Possible Bending in 12700F. Any Cure? Opinion Please.

[ShrimpBrime]

There was a reason for me. I came from i5 4590 so performance was enough for me. And tests have shown that even pl1=pl2=125w, easily gets you 90%+ of the perf, pl1=pl2=150w was a bonus for me! Maybe buy a better cooler after 6 months (I never did). I did not under volt. Just pl1=pl2=150w and enabled XMP.

Heres, the test result 6mins test small fft prime95:

Spoiler: Screenshot big

View attachment 376448

Prime95 small FTT is kind of a light load.....
Try OCCT Linpack extreme AVX2. Pick a high amount of memory. Test 5 minutes all threads. Make the screen shot the same too please.

Right now, you have 100% performance, minus the XMP gains. So with XMP, you will have 110% performance.

 

[8tyone]

Prime95 small FTT is kind of a light load.....
Try OCCT Linpack extreme AVX2. Pick a high amount of memory. Test 5 minutes all threads. Make the screen shot the same too please.

Right now, you have 100% performance, minus the XMP gains. So with XMP, you will have 110% performance.

Why? What are you trying to get at? Do No, disrespect meant. I just want the boost 4.89ghz, on p95 so that performance on rpcs3 does not dip drastically.
I just want to make this clear again, no disrespect meant AT ALL, Mr ShrimpBrime!

I can do this, wouldnt that be same(enough):

May I do this, go ahead?
Thank you.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

had 2 or 3 different blcks on my 12700k when i had water cooling, now using D15 with a BCF, no bending at all on this since new in Nov 2021.

 

[8tyone]

Try OCCT Linpack extreme AVX2. Pick a high amount of memory. Test 5 minutes all threads. Make the screen shot the same too please.

Ok sorry, tell me what exact settings to pick and amount of ram.
Thank you.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Why? What are you trying to get at? Do No, disrespect meant. I just want the boost 4.89ghz, on p95 so that performance on rpcs3 does not dip drastically.
I just want to make this clear again, no disrespect meant AT ALL, Mr ShrimpBrime!

I can do this, wouldnt that be same(enough):
View attachment 376450
May I do this, go ahead?
Thank you.

No need to ask for anything. Do what you need to do.

I am trying to understand the need to power limit when appears this action isn't needed. Lower wattage for 90% performance at 3% wattage reduction doesn't make sense to me.

Respectfully, I want to be sure the cpu works properly at default settings.

Once you've confirmed this, then apply the tweaks you want and test again. Some bios settings get messed up sometimes.

The reason for a heavy burn in, this tests the cooler. So you compare defaults to ANY changes you make and can keep a record of what changes the thermal best, which is also the package power used. That is the wattage you literally dissipate as thermal energy.

TLDR, now apply tweaks and compare to default settings. See if the changes work the way you want them.

 

[DirtyDingusMcgee]

AK400 cooler is inadequate. 3.8ghz would be all I'd expect

+1 for this. 4 heatpipe cooler just isn't quite enough. On paper, it can handle it, but that is assuming perfect airflow and ambient temp.

 

[Chrispy_]

Thanks but thats solved now (for the time being, will report back in summer, also installed bracket). Please read, post 15 (3rd paragraph). Its now about the boost now.

As others have said, reset the BIOS to defaults by clearing the CMOS and confirm that you're getting stock behaviour at stock settings.

I might have missed it, but I haven't seen anyone suggest wiping and reinstalling the drivers yet. You don't need all the motherboard bloatware suite, but you should uninstall and then reinstall the PPM drivers (platform power management) and also the APO driver (dynamic boost tuning).

There might be other stuff specific to Alder Lake's P+E core architecture in Windows, I'm not sure though, Intel's last few gens aren't my forté. At the very least, I'd suggest a reinstall of the chipset drivers (Intel INF installer).

 

[8tyone]

No need to ask for anything. Do what you need to do.

What? Clicked occtx64 shows cmd. Do blend p95.

Lower wattage for 90% performance at 3% wattage reduction doesn't make sense to me.

Respectfully, I want to be sure the cpu works properly at default settings.

I saw techspot review of i7 12700f review and other reviews. Where they tested this cpu with stock bundled cooler and it was not able to sustain boost. They used (if I remember correctly), pl1=65w and pl2=180w. They found found the cpu was mostly 65w and little more at times most of the time but performance was drastic low in some circumstances like some rendering but in games more or less 7-14% low. They said even run of the mill tower coolers would do great. This motivated me and along with some youtube reviews and techpowerups own i5 11400 review where Mr. Wizzard tested at different tdps (where drastics change in temp was seen but performance was good enough) I made my choice to go with 12700f and ak400. And tested and settled on 150w for my cpu so that theres no switching always pl1 and pl2 @ 150w. I know my cooler is not beefy enough. At he time of buying many coolers were out of stock. i5 12600 and i7 12700f were almost same price. I got the i7, my first i7! Earlier the same p95 was giving 4.89ghz why not now. Even with starfield everything was fine.

