Where the challenges lay in are in hardware and software support which is waning.

they have apparently invested quite heavily in 24H2 and want it to go down smoothly.

Which it isn't, not by a long shot. Never is. It's not a terrible mess, but it's having issues that can't be ignored.

I prefer that to a rushed launch (*cough* OG 11 RTM *cough*).

What?!? The RTM launch of 11 was the second smoothest launch of any version of Windows, eclipsed only by Windows 7. Everything else was a mess to one degree or another.

 

[Onasi]

What?!? The RTM launch of 11 was the second smoothest launch of any version of Windows, eclipsed only by Windows 7. Everything else was a mess to one degree or another.

Lex, I love you, nothing but respect, but come on, even bugs like the aforementioned AMD cache aside, half the UI wasn’t finished in any way, shape or form. Start menu and Taskbar lacked many options to send shortcuts to Desktop, to drag and drop items to launch apps, the dreadful nested context menu, no ungrouping for Taskbar icons, the inconsistent as hell Dark Mode, half the Start being taken up by useless “recommendations”, Explorer being refreshed, but not the Options dialog for some reason, etc. I am sure that for people like us who used things like WinAero and Start menu replacements it was essentially just an improved 10, but the bone stock 11 was blatantly unfinished.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Lex, I love you, nothing but respect, but come on, even bugs like the aforementioned AMD cache aside, half the UI wasn’t finished in any way, shape or form.

Sure it was. Are you kidding? I was testing each and every version of the beta extensively. You seem to have missed that a few years ago. I started the following thread about it.

Windows 11 General Discussion

With the leak and/or release of the Alpha build, the announcements and release of the Insider builds of Windows 11 there has been a lot of discussions in other threads that seem to be getting very off topic for those threads. It seems like good idea for Windows 11 to have it's own general...

www.techpowerup.com

And yes it was fine.

Start menu and Taskbar lacked many options to send shortcuts to Desktop, to drag and drop items to launch apps, the dreadful nested context menu, no ungrouping for Taskbar icons, the inconsistent as hell Dark Mode, half the Start being taken up by useless “recommendations”, Explorer being refreshed, but not the Options dialog for some reason, etc

None of that is correct. But I'm not going to nitpick.

the bone stock 11 was blatantly unfinished.

It wasn't perfect, nothing microsoft does ever is, but to say it was unfinished is simply disingenuous. It was as near to a great launch as one can have asked for. As stated above, only the launch of Windows 7 was better and went more smoothly.

The problems with 11 were and still are the bloat and privacy violation crap, somewhat tediously excised then. It's very easy now. Debloated and roped in, Windows 11 is as good a version of Windows as anyone could ask for without going back to 7.

 

[Onasi]

None of that is correct.

You seem to have missed that a few years ago. I started the following thread about it.

You mean I missed your posts that predate my registration on TPU? You don’t say.
I was in the Dev Preview for 11 too. Was literally part of my work since I needed to evaluate whether upgrading our Pcs was worth it. I saw and used all the Beta builds too. The fucking consensus among all the other testers I spoke to was that the RTM was too early and raw to be released. You are, unironically, the first person I have seen in this Earth who is actually tech literate to say that 11 was not unfinished.
Weird hill to die on, but I guess we can agree to disagree on this.

 

[Bill_Bright]

That happens - a lot.

Not it doesn't. You're perpetuating the myth here. I'm running Windows 7 on one machine and it's allowed online to limited degree. It doesn't crash or implode.

So your anecdotal experience with one OS means it doesn't happen? Come on, Lex! As some wise person once said,

Please, let's not start that..

"A lot" does not mean it happens to "most" users. In fact, "a lot" is a very flexible quantifier I specifically chose to use - instead of "most". I have met "a lot" of people. Does that mean I have met "most" people? Or millions, or even 100s of 1000s? No. But I have met "a lot".

Is it a myth that some users of superseded operating systems have experienced system crashes? Nope. Does every user, or even most users of those systems eventually experience crashes. I don't know. I have never seen any study or statistics on the causes of system crashes with legacy systems. I doubt you have either.

But I do know the following is fact,

it is not suddenly the day after support ends. It takes months or longer and may be the result of collateral damage - for example, after upgrading a driver or firmware.

I guess I should have put greater emphasis on "collateral damage" and gone into more detail for individuals "who lack knowledge or awareness about a specific subject, or has been misinformed." My bad for assuming again.

