AMD Radeon RX 9070 XT & RX 9070 Custom Models In Stock at European Stores

[Zach_01]

Exactly, it looks flat. Very much like turning HDR off.

Hey I am convinced about RT. Said too many times I like it.
The RT ON vs PT is still not worth it... yet, even if it adds more to the subject.

I pretty much enjoyed CP2077 with RT ultra no PT.

Again to me these things are based on psychology.
We have progressed in graphics but now all of a sudden we cant live without super real lighting and simple real lighting is not enough (PT vs RT) just because someone show it to us and wants to sell AI hardware.
I'll have it at a reasonable price with minimum or no FG if possible.

Not arguing about FSR/DLSS just FG.

Just personal taste.

 

[AVATARAT]

It's just impossible.

That's been impossible since the RT era started

Look at the bottles on the shelf, without RT they all look like copies, they are just flat, no differentiation.

No, they look bad because someone wants a player to say - oh, what an amazing difference - but not because Raster can't be made better. And that's how marketing works

 

[Hecate91]

Open world games with dynamic daytime and weather effects have existed long before RT was invented.

Its baffling to me how people think dynamic lighting in games didn't exist until RT was added, and IMO a game doesn't need RT to look good.
I can't tell much a of a difference from those screen shots, besides the RT image is a bit shinier with some extra lighting, and PT has a bit more lighting although probably not worth the performance hit. Most AAA games studios are using RT as a lazy approach to add lighting.

Does that matter?

I think it only matters if you care about the feature, most people don't and if the stats say they do I would have to guess most people just leave default settings on, some of the latest titles force RT on by default.

 

[AusWolf]

And they are all flat in the open world non scripted scenes.

What do you mean flat? Have you played TES4: Oblivion, for example? My jaw dropped looking at its weather effects back in 2006 (I think it was 2006).

That's like asking me if HDR matters. Of course.

I didn't ask "does it look nice". I asked "does it matter" as in "is it such a big difference that it makes or breaks a game".

 

[Zach_01]

I didn't ask "does it look nice". I asked "does it matter" as in "is it such a big difference that makes or breaks a game".

IMHO
RT: maybe when lighting, shadows and reflections are obviously better.
PT: not yet, far from calling a game broken with out it.

 

[JustBenching]

What do you mean flat? Have you played TES4: Oblivion, for example? My jaw dropped looking at its weather effects back in 2006 (I think it was 2006).

By flat I mean there isn't much differentiation between objects in a scene (non scripted scene). Because there can't be, nobody is crazy enough to finetune lighting in every possible scene in an open world game. I gave you an example above, the bottles and panam's face looks flat - it's the exact same from top to bottom without RT.

I didn't ask "does it look nice". I asked "does it matter" as in "is it such a big difference that it makes or breaks a game".

Well better is better is better. If there was no performance penalty for example, we wouldn't even be arguing here right, everybody would be using it. We can argue the same about textures, does ultra to high make such a difference? No, it makes even less of a difference. Yet people are going apeshit about 4070's vram

 

[Zach_01]

If there was no performance penalty for example, we wouldn't even be arguing here right, everybody would be using it.

Of course not. The argument exists only for the perf penalty and its legit. Again for me about PT.

 

[JustBenching]

Of course not. The argument exists only for the perf penalty and its legit. Again for me about PT.

Well not really, if you read the rest of the comments people are saying RT off looks betters. Which is wild

 

[Zach_01]

Well not really, if you read the rest of the comments people are saying RT off looks betters. Which is wild

Each to his own.

But lets see what 9070s can do first as the topic is about stock of 9070s in EU...
I'm betting some AIB variants to be north of 400W. Lets see how horribly efficient can RDNA4 be on those levels.
I keep my hopes low, as history taught us but you never now... Its a brand new architecture.

 

[AusWolf]

By flat I mean there isn't much differentiation between objects in a scene (non scripted scene). Because there can't be, nobody is crazy enough to finetune lighting in every possible scene in an open world game. I gave you an example above, the bottles and panam's face looks flat - it's the exact same from top to bottom without RT.

