ASUS Prime z790-A - What's the latest thinking on BIOS updates after Intel CPU issues?

[SonicMojo]

Been rocking this board with a i5-13600K with BIOS 1601 since Feb 2024. Nary an issue to report - except....

Yesterday. Machine decided to throw a CLOCK_WATCHDOG out of the blue.

Now I am very aware - this specific BSOD message has many causes, myths around it and supposed reasons - none of them really solid and none definitive.

In this specific case - it appears to have something do with a screensaver I had running.

I ran a battery of tests using Intel XTU, their Processor testing tool etc - and everything came back as PASS.

Then I started thinking about the Intel CPU issues from Summer 2024 - and maybe figured it's time to bump this board up to use the new microcode changes that ASUS has implemented within their latest BIOs issued in the last 3-6 months

Currently - the only "tweak" that I am running on this board is running the memory using the XMP1 profile. Everything else (as far as I can tell) is using the ASUS "Optimized Defaults" which I have been reading - might be contributing to this Intel issue by default - since ASUS's idea of optimized - seems to be very aggressive when compared to Intel's "optimized defaults".

Can anyone confirm the correct sequence for success with this update? Is it still:

1. Set board to Optimized Defaults
2. Reboot
3. In EZ Flash - pick new BIOS file
4. Apply BIOS file
5. Hope the machine comes back up
6. And...will the "new" optimized defaults be Intel's recommended settings OR still what ASUS wants?
7. Can (should) I tweak mildly? (like using XMP1) or is the new mantra after this Intel debacle to leave everything alone?

This specific machine is a digital audio workstation where I prize stability over performance so if I need to NOT run the RAM using an XMP profile for example - I am think that is just fine.

Just wondering what others are doing once they get their board to a BIOS which supposedly puts all this Intel crap in the rearview mirror.

Cheers

Sonic

 

[Bill_Bright]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If the system has been working fine for nearly a year, there is nothing to suggest the current firmware is flawed, or that it would suddenly go bad.

I typically update the BIOS on brand new builds. After that, I don't unless the new firmware adds support for new hardware I am upgrading to that came out after the board left the factory (most common reason for new BIOS versions), or the BIOS update addresses a problem I am having (rare) or the BIOS update addresses a security issue (even more rare).

So my advice is to go out to your motherboard's webpage and read the change logs to any firmware updates ASUS has posted and IF and only IF they address your scenario, then I would update. I never update the BIOS (or HW drivers) just because a new version is out there - except, again, with brand new builds. This is especially true if the hardware has been working fine for months.

 

[pressing on]

With ASUS motherboards the best approach now is probably to install drivers in Windows first in this order (versions match your motherboard)

1. Chipset driver v10.1.19913.8607
2. Management Engine Interface v2428.6.2.0
3. Serial IO Software v30.100.2417.30
then
4. Update the BIOS which will also update the ME firmware and LED (RGB) firmware.
5. Reboot and select optimized BIOS defaults.

There are a couple of BIOS settings that may need looking at.

Check that Advanced Mode->Advanced->Boot->Secure Boot->OS Type- is set to Windows UEFI Mode if this is your normal setting. Also if you don't use Armoury Crate and don't want the prompt in Windows to download the AC app you can set Advanced Mode->Tool->ASUS Armoury Crate->Download and Install ARMOURY CRATE app to Disabled.

XMP is disabled by default. I think the BIOS defaults to Intel Default Settings and ASUS is now observing the standard settings for PL1 and PL2 or something close to it.

The main reason for doing all this is of course to update to the latest microcode revision for your CPU with the supporting drivers and ME revisions. If your aim is stability this is certainly a better option than running an earlier BIOS.

 

[SonicMojo]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If the system has been working fine for nearly a year, there is nothing to suggest the current firmware is flawed, or that it would suddenly go bad.

