UPS and surge protector info, tips and tidbits.

[qxp]

This is meant to be a dedicated thread for discussion of UPS and surge protectors.

• Models which worked fine for you over the years ?
• Models that should be avoided ?
• UPS and surge protector electronics
• UPS battery chemistry (do you prefer lead sulfur or lithium or something else ?)
• UPS type preference - always online, AVR, something else.

There are different kinds of UPS.

• The simplest has a battery and normally just passes current through. If out of tolerance voltage is detected the UPS switches to draw power from the battery. The problem is at which point should it switch? Line voltage fluctuates from changing loads so having tight tolerance means it switches often and having loose tolerance means the output voltage can have big swings.
• The more complicated one has an internal transformer with several windings that let you step up or step down input voltage by 10-20%. Then the UPS first switches the transformer windings before using the battery. This is called "automatic voltage regulation" or something similar. These marketing terms might change with time so check how your UPS works.
• An "always online" UPS always converts input voltage (if any) to internal DC voltage, while the output is provided by DC-AC converter that always works. When input voltage is absent or too small the internal DC bus is powered by battery. This UPS provides rock steady output. It is also not necessary for such a UPS to switch, though often there would be a relay to disconnect the input.

The downsides to the UPSes that switch is that they typically use electromagnetic relays that have a limited lifespan - on the order of 10000-20000 switches. Not a problem if everything works well. Potential problem if electronics malfunctions or tolerances are too tight and it switch every few seconds.

The downside to always online UPSes is that there is efficiency loss when converting to DC and then back to AC. Depending on construction the output converter could have a limited lifespan due to capacitors for example - if anyone has info on that please post.

 

[Bill_Bright]

This has been discussed ad nauseum on this site. I don't see it becoming more than heated debate between those who are already set in their ways.

That said, I will give my three cents.

1. Models over the years? Every couple years makers come out with new models (or at least new model numbers) so not sure that information will be of use. For example, I have an APC Smart UPS 900 that is over 30 years old and still working just fine - but definitely not still in production. Most my UPS here are at least 7 years old.

2. "Models to avoid" is the same thing. I will just say, "cheap models" should be avoided - just as cheap PSUs should be avoided. And of course, underpowered models should be avoided.

3. Not a question. But a surge and spike protectors are little more than fancy and expensive extension cords as they do nothing for low voltage events like dips (opposite of spikes), sags (opposite of surges) or brownouts (long duration sags). They don't regulate the power. They "clamp" (chop off) the peaks of surges and spikes. And for excessive surges and spikes, they simply cut power (“IF” working properly), crashing your computer - never good. A "good" UPS with AVR "regulates" the voltage, attenuating when high and boosting when low (even without kicking over to battery, except for extreme anomalies) - that is a huge and most significant difference.

4. I prefer SLA (sealed lead acid) simply because they are affordable, very capable, and easy to find and for the most part, the most common are universal (not proprietary. Plus somewhere around 95% of a SLA battery can be recycled. No other battery type comes close to that.

5. Always on-line are too expensive and not needed (except in very rare, "mission critical" or medical "life support" scenarios) for computer and SOHO networks. A "good" UPS with AVR is plenty quick to react to power anomalies with time to spare. AVR is essential and the primary reason to have an UPS. Battery backup during a full power outage is just a minor bonus feature.

Do not fall for the marketing hogwash hype that today's computers need pure sinewave waveform output UPS. They don't. Stepped approximated, simulated, modified, or whatever you want to call it is just fine. Folks must remember that 99.9% of the time, the UPS is passing through the same (or perhaps slightly regulated, if needed) waveform from the wall outlet. Only when providing battery backup power during a full outage does the UPS provide UPS generated waveforms.

That said, the price for pure sinewave UPS have come down significantly in recent years to make them competitive. So if you find a "good" UPS with AVR that outputs pure sinewave waveforms when on battery at a good price, and it has all the features you want, go for it. Just do NOT dismiss a good UPS with AVR that other wise meets your power and feature needs just because it outputs a modified wave form.