Once you've confirmed this, then apply the tweaks you want and test again. Some bios settings get messed up sometimes.

Yes, I didnt check before but now I checked with nov bios update a lot of options been added and I didnt see it all this time. There was an option to automatically download and instal driver + utilities + crapware too.

I might have missed it, but I haven't seen anyone suggest wiping and reinstalling the drivers yet. You don't need all the motherboard bloatware suite, but you should uninstall and then reinstall the PPM drivers (platform power management) and also the APO driver (dynamic boost tuning).

Tell me which one: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-B660M-MORTAR-DDR4/support#driver

+1 for this. 4 heatpipe cooler just isn't quite enough. On paper, it can handle it, but that is assuming perfect airflow and ambient temp.

I tested it on June July in summer here every door, ventilator, ceiling fan closed and stopped. Fans at auto. for some reason I have really good airflow. 3-5 days every month 1.5hrs or more each time. with p95 with these settings:

@ShrimpBrime "Did Large FFT", 5-6mins. Settings:

DID NOT DISABLE AVX2!
Result here:

Spoiler: Screenshot big

 

[ShrimpBrime]

What? Clicked occtx64 shows cmd. Do blend p95.


I saw techspot review of i7 12700f review and other reviews. Where they tested this cpu with stock bundled cooler and it was not able to sustain boost. They used (if I remember correctly), pl1=65w and pl2=180w. They found found the cpu was mostly 65w and little more at times most of the time but performance was drastic low in some circumstances like some rendering but in games more or less 7-14% low. They said even run of the mill tower coolers would do great. This motivated me and along with some youtube reviews and techpowerups own i5 11400 review where Mr. Wizzard tested at different tdps (where drastics change in temp was seen but performance was good enough) I made my choice to go with 12700f and ak400. And tested and settled on 150w for my cpu so that theres no switching always pl1 and pl2 @ 150w. I know my cooler is not beefy enough. At he time of buying many coolers were out of stock. i5 12600 and i7 12700f were almost same price. I got the i7, my first i7! Earlier the same p95 was giving 4.89ghz why not now. Even with starfield everything was fine.


Yes, I didnt check before but now I checked with nov bios update a lot of options been added and I didnt see it all this time. There was an option to automatically download and instal driver + utilities + crapware too.


Tell me which one: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-B660M-MORTAR-DDR4/support#driver


I tested it on June July in summer here every door, ventilator, ceiling fan closed and stopped. Fans at auto. for some reason I have really good airflow. 3-5 days every month 1.5hrs or more each time. with p95 with these settings: View attachment 376466

I don't know why it's not giving 4.89ghz during Prime95. It should be doing that at defaults no problem.

So the idea was to reset cmos and test at stock. Make sure it's not a hardware setting. If it boosts normal at default, it was a janky bios setting. If it continues to act strange or unexpected, there could be something going on with windows and applications installed there within.

To understand if it's throttling, it's seems ok under normal circumstances, I believe you can try your settings again and see if it remains boosting to 4.9ghz. remember boosting is planted on a timer. This does not remain forever.

 

[DirtyDingusMcgee]

No need to keep posting a picture of prime95. We know what it is.

I, too, live in a very hot climate, and I wouldn't trust that cooler to be sufficient. If you are satisfied, more power to you.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

No need to keep posting a picture of prime95. We know what it is.

I, too, live in a very hot climate, and I wouldn't trust that cooler to be sufficient. If you are satisfied, more power to you.

I question if he's just seeing boosting droop during the AVX512 swings prime95 likes to do. Either way, OCCT program would have his cpu at throttle point under 5 minutes, really bad under 1 minute. Prime digits just isn't enough. A lot of details missing, piece it together. Was the system setting power plan changed and simply forgot? using vender power plan instead of windows power plan? Still a ways to go for understanding it. Fixation on P95 must now be broken.

 

[8tyone]

I question if he's just seeing boosting droop during the AVX512 swings prime95 likes to do. Either way, OCCT program would have his cpu at throttle point under 5 minutes, really bad under 1 minute. Prime digits just isn't enough. A lot of details missing, piece it together. Was the system setting power plan changed and simply forgot? using vender power plan instead of windows power plan? Still a ways to go for understanding it. Fixation on P95 must now be broken.

My avx512 is disabled by default! Not kidding but no avx512! yes Power plan changed to high performance.
When I bought PC, same windows tested (old 2021 version) also the latest. Only redistributables used and drivers used. Only difference is nov 2023 bios update.
Roll back?

I use p95 because of all the real life softwares and games I use nothing reaches p95 small fft Level2 tests. Only Handbrake custom setting reaches small FFT Level1 temps but not Level2. Good enough for me. Even rpcs3 reaches and stresses small fft lvel 1 only. At default bios settings pl1=pl2=4096watts in my motherboard!!

If you are satisfied, more power to you.