I typically update the BIOS on brand new builds. After that, I don't unless the new firmware adds support for new hardware I am upgrading to that came out after the board left the factory (most common reason for new BIOS versions), or the BIOS update addresses a problem I am having (rare) or the BIOS update addresses a security issue (even more rare).

So my advice is to go out to your motherboard's webpage and read the change logs to any firmware updates ASUS has posted and IF and only IF they address your scenario, then I would update. I never update the BIOS (or HW drivers) just because a new version is out there - except, again, with brand new builds. This is especially true if the hardware has been working fine for months.

Bill

My thinking exactly. However IN this case - I am running a CPU that has been identified as "possibly" in jeopardy:

Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Instability Root Cause Update - Intel Community

And I am about 5 BIOS versions behind - the last three of which - do offer the microcode fixes that would put my CPU (and my mind) at ease.

AND that BSOD (which is maybe my third in ten years) has a lot of ominous rhetoric specifically pertaining to "core failures" etc - that play right into what this Intel crap is all about.

That said - you are bang on. Maybe there is nothing wrong here at all. Or maybe there is. However - I find it a tad strange that I run this board untouched for a whole year - and then all of a sudden - out of the blue - I get a BSOD of all things with a error condition that "could" indicate an issue with one of my cores. You can see why this makes me a bit nervous.

S

 

[Bill_Bright]

However IN this case - I am running a CPU that has been identified as "possibly" in jeopardy:

Doesn't change my reply. If the computer has been working fine for nearly a year, there is no reason the BIOS that has been supporting that CPU is not still doing so.

Still, if you did your homework and newer BIOS versions do address concerns with your current CPU, then go for it. Peace of mind matters too.

But while extremely rare, be aware that updating the BIOS firmware is still risky. Backup any data you don't want to lose. And for the record, I NEVER update firmware without putting the computer on a good UPS with AVR first. I learned the hard way a long time ago that a power failure during a firmware update can brick a motherboard. In my case, it was a co-worker tripping over the power cord, but I also live in Tornado Alley so I don't want to temp Mother Nature either.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Been rocking this board with a i5-13600K with BIOS 1601 since Feb 2024. Nary an issue to report - except....

Yesterday. Machine decided to throw a CLOCK_WATCHDOG out of the blue.


Cheers

Sonic

This typically is from an under-volt issue which would pertain to CPU core AND OR the cache, which on auto defaults to the cpu v-core unless you have altered only the cache voltage setting manually. Some boards don't have cache voltage adjustment and only uses v-core.

That is the degradation issue, users would increase v-core or LLC to compensate, but once damage is done, nothing will help except RMA the cpu.

So if the bios and firmware update do not resolve the issue, I reccomend to RMA the processor.

Update the bios and firmware as suggested above. There is very little risk. like pretty muc ZERO risk at all. Asus makes recovery easy if there where to be a bad flash. Just use the bios flashback feature that comes with the board. The back in the day low end boards, you just use the CD that comes with the board and boot from that disk and select bios recovery. I've done this on Asus AM3 motherboard that had a bad flash. Was super easy. All boards that take a bad flash are recoverable in some way. So this should not be a concern at all to you.

GL!

 

[dirtyferret]

Yesterday. Machine decided to throw a CLOCK_WATCHDOG out of the blue.

i thought those were typically video driver issues

In this specific case - it appears to have something do with a screensaver I had running.

could be a video driver error

Then I started thinking about the Intel CPU issues from Summer 2024 - and maybe figured it's time to bump this board up to use the new microcode changes that ASUS has implemented within their latest BIOs issued in the last 3-6 months

didn't that have to do with i7 and i9 from 13th and 14th gen?

regardless Asus has a how to video for BIOS updates

[Motherboard/Desktop] ASUS EZ Flash 3 - Introduction | Official Support | ASUS Global

 

[wNotyarD]

didn't that have to do with i7 and i9 from 13th and 14th gen?