 

[Shrek]

UPS

• I'm for sine wave
• Would like to try lithium in place of lead-acid (which don't last long)
• Avoid aluminum windings
• AVR should not be needed for a computer supply that can handle voltage variations (100-240V)
• Always on-line is inefficient

Surge Protector

• Tripp-Lite for me (so much more than just varistors)

 

[R-T-B]

AVR should not be needed for a computer supply that can handle voltage variations

Needed? Nah. But need is a powerful word. I imagine it reduces electronic strain more than a bit.

I too am a Tripp Lite fanboy, mostly of their UPS's. I've been buying APC as well for a bit though and they seem just fine.

 

[Shrek]

OK, I concede; AVR will reduce the number of times the UPS switches to battery.

 

[Bill_Bright]

AVR should not be needed for a computer supply that can handle voltage variations (100-240V)

It is not about the supply and simple variations. A universal input (100-240V) has nothing to with "regulating" due to "rapid" fluctuations. It simply means the supply will auto-adjust to different power grid voltages used in different parts of the world. This simply allows the makers to design and produce one model for global distribution and only have to worry about one end of the power cord.

OK, I concede; AVR will reduce the number of times the UPS switches to battery.

No, that's not it either. As I noted above,

Folks must remember that 99.9% of the time, the UPS is passing through the same (or perhaps slightly regulated, if needed) waveform from the wall outlet. Only when providing battery backup power during a full outage does the UPS provide UPS generated waveforms.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Would like to try lithium in place of lead-acid (which don't last long)

There's no reason for a UPS to last "long" (perhaps we have different definitions- for me "long" is beyond 10 minutes. For my PC's, I use that time to safely shut down. That's it. They are not meant to just carry on with what you are doing. Lead-Acid batteries that are more affordable are just fine for that.

I also have smaller UPS's that are attached to my Television, router and my fiber optic modem (or whatever that piece is that comes out of the wall). Those last about 30 minutes to an hour. That gives me enough time to break out the solar rechargeable backup batteries and keep watching the weather during tornado and hurricane seasons and a storm is here.

 

[Shrek]

Opps, by 'don't last long' I meant the batteries need replacing every few years.

I once used a bank of super-capacitors (to avoid using batteries) to get a run time of a few minutes.
Replacing a UPS Battery With Super-Capacitors : 5 Steps - Instructables

 

[Bill_Bright]

There's no reason for a UPS to last "long" (perhaps we have different definitions- for me "long" is beyond 10 minutes.

I agree - kinda.

In general I 99% agree. 10 minutes is plenty long to finish typing your sentence, save your file, close your open applications, gracefully shut down Windows, then properly turn off the computer (assuming you don't have the UPS software configured to do that for you).

If you "need" the system to stay up longer, you should consider getting a backup generator to provide power indefinitely. Then the UPS needs to only provide power during the interim between the outage and when the generator starts, stabilizes and assumes its duties.

Now for the 1% kinda part. Using my setup to illustrate - I have a 1500VA UPS on this system. If we have an outage, and I quickly power off my two monitors and my computer, that UPS will keep my wifi network and internet connection "alive" for a good 2 hours and that will let my laptop, tablets and other wireless devices still communicate with the outside world - to include using my laptop to keep watch on the power company's progress in restoring power to my neighborhood.

Now, of course, especially where I live, if a bad storm takes out our power, it is likely we will be out for more than 2 hours. 4 days this last summer! But if the outage is do to a squirrel forgetting to let go of one wire before grabbing the other, typically we are only out for 60 to 90 minutes and except for one crispy critter, all is good.

Opps, by long I meant the batteries need replacing every few years.

True, but with careful shopping, replacements are not that expensive. And by careful shopping, I mean for the UPS too as some do not have user-replaceable, industry standard batteries.

 

[Shrek]

I really want to give lithium a spin.

 

[qxp]

I really want to give lithium a spin.

I've been thinking the same, but then I saw all those videos of Teslas and ebikes catching fire and decided to wait a bit. There are other battery chemistries that are safer. And from the point of view of UPS NiMH is already better because it can take more charge/discharge cycles.