To further explain my "collateral damage" comment, it is also common for users of legacy operating systems to be running those OSs on legacy - as in "aging" hardware. Would you deny aging hardware is prone to crashing? And it is common for users of legacy operating system to continue to use their legacy programs that also are no longer being supported by their developers. And it is not uncommon for hardware makers to release updated drivers and firmware that have NOT be fully tested with legacy, or specifically unsupported operating systems. It also is not uncommon for users to attach new generation hardware to those legacy systems - new hardware the makers may not have provided fully tested drivers for use with legacy OSs.

Just because in your experience, Lex, you have not seen something occur, that does not mean it does not happen.

****

As far as MS pushing out unfinished products, I believe that has been Microsoft's MO beginning in earnest with Windows 10 - though actually its roots go back to the beginning of Windows Update, which started way WAY back with Windows 9x.

MS uses Windows Updates to push out new features and "improvements" in phases, allowing them to listen for fallout before [hopefully] implementation is wide spread. At least that's the theory. But many times, those new features and improvement are push out prematurely and I put 95% of the blame for that on Microsoft marketing weenies, and 5% on the C-Level execs for allowing the marketing weenies to have such control.

I contend the developers at Microsoft are extremely sharp, dedicated, professionals with sincere desires to put out top-quality products. Sadly, they don't control the purse-strings or release timetables. Over the years, I have met several (I didn't say "a lot" ) developers who expressed to their superiors (and me) that products were not ready for release, but were released by the marketing weenies anyway - to the embarrassment of the developers even though it was out of their control. One former senior manager in the development department at MS, is now a personal friend, quit MS taking a pay cut in the process because of that.

Many would argue W8 was unfinished. While it had some great features, including significantly improved security, and touchscreen support, the new UI was horrendous for users who preferred to use their keyboards and mice to navigate about. This was extremely pi$$-poor planning because almost no one had PC monitors that supported touchscreens. We still don't! But the marketing weenies wanted it because they assumed consumers would immediately take to it and then buy Windows Phones that had the similar "Metro UI".

When W10 was released, it came with a brand new browser, the first iteration of Edge (now called Edge Legacy), built around Microsoft's own proprietary mad browser engine that was clearly unfinished. But despite the objections of the developers who knew full well it was not ready, the marketing weenies ensured it was bundled with W10. It was such a disaster (technically and in terms of PR), that MS had no choice but abandon it completely and start over with a new Edge based on a totally different browser engine (Chromium). MS invested so much into version of Edge (hoping to put IE in the distant past), it took them many months to come out with the new, Chromium based Edge. Don't get me started on these two totally different browsers having the same name. That's a different discussion.

W11 still is not finished - in fact, Microsoft touts that it is ever evolving. But sadly, MS has NOT learned their lesson. Look at how they are pushing out the "New Outlook", forcing the end to Microsoft Calendar email. There are many reports of user's entire appointment schedules being deleted, instead of being migrated over.

At least it appears the core/kernel features of the W11 OS seem to be working fine - for now.

 

[bonehead123]

They can have my W10Pro install when they can pry it from my cold, dead m.2

Or at least until they finish monkeying around with 11, by which time 12 will be out, and the cycle can start all over again...

 

[pexxie]

The VM is the only machine I've encountered an issue on (and a very specific one at that): the minimize/maximize/close buttons don't display properly in Modern Apps

Thank you for sharing. I found you when Googling it. For me it's the usual suspect; VirtualBox's 3D acceleration. Those buttons magically appear when I turn it off.

 

[lexluthermiester]

You mean I missed your posts that predate my registration on TPU? You don’t say.

The point was, don't claim something to someone who actually knows better. You want to make me a very pissy guy, that's a great way to do it.

I was in the Dev Preview for 11 too. Was literally part of my work since I needed to evaluate whether upgrading our Pcs was worth it. I saw and used all the Beta builds too.

Then you know just as well as I do that the RTM of 11 wasn't unfinished or incomplete. It may not have had the features YOU wanted or thought should have been included, but that does not make it incomplete. Additionally, most of the "features" you rifled off about above are things some of us could not care less about. Which leads us too...

The fucking consensus among all the other testers I spoke to was that the RTM was too early and raw to be released.

...this. Opinions, not held by everyone. Some of us were very much pleased with the state of RTM 11(22000.194).

You are, unironically, the first person I have seen in this Earth who is actually tech literate to say that 11 was not unfinished.

Expand your horizons a bit maybe? I am far from alone. Once again, I'm not saying it was perfect. I'm only saying it was ready for primetime use and it was a smooth release. Context is important here.

