Affordable HEDT, is there such a thing?

[Rorre]

I need at least 48 PCIe lanes, what are my options? Presently, I’m utilizing the X299 platform with a 10980xe. Looking for an affordable option. Its very discouraging as I research the options to replacing my system, cost benefit analysis is outrageous. Is Zen3 Threadripper, say 5945wx or 5955wx, an option that will be affordable and sustainable for at least 3 more years? Is a Zen2 Threadripper suitable, or is it long in the tooth also? Compute CFD simulations are stressing my X299 platform, money is tight for a replacement. Whether Intel or AMD motherboard options for quad channel memory and 40+ PCIe lanes are expensive in the used marketplace. Any ideas out there?

 

[unwind-protect]

I would get Zen3 EPYC. It has enough PCIe lanes and takes DDR4 ECC reg which is dirt cheap.

The mainboard will be expensive, yes.

 

[kapone32]

X399. I think Amazon stills sells the 1900X. Even though the Zen3 Epyc chips have come down in price they are still really expensive. You might even find 2920x on Ebay.

 

[unwind-protect]

X399. I think Amazon stills sells the 1900X. Even though the Zen3 Epyc chips have come down in price they are still really expensive. You might even find 2920x on Ebay.

Well, if you go down to Zen 2 the H11 Supermicro boards become cheaper, as well as the CPUs.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I need at least 48 PCIe lanes, what are my options? Presently, I’m utilizing the X299 platform with a 10989xe. Looking for an affordable option. Its very discouraging as I research the options to replacing my system, cost benefit analysis is outrageous. Is Zen3 Threadripper, say 5945wx or 5955wx, an option that will be affordable and sustainable for at least 3 more years? Is a Zen2 Threadripper suitable, or is it long in the tooth also? Compute CFD simulations are stressing my X299 platform, money is tight for a replacement. Whether Intel or AMD motherboard options for quad channel memory and 40+ PCIe lanes are expensive in the used marketplace. Any ideas out there?

No. HEDT is frankly a mess and there's nothing really better than a 10980XE given your specific requirements. Raptor and Arrow Lake match it in performance, lose out on lanes. The same situation is to be expected with X670E + Zen 4/5, and it's actually worse with X870E as AMD mandates USB 4.0 support which requires an external controller and this has further reduced lane count available in 800 series chipsets by 4. You might get away with earlier generation Xeon Scalable server parts from AliExpress (do some research on Xeon Platinum 8200-series chips), but the motherboards are not easy to get and generally, not on the affordable side. Unless some very old Naples samples, EPYC in general is not affordable even resorting to AliExpress.

AMD elitized Threadripper to the extreme, dropped the Ryzen branding and pretty much all of the current-gen TRs are priced out of reach and out of market, since Intel no longer competes in that niche. Expect to disimburse $5,000 for the processor alone if adopting latest-gen TR non-Pro flagship.

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 7980X Review

AMD's 64-core Ryzen Threadripper 7980X drives leading multi-threaded performance with superb efficiency. It's pricey and runs hot, but pro content creators and demanding users using optimized software will thrill to its power, and all those cores and threads.

www.pcmag.com

Be aware that Threadripper (consumer) and Threadripper Pro are very different products targeting different segments, the Pro chips are basically EPYC's with a few additional restrictions, with a price to match. Zen 3's version also uses a different chipset altogether, which further raises the prices due to low availability of the motherboards.

X399. I think Amazon stills sells the 1900X. Even though the Zen3 Epyc chips have come down in price they are still really expensive. You might even find 2920x on Ebay.

Straight downgrade from i9-10980XE performance-wise unless you buy the 2990WX - and even then it is still a downgrade if AVX-512 is involved and in many more node-unaware workloads.

Well, if you go down to Zen 2 the H11 Supermicro boards become cheaper, as well as the CPUs.