 

[Shrek]

LiFePO4 is supposed to be safe

 

[qxp]

This thread continues discussions started in another thread. The "avoid aluminum windings" comment by @Shrek above refers to the the video below. The danger of aluminum windings is that it is difficult to make reliable connections from aluminum to copper that can carry current. The soldered connection like shown in the video has a problem of work hardening, becoming brittle and then breaking, and this problem is worse for aluminum then just copper. This concern probably also applies to copper coated aluminum wire because for wire sizes used in transformers the copper coating is too thin.

 

[Shrek]

I believe that the video has crimped connections

Soldering might actually work well.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Come on. Let's leave that aluminum winding discussion back there. There already were too many silly comments made that drove that thread into the ground - like nonsense about vibrations from UPS fans causing solder joints to come apart. If you wanted to continue that discussion, IMO it should have been in a new thread about that problem specifically. If you are going to continue it here, I'm out here.

I really want to give lithium a spin.

I do too and maybe I will if the prices come down. I am not a tree hugger by any means, but I do still worry, however, about the impact on the environment with so many Li-ion batteries ending up in landfills. As I noted before SLA batteries are highly recyclable.

 

[Shrek]

That is for the OP to decide, and is an important part of

• Models that should be avoided ?

 

[qxp]

With regard to online UPS here is a plot of the voltage right now. ups3 and ups4 are online, ups7 is AVR. (ups6 is not monitored right now). The little jumps is just the granularity of the APC monitoring system.
I actually did not know they were online version when I got them - the price was about the same as others, but once I saw the plot, the difference was clear. They also don't click.

The models are "Smart-UPS RT 1500 RM XL" for ups3, "Smart-UPS RT 1500 XL" for ups4 and "Smart-UPS X 1500" for ups7.

 

[rtwjunkie]

I've been thinking the same, but then I saw all those videos of Teslas and ebikes catching fire and decided to wait a bit. There are other battery chemistries that are safer. And from the point of view of UPS NiMH is already better because it can take more charge/discharge cycles.

LiFePO4 (more commonly known as Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries are extremely safe. It is Lithium Ion that is not so stable.

 

[qxp]

Come on. Let's leave that aluminum winding discussion back there. There already were too many silly comments made that drove that thread into the ground - like nonsense about vibrations from UPS fans causing solder joints to come apart. If you wanted to continue that discussion, IMO it should have been in a new thread about that problem specifically. If you are going to continue it here, I'm out here.

The idea was to summarize the content from the other thread, so if anyone new comes in they know what we are talking about.

Also, we are in disagreement on the vibration. I've seen this happen on a few occasion in a lab, which taught me to a) secure parts and wires and b) use crimped connections when appropriate.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Nothing in the OP's opening post said anything about aluminum wires. That issues was already thoroughly discussed with everyone agreeing copper is better, if aluminum was to be used, joints should be proper and if account for dissimilar metals if applicable.

That is why I said I'm out if that line is continued.

Also, we are in disagreement on the vibration.

And that is just a nonsensical argument that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the type of UPS or for that matter ANY ELECTRONICS.

Yes, severe vibrations will shake apart a bad soldering joint. You argued the UPS cooling fan is capable of causing such vibrations. Nonsense. But assume you are right. So what? For one, that would be an extreme exception and exceptions do not make the rule.

For another, as I noted in that other thread, that would apply to every piece of electronics everywhere that has a solder joint. So that is well beyond the scope of this thread or even this site.

So come on. In order for this thread to be beneficial, lets keep it real, okay?

 

[Shrek]

No, but he asked about

• Models that should be avoided ?

and for me this includes those using crimped aluminum wires (soldered might be OK)

 

[Bill_Bright]

and for me this includes those using crimped aluminum wires (soldered might be OK)

Then go ahead. Name the specific model numbers.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Opps, by 'don't last long' I meant the batteries need replacing every few years.

Ok, I follow you now. I simply misunderstood what you were meaning. Even so, I find the cost of replacing a battery every 4 to 5 years minimal, but understand that it is a different case for others.