The 13600K and 14600K are Raptors as well (lower 13th and 14th i5's are technically Alders). I think issues don't show on them as much due to the lower core count, but they should be susceptible to the degradation plague like the bigger siblings.

 

[SonicMojo]

This typically is from an under-volt issue which would pertain to CPU core AND OR the cache, which on auto defaults to the cpu v-core unless you have altered only the cache voltage setting manually. Some boards don't have cache voltage adjustment and only uses v-core.

That is the degradation issue, users would increase v-core or LLC to compensate, but once damage is done, nothing will help except RMA the cpu.

My concern exactly. I am thinking it will be VERY rare for the CPU to just die.

But I have studied this a lot and one trend seems to be - odd occurrence here. Then smooth sailing for a few weeks. Then another occurrence there. The more smooth sailing etc.

All the while - possible degradation could be setting in. And yes - am aware of the RMA and the extendo warranty on these specific chips. But I hoping to not have to go there.

Will get the BIOS current and then update this thread if anything else odd goes down. Will also update it if nothing happens for say a month.

Thanks for the discussion - much appreciated as always.

S

 

[ShrimpBrime]

My concern exactly. I am thinking it will be VERY rare for the CPU to just die.

But I have studied this a lot and one trend seems to be - odd occurrence here. Then smooth sailing for a few weeks. Then another occurrence there. The more smooth sailing etc.

All the while - possible degradation could be setting in. And yes - am aware of the RMA and the extendo warranty on these specific chips. But I hoping to not have to go there.

Will get the BIOS current and then update this thread if anything else odd goes down. Will also update it if nothing happens for say a month.

Thanks for the discussion - much appreciated as always.

S

Yes, thank you for coming in with updates when you can!!

Don't forget you can update management engine software as well to match the firmware.
You can find the DL here. https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...ne-drivers-for-windows-10-and-windows-11.html

 

[Bill_Bright]

Please understand there are some who feel that they have such vast knowledge and are so experienced that if they have not seen a problem, the problem does not exist. As I noted above, it is "extremely rare" but there are risks involved in updating a BIOS. It is not 100% foolproof or without risk of failure. And neither are recovery programs, btw.

Having a robust backup plan in place (as in multiple backups, preferably with at least one kept off-site) should be a concern for everyone who values their personal data - just in case something goes wrong, no matter how remote that may be. It is just another type of insurance. An insurance plan to invest in, but hope we never need.

 

[SonicMojo]

Please understand there are some who feel that they have such vast knowledge and are so experienced that if they have not seen a problem, the problem does not exist. As I noted above, it is "extremely rare" but there are risks involved in updating a BIOS. It is not 100% foolproof or without risk of failure. And neither are recovery programs, btw.

Having a robust backup plan in place (as in multiple backups, preferably with at least one kept off-site) should be a concern for everyone who values their personal data - just in case something goes wrong, no matter how remote that may be. It is just another type of insurance. An insurance plan to invest in, but hope we never need.

Bill

Understood - but in 25+ years of personal computing - I have never seen, know of (or had) a BIOS update go south.

I am well prepared - system drives imaged, all data backed up (3-2-1 protocol in place here for years) etc.

Not worried whatsoever about the BIOS update itself. More worried about what might be happening to my CPU.

S

 

[Bill_Bright]

in 25+ years of personal computing

Well, I won't hold your obvious youth and lack of experience against you!

Like I said, I have only had it happen twice, long ago.

My point was just that it could happen - even if only a remote possibility - and therefore, to make sure you have a good backup of your data - which is a wise precaution at all times, not just when updating the BIOS.

Good luck.

 

[wheresmycar]

Update your BIOS.

The VMIN issue amongst other system stability issues had been dealt with long after Feb 2024 with fresh microcode updates patched through. Intel themselves recommend BIOS updates, including systems the update for 13th and 14th Gen CPUs. Even though some 13th/14th Gen chips are unaffected, Intel still recommends all users to update.