Call me blind, but I just had another look at your Cyberpunk screenshots, and I really don't know what you mean.

Well better is better is better. If there was no performance penalty for example, we wouldn't even be arguing here right, everybody would be using it.

But there is a performance penalty, and a massive one, that's why we're discussing it.

We can argue the same about textures, does ultra to high make such a difference? No, it makes even less of a difference. Yet people are going apeshit about 4070's vram

Well, I'm actually in the "textures to the max forever" camp (they matter a lot more than lights do, imo), but ultra to high is probably not a difference worth arguing about.

Well not really, if you read the rest of the comments people are saying RT off looks betters. Which is wild

Personally, I'm saying that RT looks different. Whether that means something better, or just different, is up to the game and how it uses it.

 

[remekra]

To conclude we should just stick with baked lighting, probes and don't progress at all.
I can understand that RT itself in some games and in almost all games at the beginning was just "shiny puddles" and that's all. But to claim that Path Tracing looks worse than raster in that image is just wild or manipulation or lying to yourself.

Truth is AMD was wrong to not focus more on RT since the beggining, since RDNA1 or 2. Doesn't matter that Turing was bad at RT, they still had the tech out and could iterate on it. AMD should have done the same with RDNA1. Then with RDNA2 which is in the consoles really improve it and keep up with nvidia. We would have a lot better implemenations of RT now thanks to it, since devs would use the tech on consoles as well. People would not have an argument that AMD is bad at RT and they could sell more GPUs and maybe RDNA4 would actually have a 9080/9090 instead of just 9070.

AMD knows this, that's why they focused on AI and RT in RDNA4, Sony knows this because they got the RDNA4 RT in PS5 Pro.

 

[Lauri]

Atleast it won't be a paper launch.

 

[AusWolf]

To conclude we should just stick with baked lighting, probes and don't progress at all.
I can understand that RT itself in some games and in almost all games at the beginning was just "shiny puddles" and that's all. But to claim that Path Tracing looks worse than raster in that image is just wild or manipulation or lying to yourself.

It's definitely not worse - but not necessarily better in every case. It's highly dependent on the game and its implementation of the tech.

Truth is AMD was wrong to not focus more on RT since the beggining, since RDNA1 or 2. Doesn't matter that Turing was bad at RT, they still had the tech out and could iterate on it. AMD should have done the same with RDNA1. Then with RDNA2 which is in the consoles really improve it and keep up with nvidia. We would have a lot better implemenations of RT now thanks to it, since devs would use the tech on consoles as well. People would not have an argument that AMD is bad at RT and they could sell more GPUs and maybe RDNA4 would actually have a 9080/9090 instead of just 9070.

AMD knows this, that's why they focused on AI and RT in RDNA4, Sony knows this because they got the RDNA4 RT in PS5 Pro.

That I agree with.

 

[DudeBeFishing]

I think that's not accurate. See below, RT off, RT on, PT on. Lots of differences between the 3.

Spoiler

View attachment 380326

View attachment 380327
View attachment 380328

I prefer the RT off because I can actually see the scene. The RT and PT needs to have less effect. Dark areas shouldn't turn pitch black. Even then, the ambient occlusion needs to be off. I haven't seen a game that does it right. It looks like dog hair piled in the corners, with dark outlines on every object. Weaker PT effects with ambient occlusion off will look perfect.

 

[wheresmycar]

I think that's not accurate. See below, RT off, RT on, PT on. Lots of differences between the 3.

Spoiler

View attachment 380326

View attachment 380327
View attachment 380328

PT looks good. The image itself doesn't do it justice.

 

[umeng2002]

Path tracing is ground breaking in games. Images online don't capture the improvement well enough. That said, if you don't use RT features, ups along and frame generation should be needed.

 

[King_Gedoorah]

9299Kr (Danish Kroner), thats $1,283. We get screwed here in Scandinavia

You mean we cry in Scandinavian...?

 

[dartuil]

these cards have to be in the 400-700 € or im out.

 

[Zach_01]

these cards have to be in the 400-700 € or im out.