Zen 2 is TRX40 not X399. Zen 3 Threadripper was aborted and TRX40 ended up receiving only one CPU generation. It's not affordable (in fact, it is very expensive due to scarcity) and by most metrics, obsolete. Threadripper Pro and EPYC have bad pricing all around. I guess it's just not meant to be, tough niche to be in right now.

 

[eidairaman1]

Well, if you go down to Zen 2 the H11 Supermicro boards become cheaper, as well as the CPUs.

I know epyc finally came down to am4 or 5, question is there any boards with the connectivity

 

[unwind-protect]

I know epyc finally came down to am4 or 5, question is there any boards with the connectivity

No.

 

[LabRat 891]

I know epyc finally came down to am4 or 5, question is there any boards with the connectivity

The platform itself, is limited in PCIe lane capacity. EPYC on AM5 doesn't expand that.
-it's more/less Ryzen 9000 Pro, but marketed like the old single socket Opterons.

 

[Solaris17]

I deal in the server and work station space a lot. Mobos are going to be the challenge here just like HEDT. They are expensive. If you are looking for root ports for the $$ AMD will be what you want.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Affordable HEDT, is there such a thing?

Short answer, No. This is why it's called "High-End Desk-Top".

However, if you're careful and know what top look for, you can find reasonable values on used or discontinued parts.

I need at least 48 PCIe lanes, what are my options? Presently, I’m utilizing the X299 platform with a 10980xe.

That's still a relevant system, especially with that beast of a CPU. Are you looking because you need more compute or are you maybe just jonesing for an upgrade?

Its very discouraging as I research the options to replacing my system, cost benefit analysis is outrageous. Is Zen3 Threadripper, say 5945wx or 5955wx, an option that will be affordable and sustainable for at least 3 more years? Is a Zen2 Threadripper suitable, or is it long in the tooth also?

A Zen 2 based 3970X Threadripper would effectively double your compute power, depending on what you want to run. IF you don't need that many cores, the 3960X would be a happy middle ground. With both of those CPU's, the parts required would amount to the CPU, a mobo, a cooler for the CPU and a new PSU/case(depending on what you have already). Your existing 64GB of DDR4 would slide right in seamlessly. You'd boost your performance by a very healthy margin without breaking the bank. Anything newer is going to be much more expensive and will require an RAM upgrade as well.

 

[ir_cow]

48 lanes or Gen3, 4 or 5?

 

[Rorre]

Short answer, No. This is why it's called "High-End Desk-Top".

However, if you're careful and know what top look for, you can find reasonable values on used or discontinued parts.

That's still a relevant system, especially with that beast of a CPU. Are you looking because you need more compute or are you maybe just jonesing for an upgrade?

A Zen 2 based 3970X Threadripper would effectively double your compute power, depending on what you want to run. IF you don't need that many cores, the 3960X would be a happy middle ground. With both of those CPU's, the parts required would amount to the CPU, a mobo, a cooler for the CPU and a new PSU/case(depending on what you have already). Your existing 64GB of DDR4 would slide right in seamlessly. You'd boost your performance by a very healthy margin without breaking the bank. Anything newer is going to be be much more expensive and will require an RAM upgrade as well.

Yes, I’m looking for more compute. However, as much as I see that Zen2 would resolve the compute issue minus AVX512, I’d still be saddled with an antiquated platform from Q4 2019. And, for a significant sum of money, though well short of a Zen3 platform.
I appreciate your analysis, and am inclined to source and price out the Zen2 and Zen3 parts needed. Then I will determine my course of action. I have a number of upgraded components ready to go, including Asus Dual RTX4080, Kingston 2TB Gen4 m.2 ssd, Crucial 1TB Gen4 m.2 ssd, Corsair RM850x (thinking to exchange for RM1000x). Cheers.

48 lanes or Gen3, 4 or 5?

Gen3 or 4 doesn’t matter. Platforms with Gen5 are way out of my price range.

