Intel denies RMA due to the use of Liquid Metal as a TIM

[ShiBDiB]

Intel Denies RMA Request For Core i9-14900K CPU Witnessing Instability Issues Due To Use of Liquid-Metal Thermal Paste

Intel has reportedly denied a CPU RMA request that involved instability issues, citing that the processor utilized liquid-metal thermal paste.

wccftech.com

Found this interesting. I've never used liquid metal as a TIM, never saw the need when other normal TIM's work just fine.

 

[ty_ger]

I'm not surprised. This isn't the first time a CPU company has denied a warranty due to physical damage.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Since liquid metal TIM irreversibly damages the IHS (it's cosmetic, but damage nonetheless), I understand why the RMA employee denied this one.

 

[ir_cow]

Its in the warranty policy. Don't see the problem. Yeah the CPU failed, but the person voided their own warranty in the first place. Only reason to use LM is if your delid, otherwise it voids your warranty AND you don't get much benefit (if any) over normal paste.

 

[_roman_]

Nothing unusual.

 

[Solaris17]

User broke warranty policy and didn’t get RMA. Math seems to make sense to me.

 

[kapone32]

So one of the Strix laptops premium features is the fact that they use LM on the CPU and GPU. Does that mean if you have a Strix laptop with an Intel chip that they will not honour the Warranty if the CPU fails?

 

[Calenhad]

So one of the Strix laptops premium features is the fact that they use LM on the CPU and GPU. Does that mean if you have a Strix laptop with an Intel chip that they will not honour the Warranty if the CPU fails?

No IHS to damage in laptops. And ASUS still provide warranty on a product they sell

 

[kapone32]

No IHS to damage in laptops. And ASUS still provide warranty on a product they sell

Have you ever tried an Asus warranty? It was one of my first posts (rant) on TPU.

 

[iameatingjam]

That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. After all that bad press, they are taking back pretty much any raptor lake cpu right now, even if there's nothing wrong with it. Physical damage though? Thats different, even if its cosmetic. Its not even minor cosmetic damage, you can't even see the numbers on the front.

On that note... good thing I didn't use liquid metal back when I was thinking about it!

 

[tabascosauz]

So one of the Strix laptops premium features is the fact that they use LM on the CPU and GPU. Does that mean if you have a Strix laptop with an Intel chip that they will not honour the Warranty if the CPU fails?

Intel wouldn't handle that RMA anyway......?

It doesn't matter if you have an Intel or AMD desktop CPU, if your IHS is severely damaged or defaced to the point of removing all markings on it, both RMAs would be refused. They can't identify any, y'know, identifying markings that they require in the RMA process. LM doesn't do anything of that sort to the bare die, and the bare die doesn't have any identifying info on it.

 

[Bones]

That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. After all that bad press, they are taking back pretty much any raptor lake cpu right now, even if there's nothing wrong with it. Physical damage though? Thats different, even if its cosmetic. Its not even minor cosmetic damage, you can't even see the numbers on the front.

On that note... good thing I didn't use liquid metal back when I was thinking about it!

I've been saying all along LM is not a TIM you really want to use because of the damaging effects it has on stuff over time.
Already proven as fact this stuff WILL eventually render things like coolers and stuff in a state that makes it not work as well, if at all.
Nickel plating for example, while it does slow down it's destructive effects it still fails to stop it period from doing it.

I can see in a couple of years folks that bought PS5 consoles suddenly running into problems caused by the use of LM in those machines, in fact I woudn't doubt it's already started happening by now.
If there are different formulated kinds of LM, I'm not aware of them but did see this and noted how this is related to "Wetting", or how well it embeds itself into other materials.
Liquid metal - Wikipedia

 

[Bill_Bright]

So one of the Strix laptops premium features is the fact that they use LM on the CPU and GPU. Does that mean if you have a Strix laptop with an Intel chip that they will not honour the Warranty if the CPU fails?

If the manufacturer applied it, and the user didn't mess with it causing damage, then yes, the warranty is still honored.

I note one of the problems (among several) with liquid metal TIMs (at least with some formulas) is they tend to get runny when heated up. For tower cases, that means if too much was applied by the user (a common mistake by the less experienced), then some may run out and into the socket and onto the motherboard. Not good.

If care is taken to ensure only the smallest amount necessary is applied, that typically is not a problem - especially with laptops since they typically are not used in a vertical orientation.

As for Intel CPUs, I am pretty sure the use of liquid metal TIM has been a disqualifier for warranty support for several years. It is not new. And for sure, if the markings are ineligible, that has been a disqualifier, essentially forever.

I just spent some time looking on AMD's support pages and I cannot find where it specifically says the use of LM TIM will invalidate the warranty. But it does say scratches "affecting marking legibility" "will invalidate any AMD warranty".

If I honestly believed a CPU failed due to a manufacturing defect and not something I did to damage it, I would be upset if my RMD request was denied. But if it was denied because I used a TIM that made the identifying markings illegible, I would understand and [reluctantly] accept their decision.

 

[iameatingjam]

I've been saying all along LM is not a TIM you really want to use because of the damaging effects it has on stuff over time.
Already proven as fact this stuff WILL eventually render things like coolers and stuff in a state that makes it not work as well, if at all.
Nickel plating for example, while it does slow down it's destructive effects it still fails to stop it period from doing it.