So your anecdotal experience with one OS means it doesn't happen? Come on, Lex!

No what I'm saying is that it doesn't just fall apart, even in it's default state, previous version of Windows do not just implode unless subjected to external "things".

I'm not answering the rest of that statement because we could go on for days. The main points are you are talking are theoretical and perpetuating the myth. I am talking practicals and sharing experience and knowledge based on same.

Stop spreading the fun and fearmongering. It's fine to warn people that an older OS is not supported and using it should be done with cautions and proper expectations. It's not ok to tell people not to use something because out of date. That's like tell people: "OH you have to upgrade/update to 24H2 because 23H2/22H2/21H2 will crap the bed and implode on you if you don't!!" It's moose muffins and a total myth.

 

[droopyRO]

Many computer enthusiasts seem to forget they were newbies once too. And they forget that the vast majority of users are not security experts, nor should they need to be.

This, thank you !

I don't know who keeps his/hers grandmother's computer on Windows 7, while she is doing online bank account transactions. No, it's even more important to have an antivirus/ransomware/firewall and up to date OS and browser, for persons that are not tech oriented and you care about.

 

[GoldenX]

Have been using 24H2 since the release preview and the RTM LTSC. Usual Microsoft garbage bloat aside, it's a good release, especially for power consumption and performance with the security features enabled.

Grandma should be using Linux for bank transactions if the system is too old for current Windows releases.

 

[Bill_Bright]

No what I'm saying is that it doesn't just fall apart, even in it's default state, previous version of Windows do not just implode unless subjected to external "things".

So you agree with me on that. Thanks for finally admitting it.

It's fine to warn people that an older OS is not supported and using it should be done with cautions and proper expectations. It's not ok to tell people not to use something because out of date.

What a bunch of malarkey, Lex.

You say it is fine to warn people but then you object and claim FUD and fearmongering if the warning goes against your own practices.

First, STOP misrepresenting what I and others have said. That is deceitful at best. I never told anyone here to stop using it because it was out of date.

Second, what I said was unsupported operating systems pose a threat to others and therefore, such systems should not be connected to a network that has Internet access. I also said, repeatedly, that these issues do NOT suddenly appear the day after support ends but rather it would be months or longer - typically once 3rd party security apps stop supporting it.

Third, I even said those who claim these systems will suddenly stop or become infected are spreading FUD.

Fourth , I also noted a lot of users did indeed experience crashes. You then promptly denied that claiming because YOU never saw it, it cannot be so! . HOWEVER I immediately added it may be due to collateral damage - which now you agree with by noting external "things", as you called them.

Make up your mind, Lex. For it is you spreading the conflicting misinformation. Not us.

 

[freeagent]

Lol..

For me the best version of 11 was the very first one. I beat all of my old benchmark scores from 10, except Super Pi

Now.. I mean its ok, but Linpack Xtreme does not work properly anymore

 

[JLBENEDICT]

No, I'd say that you should certainly start thinking about it. No fear mongering with that statement. He's not saying "GET OFF NOW!!!" or anything, hes saying... time to start thinking if you want to stay online longterm. Which it is.

This aligns with the same scare tactics of "OMG.. don't put your Windows 7 machine on the net, after EOL or it will implode!!"

This has been proven to be false. Your "EOL" Windows 10 install will not become a magnet for hackers and script kiddies unless you do something foolish and advertise it as such

 

[Bill_Bright]

This aligns with the same scare tactics of "OMG.. don't put your Windows 7 machine on the net, after EOL or it will implode!!"

Agreed. But I think it important to note that not a single person in this thread has made such a claim. And yet, at least one person is getting all riled up, using that never mentioned claim as an excuse to get all riled up over it.

 

[R-T-B]

This aligns with the same scare tactics of "OMG.. don't put your Windows 7 machine on the net, after EOL or it will implode!!"

I really don't see that.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I really don't see that.

Yeah, that's pretty much my point. I see folks claim others spew such FUD, but I don't recall reading someone claiming first hand experience. That does not mean it hasn't happened - I just don't recall seeing it. It certainly is not a widespread claim.

My brother-in-law's uncle's first cousin's wife's brother saw it though. So it must be true.

 

[tpa-pr]

Dunno why the hell Win11 Pro doesn't offer this update to me. Still running 23H2 and "check for updates" does nothing.

View attachment 370170

See my post here, on a couple of machines I've had to install the PC Health Check app and check for compatibility to get the upgrade process to work. All of them were compatible and running 23H2 but all required the extra step.