I know epyc finally came down to am4 or 5, question is there any boards with the connectivity

Wanting to steer clear of any server platform.

 

[kapone32]

Still available new

https://www.amazon.ca/TR4-AMD-X399-Gaming-Motherboard-X399-Phantom/dp/B07L5TP1SJ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=37XIF9F37X4H5&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.E3XTwcFdiac90du8aLJcTodV3XofV6mgRWPzqIIMwndCPgTwwmuEtrtQwpjHLG2749AKAIOA5rDtLK5JMrkGM6qxikPnAo8z47LW0162tJBVE_Za2FPNItzVJqofbZ_lthqGYyWBxBq91eGD17QYkuMevzpVLvieFkWI5ixylAc6RGnqdNSKkIK4kHhSuoJo6Ik-JFw52x7KMQPYAZnMRAQcGyVm6Grvk76Yc63CP_E.99fl8T0LzO_c8jDRglcOBd03BnFlmk5L23-2Z1cK94M&dib_tag=se&keywords=X399&psr=EY17&qid=1732966885&s=cyber-monday&sprefix=X399%2Ccyber-monday%2C66&sr=1-1

 

[DaemonForce]

Situations like this are exactly why I look into utilizing a 2nd desktop and racking it. I do not invest in halo products like, ever.
I only find it acceptable when accelerator features have me commit to it. HEDT does not root itself in any of those products.
It all starts with the board and chipset. You work your way down from the board features, choose a CPU and then the rest.
Most of the high end desktop items for FX had me nope out immediately. Just not worth it no matter how I looked at it.

In 2019, all but one high end desktop Ryzen had me nope out, it was a 1st gen 8c/16t Threadripper (I think 1900X) at ~$200 USD.
After much hemming and hawwing I decided against it and in favor of an entry level Ryzen 5 3600, which I am still using today.
There's nothing wrong with these chips but TRX is huge and I'm curious when a desktop chip is going to finally obsolete my 300W cooler.

According to AI math, my 20 year old block can be used but it's obvious I'll have to rig something to secure it. That's wild.

The main driving points of HEDT is maxxing PCI-E lanes and other I/O with tons of memory.
Really the most I need on my main system:
8-12 core CPU, implying 16-24 threads
32-64GB DDR4
G4X4 NVME RAID
A single 8x pinned or 16x full size PCI-E for main accelerator
A 4x pinned PCI-E to run 10GbE networking
4x fan headers with software adjustment
A pair of USB headers for more rear I/O (I don't have front panels)

That's a REALLY basic order and it's no surprise that anything else I need would get dumped off to an older computer.
I get that being resourceful is not everyone's strength and really isn't even mine.
If you know that this arrangement doesn't apply and you NEED multiple HBAs and accelerators in one system, go HEDT.
That extremely specific situation is the entire reason it exists. Otherwise, try offloading jobs to other machines. I did.

 

[Ruru]

I know epyc finally came down to am4 or 5, question is there any boards with the connectivity

Aren't they just practically Epyc-branded Ryzens, just like with S939 Opterons were the same as A64 San Diegos in the mid-2005?

 

[unwind-protect]

Aren't they just practically Epyc-branded Ryzens, just like with S939 Opterons were the same as A64 San Diegos in the mid-2005?

Yes.

 

[Macro Device]

Arrow Lake technically sports 48 PCI-e lanes but this whole platform is a specimen to put it mildly. With AVX-512 thrown outta equation, I'm not certain it'll be reasonable to jump it. Yes, it does have AVX-VNNI but I don't know if it's good enough for your job. Not educated enough.

It's also technically possible to have a dedicated AM5 PC with 9950X and whatever lane count to crunch your numbers whilst you run your PCI-e intensive tasks on your current machine. Also don't know if it's a viable option.

Other than that, you can't do it for reasonable money. Not now at least.

Upd: might be possible to get a multiple socket X299 motherboard and buy yourself another 10980XE but this also has its disadvantages such as size at the very least.