I can see in a couple of years folks that bought PS5 consoles suddenly running into problems caused by the use of LM in those machines, in fact I woudn't doubt it's already started happening by now.
If there are different formulated kinds of LM, I'm not aware of them but did see this and noted how this is related to "Wetting", or how well it embeds itself into other materials.
Liquid metal - Wikipedia

Yeah thats pretty much why I decided against it, also I think I was over-estimating the heat generated by the 14700k. Once I had it, I realized with the 253 limit in place, it doesn't really get that hot unless you put it into a long all thread pounding. For just gaming and general use... doesn't get that hot, not in my experience anyway.

 

[Bones]

Yeah thats pretty much why I decided against it, also I think I was over-estimating the heat generated by the 14700k. Once I had it, I realized with the 253 limit in place, it doesn't really get that hot unless you put it into a long all thread pounding. For just gaming and general use... doesn't get that hot, not in my experience anyway.

I can understand why folks want to get the most cooling effect from their TIM but at the same time I'm not gonna sweat a few degrees in temp difference, just to pay alot more per oz/gram over it.
As long as it's running cool I'm fine with it - Not to mention in my case LM is completely useless anyway due to what I do sometimes.

Been running MX-2 and 4 for a long time now for everything here and it gets the job done, even if running things at sub-zero temps.... Which I do from time to time.

 

[R-T-B]

Intel Denies RMA Request For Core i9-14900K CPU Witnessing Instability Issues Due To Use of Liquid-Metal Thermal Paste

Intel has reportedly denied a CPU RMA request that involved instability issues, citing that the processor utilized liquid-metal thermal paste.

wccftech.com

Found this interesting. I've never used liquid metal as a TIM, never saw the need when other normal TIM's work just fine.

Liquid metal not properly cleaned (and it is hard if not impossible) has always been an auto warranty void.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Liquid metal not properly cleaned (and it is hard if not impossible) has always been an auto warranty void.

That CPU does look properly cleaned to me, however IHS damage caused by LM is irreversible. I used Conductonaut on an i7-3770K once, it smudged much worse than that, the whole IHS got dark grey, almost black as if it had oxidized to an extreme. I ended up selling it as "Processor is in good working condition, will ship delidded - stock IHS is included but has liquid metal damage, recommend purchasing an aftermarket copper IHS or lapping the one included, sold as is". Asked $15 for it back in 2020, listing was up for 20 minutes before it had a new owner. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you're considering using liquid metal on a CPU and plan on selling it later you should always use an aftermarket IHS and keep the original one stored away.

 

[R-T-B]

That CPU does look properly cleaned to me

As cleaned as it can be. In some rare instances where the LM has not been on long (less than a month usually) I have been able to get it completely clean again with no surface damage. That was obviously not the case here.

 

[wheresmycar]

So corrosively clean it stripped away the etched details on the IHS. I bet they knew RMA was invalidated but still tried their luck. The user would have had better luck dropping a sticker on it and drawing the details on, adding "pretty pls".

 

[Noci]

Liquid metal as a TIM only reaches it's full potential on a bare die, with all of the other options we nowadays why use it on an IHS in the first place?

I'm not suprised that damage on the IHS like (chemical) corrosion or (mechanical) lapping or completely removing (delidding) it voids waranty of the CPU.
I personally wouldn't blame the manufacterer for denying a RMA if that was the case, even if it is not the to be the expected culprit it could open Pandora's box if they just accepted it.

 

[Chrispy_]

I don't understand why people go crazy over TIM choice. Unless you have some massive overclock, your CPU shouldn't be running anywhere near the throttle temperature even with the most basic thermal grease.

If super-basic thermal grease can keep your CPU at 80C, and liquid metal cuts that down to 70C, then you haven't really gained anything.
If your CPU was throttling without liquid metal, then there is a lot of lower-hanging fruit to pick before changing TIM is the best option.

Personally, I've been using PTM7950 pads for about a year in systems that I'm shipping off never to be seen or touched by me again. Those pads should last indefinitely, rather than thermal goop which is probably only good for 2-5 years depending on the goop in question.

 

[eidairaman1]

I've been saying all along LM is not a TIM you really want to use because of the damaging effects it has on stuff over time.
Already proven as fact this stuff WILL eventually render things like coolers and stuff in a state that makes it not work as well, if at all.
Nickel plating for example, while it does slow down it's destructive effects it still fails to stop it period from doing it.

I can see in a couple of years folks that bought PS5 consoles suddenly running into problems caused by the use of LM in those machines, in fact I woudn't doubt it's already started happening by now.
If there are different formulated kinds of LM, I'm not aware of them but did see this and noted how this is related to "Wetting", or how well it embeds itself into other materials.
Liquid metal - Wikipedia

Think of galvanic corrosion

 

[Bones]

Think of galvanic corrosion

Exactly.
Gallium is something that eats away at many metals and materials in general.
Don't even think about letting it come in contact with aluminum......

 

[R0H1T]

Good, abuses this ruin the experience for genuine users, like me! If you want to "play" with your chip, do it at your own expense

 

[:D:D]

Synnex claimed that the use of liquid metal on the IHS had eroded the surface, which has made the product and serial number on the surface unidentifiable

There's still the 2D Matrix on the substrate

How to Find the Full Serial Number of your Intel® Processor by...

How to decode 2D Matrix to get full serial number for Intel® Boxed Processors

www.intel.com

Starting Q1 of year 2022, 12th Gen Intel® Core™ Desktop Processors and later Desktop Processor generations will feature a second 2D Matrix and the new Intel trademark (

) on the top of the processor. The second 2D Matrix will have the same full serial number (ATPO) as the first 2D Matrix that is located on the outside edge of the processor.