I thoroughly tested it, every day with beeps set if certain temps broken and logs. Turned my room into a hotbox. No offence meant at all. Texas is that hot?! How humid at your place? I found Delhi breezy but landing in Guwahati, I started to burn up from the inside out. I am from the state where the most rain records occurs in the world.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

My avx512 is disabled by default! Not kidding but no avx512! yes Power plan changed to high performance.
When I bought PC, same windows tested (old 2021 version) also the latest. Only redistributables used and drivers used. Only difference is nov 2023 bios update.
Roll back?

I thoroughly tested it, every day with beeps set if certain temps broken and logs. Turned my room into a hotbox. No offence meant at all. Texas is that hot?! How humid at your place? I found Delhi breezy but landing in Guwahati, I started to burn up from the inside out. I am from the state where the most rain records occurs in the world.

Right the Intelnfirmware emulated 512, doesn't officially support it. So it does so at performance penalty. Not the point already haha.

Just wanted to see if its boosting 4.9ghz at defaults. It did.

Have you applied user desired limits and test yet or what???? XD

 

[8tyone]

Right the Intelnfirmware emulated 512, doesn't officially support it. So it does so at performance penalty. Not the point already haha.

Just wanted to see if its boosting 4.9ghz at defaults. It did.

Have you applied user desired limits and test yet or what???? XD

Did not understand. where boost 4.9ghz?
No its at default? Large fft test memory test.
Do custom settings?

Wait a min: By default you mean no stress? Earlier it used to boost 4.89ghz with all cores loaded.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I, too, live in a very hot climate

A hot climate does not matter unless you operate your computer outdoors or don't have air conditioning. I lived in Arizona and New Mexico for many years. Extreme heat of the desert Southwest was not the problem. The problem was the extremely low humidity (at least until the monsoons came) made worse by the HVAC systems (unless you had swamp coolers). And of course the problem with extremely low humidity is static. But that's for a different discussion.

As for trusting a cooling, it is not a matter of should you or shouldn't you. Monitor your temps and verify one way or another. Just remember, it is the case's responsibility to provide an adequate supply of cool air flowing through the case. And it is the user's responsibility to ensure case cooling (and ambient/room temps) is configured and able to provide it. The CPU cooler need only toss the CPU's heat up into that air flow.

Also, if your computer stays adequately cooled with Prime95, great. But even if it doesn't, that does NOT automatically mean you have inadequate cooling. Prime95 does NOT simulate real-world. It is designed to stress to the max the system with artificial scenarios. What matters is how well your cooling keeps your system adequately cooled when the user is using their computer. Monitor temps and do your normal tasks. I use and recommend Core Temp to monitor CPU temps in real time. Under Options > Settings > Notification Area, I have mine set to display "Highest temperature" only.

And it should be noted that the IHS being concaved or convex is very common, as Google notes. Typically, when the cooler is mounted, it flattens out and any deviance is compensated for by the TIM.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Did not understand. where boost 4.9ghz?
No its at default? Large fft test memory test.
Do custom settings?

Your own words post #27 " I just want 4.89ghz boost. (which is 4.9ghz but bclk droop...)

That is the main focus of the testing so far.

I don't care what settings you test with. Test with all of them.

Then make changes to the system.

Run all the same exact tests again.

Conclude

The initial focus anyways....

 

[Chrispy_]

Tell me which one: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-B660M-MORTAR-DDR4/support#driver

The Chipset INF driver is on the first tab, the DTT is on the last tab labelled "Others Drivers".

I don't see MSI hosting the APO, but you can get it from the Microsoft Store:

Intel® Application Optimization - Free download and install on Windows | Microsoft Store

Requirements: Microsoft® Windows® 11, Intel® Hybrid technology based processor containing 6 Performance cores or greater, latest BIOS, enabled Intel® Dynamic Tuning Technology (DTT). Intel® Application Optimization is a new policy within Intel® Dynamic Tuning Technology framework that...

apps.microsoft.com

 

[8tyone]

Your own words post #27 " I just want 4.89ghz boost. (which is 4.9ghz but bclk droop...)

That is the main focus of the testing so far.

I don't care what settings you test with. Test with all of them.

Then make changes to the system.

Run all the same exact tests again.

Conclude

The initial focus anyways....

Its not even reaching 4.2ghz. 4.1ghz only with reset bios @180w-190w, tdp. Testing with custom settings like before irrespective of os version, p95 version, rpcs3 gives 3.8ghz boost. Tested already, as said before. Only thing left is rollback bios. Or consider cpu damaged, no hope left. So, which one should it be?

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Its not even reaching 4.2ghz. 4.1ghz only with reset bios @180w-190w, tdp. Testing with custom settings like before irrespective of os version, p95 version, rpcs3 gives 3.8ghz boost. Tested already, as said before. Only thing left is rollback bios. Or consider cpu damaged, no hope left. So, which one should it be?

The issue occurred after a bios flash? Well I'd roll that back. But it won't change the firmware installed, so I'm not sure it'll make a difference.