 

[Wirko]

Wanting to steer clear of any server platform.

What's the reason, or reasons? Mobo prices? Ability to overclock? Ability to use unbuffered memory?

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

Gen3 or 4 doesn’t matter. Platforms with Gen5 are way out of my price range.

X299 (Intel) or X399 (AMD)

I have an X399+AMD Threadripper 2950wx as a home lab/server, plenty indeed of I/O choices, you really can't go wrong with these..

 

[unwind-protect]

What's the reason, or reasons? Mobo prices? Ability to overclock? Ability to use unbuffered memory?

In the DDR4 world registered RAM is a lot cheaper than UDIMMS.

 

[Rorre]

What's the reason, or reasons? Mobo prices? Ability to overclock? Ability to use unbuffered memory?

Admittedly unfamiliar with server hardware. I prefer packaging to be silent and in a midsize tower. Will be using Win11 rather Linux. I’m intimidated I suppose, and just want to install the OS and go.

In the DDR4 world registered RAM is a lot cheaper than UDIMMS.

No doubt, as I do have systems utilizing DDR4 ECC memory. However, the Xeon and Zen4 use very expensive overclockable ecc ddr5 rdimm‘s, or at least the Xeon W790 motherboards do.

X299 (Intel) or X399 (AMD)

I have an X399+AMD Threadripper 2950wx as a home lab/server, plenty indeed of I/O choices, you really can't go wrong with these..

Yes X399 improves on PCIe lanes, 60 vs 48, however on a compute scale would be at best a lateral move. And I would be giving up AVX512.

Still available new

https://www.amazon.ca/TR4-AMD-X399-Gaming-Motherboard-X399-Phantom/dp/B07L5TP1SJ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=37XIF9F37X4H5&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.E3XTwcFdiac90du8aLJcTodV3XofV6mgRWPzqIIMwndCPgTwwmuEtrtQwpjHLG2749AKAIOA5rDtLK5JMrkGM6qxikPnAo8z47LW0162tJBVE_Za2FPNItzVJqofbZ_lthqGYyWBxBq91eGD17QYkuMevzpVLvieFkWI5ixylAc6RGnqdNSKkIK4kHhSuoJo6Ik-JFw52x7KMQPYAZnMRAQcGyVm6Grvk76Yc63CP_E.99fl8T0LzO_c8jDRglcOBd03BnFlmk5L23-2Z1cK94M&dib_tag=se&keywords=X399&psr=EY17&qid=1732966885&s=cyber-monday&sprefix=X399%2Ccyber-monday%2C66&sr=1-1

And quite reasonable, opening up a few more lanes, but likely only a lateral move at the compute level.

 

[Bill_Bright]

No. HEDT is frankly a mess

I agree with "No" but to say HEDT is "a mess" is very misleading, and frankly, incorrect. HEDT is not brand name. It is a category of computers. While Intel might have come up with the acronym, it is an industry-wide term, just as "ATX" is (also created by Intel).

Lex is right,

Short answer, No. This is why it's called "High-End Desk-Top".

"High-end" may not by definition mean "expensive" but it is generally assumed to imply it.

Now if willing to build it yourself you can certainly cut some corners in the budget to help lower costs. But these cuts will certainly involve making compromises in quality and features. For example, who needs an expensive case when you can assemble it on a 2' x 2' square of plywood? Blast a powerful desk fan on it and you can forego case fans and a fancy CPU cooler. You may need a high-end mouse for precision pixel by pixel editing, but you can surely get by with a $10 keyboard. Depending on the tasks, you may be able go with hard drives instead of fast SSD. And no-name RAM. Shopping the used components market can save some bucks too.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I agree with "No" but to say HEDT is "a mess" is very misleading, and frankly, incorrect. HEDT is not brand name. It is a category of computers. While Intel might have come up with the acronym, it is an industry-wide term, just as "ATX" is (also created by Intel).

