Qualcomm Wins Partial Victory in Arm Licensing Dispute, Retrial Possible

[AleksandarK]

A Delaware jury has delivered a mixed verdict in the high-stakes licensing dispute between Qualcomm and Arm, with Qualcomm securing a significant but incomplete victory. The jury unanimously found that Qualcomm's use of Oryon cores in its Snapdragon X processors for client PCs did not violate its licensing agreements with Arm. The case centered on Qualcomm's $1.4 billion acquisition of Nuvia in 2021 and subsequent use of Nuvia's processor designs. Arm had alleged that Nuvia's licensing terms couldn't transfer automatically to Qualcomm and demanded renegotiation of the agreements. When Qualcomm proceeded with development, Arm insisted the designs be destroyed. During the trial, Gerard Williams III, the lead developer of Oryon cores and former Apple engineer, testified that the final design contained less than 1% of Arm technology.

This testimony supported Qualcomm's position that its existing architecture license covered products designed by its subsidiaries. While Qualcomm celebrated the verdict allowing continued development of its Snapdragon X processors, the jury deadlocked whether Nuvia violated its original agreement with Arm, specifically about permitting server processor development. This impasse has prompted Arm to announce its intention to seek a retrial on this unresolved count. "We are disappointed that the jury was unable to reach consensus across the claims," Arm stated, wanting to protect its intellectual property and ecosystem. Meanwhile, Qualcomm expressed satisfaction with the decision, stating the verdict "vindicated Qualcomm's right to innovate." The stakes remain high for both companies. Qualcomm relies on its Oryon cores to compete in the PC market, where it currently holds a 0.8% share of Q3 2024 shipments, while Arm derives approximately $300 million annually from Qualcomm, representing 10% of its revenue.



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[Chaitanya]

Neither of these 2 are clean but still that ruling means ARM will try something sneaky in future.

 

[piloponth]

Next time the ARM will be more carefull with its licenses. Explicitly stating that it is not transfereable to the buyer of the license client.

 

[kondamin]

Next time the ARM will be more carefull with its licenses. Explicitly stating that it is not transfereable to the buyer of the license client.

This and their recent price changes should be enough to deter anyone from starting a new architecture based on arm

 

[Neo_Morpheus]

Next time the ARM will be more carefull with its licenses. Explicitly stating that it is not transfereable to the buyer of the license client.

Cant read your post, had to copy and paste in notepad to see it.

Anyways, my understanding is that the Nuvia contract already stated that it was not transferrable so I find this ruling weird.

I honestly dont understand how people are giving poor and defenseless Qualcomm a pass when they have shown over and over how dirty they are and how they have no issues in abusing their partners.

Just search for all the crap they have pulled with their modems even after being under FRAND rules.

I personally hope that Arm finds a way to remove all licenses from Qualcomm.

This and their recent price changes should be enough to deter anyone from starting a new architecture based on arm

Do you realize how much money others are making thanks to Arm’s work?

 

[silentbogo]

This is a weird one. You have Qualcomm - one of the biggest ARM clients, who paid for their license and, at least according to their press releases, had a right to transfer IP between their subsidiaries. On the other - Nuvia, who also paid ARM for their licenses. So, from the very beginning it looks like ARM is trying to double-dip by making Qualcomm re-evaluate their contracts and pay more for what Nuvia and Qualcomm has already paid. This weeks conclusion confirms that Qualcomm's designs based on Nuvia did not violate either license agreement, but for some reason the case still ended in mistrial with possibility of further litigation...

Cant read your post, had to copy and paste in notepad to see it.

It's sneaky

Do you realize how much money others are making thanks to Arm’s work?

Also all of these are long-term projects, which require stability. Companies open and close, or get absorbed by larger companies all the time. The only thing that does not change, is that ARM gets its licensing fees either way. The only thing that changed, is that now ARM is a publicly-traded company, so their priorities are now with their shareholders. So, in the nearest future I expect ARM-based chips to become wa-a-a-a-ay more expensive.

 

[kondamin]

Do you realize how much money others are making thanks to Arm’s work?

I also know that the money demanded by arm exploded last year to something those other companies weren't accounting for.
And that forcing a company to destroy an architecture isn't in the interest of the public good either.

Qualcomm is a known bad actor that much is true, but screwing them over for something they didn't do just because they did some something else wrong or because you don't like them isn't the way either.

 

[Neo_Morpheus]

at least according to their press releases, had a right to transfer IP between their subsidiaries

thats Qualcomm lying.

Nuvia, who also paid ARM for their licenses.

As they should.