I think 700€ would be too much and won’t stand a chance to gain market share.
600€ including taxes would be sensible.
AIB 5070s will likely start at 750-800€ considering that FE will cost ~660€ and you can’t have those outside of US.

 

[x4it3n]

For the sake of competition, let's hope it will be sold $500 or less and will be very similar to a 4080 SUPER performance wise!

 

[Zach_01]

For the sake of competition, let's hope it will be sold $500 or less and will be very similar to a 4080 SUPER performance wise!

That’s instantly 600€ in most parts of Europe including taxes/import fees.

 

[DaemonForce]

And I know it wouldn't stand a chance in the US above $600.
Why would anyone buy a 9070 series at $600+ if the previous gen line it replaces (7800XT/7900GRE) falls sub-500?
Ignore the fact the GRE has been out of stock for a month and the cheaper 7800XT stock is already full of cheap refurbs.
Or how about something more enthusiast and insane like the 7900XT falling sub-650? It'll fall some more once this is out.
I focus on the 7800/7900 XT units because they are good but they're also the out that we're given if the launch gets any weirder.

I'm not jumping team green to pick up their lowest tier overpriced AI scambait either.
The 5070 is a catastrophic loser for anyone already on a card that's semi-modern, worse if 4070.
The idea of paying $500 700+ for 12GB once that junk drops and gets scalped to hell is enough to piss anyone off.
I already know the behavior is not going to be desirable for my hardware ecosystem the moment I leave Windows anyway.
People need to stop buying expensive headaches.

 

[JustBenching]

And I know it wouldn't stand a chance in the US above $600.
Why would anyone buy a 9070 series at $600+ if the previous gen line it replaces (7800XT/7900GRE) falls sub-500?

Power draw (probably, assuming the 9070 is better at that) and FSR4. And the increased RT

 

[Zach_01]

And I know it wouldn't stand a chance in the US above $600.
Why would anyone buy a 9070 series at $600+ if the previous gen line it replaces (7800XT/7900GRE) falls sub-500?
Ignore the fact the GRE has been out of stock for a month and the cheaper 7800XT stock is already full of cheap refurbs.
Or how about something more enthusiast and insane like the 7900XT falling sub-650? It'll fall some more once this is out.
I focus on the 7800/7900 XT units because they are good but they're also the out that we're given if the launch gets any weirder.

I'm not jumping team green to pick up their lowest tier overpriced AI scambait either.
The 5070 is a catastrophic loser for anyone already on a card that's semi-modern, worse if 4070.
The idea of paying $500 700+ for 12GB once that junk drops and gets scalped to hell is enough to piss anyone off.
I already know the behavior is not going to be desirable for my hardware ecosystem the moment I leave Windows anyway.
People need to stop buying expensive headaches.

Here prices are moving very slowly. 7900XTs are starting from 710€ with some variants still at 800~900€.
XTXs from 950€ up to 1100€
GREs are some leftovers with absurd prices for whatever reason... 650~800€.
7800XTs are starting from 500€ up to... 800€ (those must be hunting for suckers...)

9070XT at ~600€ with +25~30% raster from 7800XT but around double RT and FSR4 could move something, especially from users on RX5000/6000 with 8/12GB VRAM.

Power draw (probably, assuming the 9070 is better at that) and FSR4. And the increased RT

Probably yes to FSR4/RT but for power I'm not very confident
Both 7800XT/7900GRE are around 260W and 9070XT could end up at 300+W for reference and low power AIBs with some (OCed) even 400+W with gaming boost (bursting) up to 3.5+GHz
Saying 3.5GHz with some confidence because XTXs are already burst up to 3.2-3.3GHz. I have mine capped at 3.0GHz.

 

[3valatzy]

I'm not jumping team green to pick up their lowest tier overpriced AI scambait either.
The 5070 is a catastrophic loser for anyone already on a card that's semi-modern, worse if 4070.
The idea of paying $500 700+ for 12GB once that junk drops and gets scalped to hell is enough to piss anyone off.

It is a crime, because of how cheap the memory modules in fact are.
1GB costs only 2.3$, 8GB cost 18$.