Lex is right,
"High-end" may not by definition mean "expensive" but it is generally assumed to imply it.

Now if willing to build it yourself you can certainly cut some corners in the budget to help lower costs. But these cuts will certainly involve making compromises in quality and features. For example, who needs an expensive case when you can assemble it on a 2' x 2' square of plywood? Blast a powerful desk fan on it and you can forego case fans and a fancy CPU cooler. You may need a high-end mouse for precision pixel by pixel editing, but you can surely get by with a $10 keyboard. Depending on the tasks, you may be able go with hard drives instead of fast SSD. And no-name RAM. Shopping the used components market can save some bucks too.

Bill, to clarify, "HEDT" is the denomination given to high end consumer platforms that used to be derived from server sockets, like the Intel X58, X79, X99, X299 or the AMD X399/TRX40/TRX80. Usually triple or quad channel memory with 2 to 3x the amount of PCIe lanes compared to equivalent mainstream desktop platforms (such as LGA1200 or AM4).

It's a "mess" because Intel dropped from this market entirely, AMD canceled their last generation HEDT platform mid-way (Zen 3 "Chagall" Threadrippers never released), and while it's back now with Zen 4, the pricing is far higher than Intel ever dared to charge.

The i7-6950X was the single most expensive HEDT chip at $1,700 when it launched, but AMD now charges $4,999 for the Threadripper 7980X. These are not professional parts either.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Bill, to clarify, "HEDT" is the denomination given to high end consumer platforms

I know what it means. I explained what it means. I even explained how Intel created the term which explains your "used to be" scenarios.

It's a "mess" because Intel dropped from this market entirely, AMD canceled their last generation HEDT platform

No - that's not what happened. Intel stopped selling preassembled computers long ago. As for AMD, HEDT is just a label - essentially a marketing term similar to Kleenex or Band-aid, once brand names that became names for "tissues" and "adhesive bandages" respectively, or "hoover" in the UK for vacuum cleaners.

Many companies and custom independent builders still make "high-end" computers - they just don't call them HEDTs anymore - in part, maybe, because most are built in tower cases (not horizontally orientated "desktop" cases) that sit, perhaps, on the floor and not a desktop.

Don't get stuck on the original and now archaic meaning of the acronym. It is not the same thing as it "used to be".

 

[Solaris17]

Bill, to clarify, "HEDT" is the denomination given to high end consumer platforms that used to be derived from server sockets, like the Intel X58, X79, X99, X299 or the AMD X399/TRX40/TRX80. Usually triple or quad channel memory with 2 to 3x the amount of PCIe lanes compared to equivalent mainstream desktop platforms (such as LGA1200 or AM4).

It's a "mess" because Intel dropped from this market entirely, AMD canceled their last generation HEDT platform mid-way (Zen 3 "Chagall" Threadrippers never released), and while it's back now with Zen 4, the pricing is far higher than Intel ever dared to charge.

The i7-6950X was the single most expensive HEDT chip at $1,700 when it launched, but AMD now charges $4,999 for the Threadripper 7980X. These are not professional parts either.

Yeah it’s a real shame. Both parties pretty much only leave you with workstation now. It is nice having baby servers but not many appreciate the expense of the workstation boards or some options like IPMI. It would be nice for HEDT to come back.

I still stand by what I said; AMD is still likely the best shot at pcie lanes if you’re going for something kind of modern. Though used is a real risk since a lot are scavenged from OEM systems that flip the cpu lock bit. Intel can be had for pretty cheap on the likes of eBay as well but you are more often then AMD dipping into ES chips.

Edit: you know thinking back if you are really just wanting lanes and you don’t care about looks you might actually consider a server. Dual socket or otherwise. Maybe a super micro tower off eBay or something. Supermicro is also generally less nasty about fans as well. HP,Dell etc BMCs will get ultra mad and ramp 100% and freak out if you don’t meet minimum rpm. Just a thought.