So, from the very beginning it looks like ARM is trying to double-dip

But that is wrong.
Arm (and quick Google searches) confirmed that the licenses are not transferable and they even had that in writing on Nuvias case.

There are other details, their licensees cover different architectures, which I think are also part of the problem, One of them had Armv8 and the other had V9. But supposedly, those are also non transferable.

Which is another thing that Qualcomm wanted to bypass.

It's sneaky

Must be a ninja!

So, in the nearest future I expect ARM-based chips to become wa-a-a-a-ay more expensive.

I dont know those details, but I do know that Arm is pretty much powering the whole planet, yet their revenues are as follow:

"In its 2024 fiscal year, Arm Holdings recorded revenues of 3.2 billion U.S. dollars, of which 1.8 billion U.S. dollars was generated through royalties. A further 1.4 billion U.S. dollars in revenue came through non-royalty revenue, which includes technology licensing revenues and those from customer support services."

From this link

I also know that the money demanded by arm exploded last year to something those other companies weren't accounting for.

See above.

And that forcing a company to destroy an architecture isn't in the interest of the public good either.

Semi agree, but if this was somehow stated in their contract and it was breached, then what can they do?

Qualcomm is a known bad actor that much is true, but screwing them over for something they didn't do

Thats the thing, I can guarantee that Qualcomm did knew and do breached their contract/license.

I'm not sure how in this particular trial they got away with it, but I dont believe they are innocent.

Thats going by bits and pieces all around, like the non transferable clause.

Talking about non transferable licenses, which funny enough, its rumored to exists between AMD and Intel, which states that the X86/X64 license cannot be transferred and it was the main reason why nobody bought AMD when Intel almost killed them via their illegal tactics and why it wont be that easy for anyone else to buy Intel now.

Maybe is my bias against Qualcomm thanks to all the dirty crap they have pulled all these years and perhaps not knowing everything on their agreements, but as said, I really doubt that Qualcomm is acting in good faith.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Next time the ARM will be more carefull with its licenses. Explicitly stating that it is not transfereable to the buyer of the license client.

That will not work as it's not legal in contract law either here or in the UK.

Anyways, my understanding is that the Nuvia contract already stated that it was not transferrable so I find this ruling weird.

What you failed to understand is that Qualcomm's contracts DID allow for it as Nuvia became a subsidiary. So even if the Nuvia contract did not allow transfer, Qualcomm's contract did allow for it and as Qualcomm became the parent company, their contract became the contract of venue and control. Nuvia's contracts became effectively null & void upon acquisition. This is what ARM failed to understand as well and is why they lost. The jury did exactly what they were supposed to do and in exactly the correct way, including the unresolved count. They correctly set that one aside for later consideration.

 

[remixedcat]

This is a weird one. You have Qualcomm - one of the biggest ARM clients, who paid for their license and, at least according to their press releases, had a right to transfer IP between their subsidiaries. On the other - Nuvia, who also paid ARM for their licenses. So, from the very beginning it looks like ARM is trying to double-dip by making Qualcomm re-evaluate their contracts and pay more for what Nuvia and Qualcomm has already paid. This weeks conclusion confirms that Qualcomm's designs based on Nuvia did not violate either license agreement, but for some reason the case still ended in mistrial with possibility of further litigation...


It's sneaky

Also all of these are long-term projects, which require stability. Companies open and close, or get absorbed by larger companies all the time. The only thing that does not change, is that ARM gets its licensing fees either way. The only thing that changed, is that now ARM is a publicly-traded company, so their priorities are now with their shareholders. So, in the nearest future I expect ARM-based chips to become wa-a-a-a-ay more expensive.

ARM being greedy that's what

 

[lexluthermiester]

ARM being greedy that's what

Yeah, there's some of that too.

 

[Neo_Morpheus]

That will not work as it's not legal in contract law either here or in the UK.


What you failed to understand is that Qualcomm's contracts DID allow for it as Nuvia became a subsidiary. So even if the Nuvia contract did not allow transfer, Qualcomm's contract did allow for it and as Qualcomm became the parent company, their contract became the contract of venue and control. Nuvia's contracts became effectively null & void upon acquisition. This is what ARM failed to understand as well and is why they lost. The jury did exactly what they were supposed to do and in exactly the correct way, including the unresolved count. They correctly set that one aside for later consideration.

Hmm, if thats the case, its really strange that Arm didn’t prepare themselves for such scenarios, especially knowing how dirty Qualcomm is.

But assuming this chapter is closed, I will be very surprised if the next contract is not changed accordingly.