AMD Claims Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 Outperforms Intel Core Ultra 7 258V by 75% in Gaming

[Zazigalka]

if XESS is such a hog the Intel users could use FSR2/3 as well.

it's not, amd is using FG on for their results, but not for intel.
they've reached peak marketing BS

 

[PaddieMayne]

Come on AMD! Why the Smoke and Mirrors, I hate it when someone Pisses on my back and tells me it's raining.

 

[londiste]

So, looking at the graphs the performance is about even?
Honest question, are Ryzen 9 and Core 7 in the same segment?

And for god's sake, what is it with the naming again, on both sides.

 

[JustBenching]

Realistically speaking, what would it take for a ps5 pro equivalent iGPU (with a more modern CPU of course) to be available on PC's? It's not the fastest card around but it's a proper replacement for entry level GPUs (4060 etc.).

 

[londiste]

Realistically speaking, what would it take for a ps5 pro equivalent iGPU (with a more modern CPU of course) to be available on PC's? It's not the fastest card around but it's a proper replacement for entry level GPUs (4060 etc.).

AMD or Intel wanting to bring that to market?
PS5 Pro GPU is roughly equivalent to 7700XT. 7700XT is a $450 GPU that uses 200+ watts. These are the two more important obstacles - power maybe not so much these days where both have 200+W normal CPUs anyway. But they would need to both recoup the significantly higher manufacturing cost as well as try and not cannibalize the dGPU sales. Plus, there is the topic of RAM/VRAM that would need a different solution than CPUs today.

 

[JustBenching]

AMD or Intel wanting to bring that to market?
PS5 Pro GPU is roughly equivalent to 7700XT. 7700XT is a $450 GPU that uses 200+ watts. These are the two more important obstacles - power maybe not so much these days where both have 200+W normal CPUs anyway. But they would need to both recoup the significantly higher manufacturing cost as well as try and not cannibalize the dGPU sales. Plus, there is the topic of RAM/VRAM that would need a different solution than CPUs today.

I totally get your point but amd isn't doing that great in the dgpu market anyways. Plus they don't have to target the 7700xt, they can target the 7600 type of cards.

 

[londiste]

I totally get your point but amd isn't doing that great in the dgpu market anyways. Plus they don't have to target the 7700xt, they can target the 7600 type of cards.

I understated the RAM/VRAM problem in my previous post. This is also a strong reason for where the iGPU performance ends up at. No sense to give iGPU a lot of compute power if it gets bottlenecked by memory bandwidth anyway.

To get some idea of numbers:
- PS5 Pro has 448 GB/s of memory bandwidth.
- The anemic 7600/7600XT have 288 GB/s of memory bandwidth.
- DDR5-8000 has 64GB/s of memory bandwidth per module - dual-channel DDR-8000 configuration gets 128GB/s.

Of course, this is a problem that can be solved but needs going for some different memory configuration - meaning this would not be something you can just drop into standard AM5 or LGA1851. It takes more memory channels - think 4-8 DDR5 modules required - or something similar to soldered memory with wide bus that consoles have.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Depends on which CPU. Standard desktop Intel / AMD processors can only drive DDR modules, while the CPU's in recent Playstations and XBoxes are designed to work with GDDR instead. So it's a question of CPU design.
To my knowledge, there's little to no *technical* reason that AMD couldn't make a PS/Xbox-style powerful APU for desktops.

It all comes down to memory controllers.

It's not that they *couldnt* make one for mobile/desktop use, but rather, GDDR memory has two negative aspects. The first is it is more power hungry then standard DDR, and second it runs at significantly higher latency. This isnt an issue for graphics, but for regular system use that latency becomes a problem, and the power use becomes a major issue with mobile.

Strix halo fixes this by going to a 256 bit bus, allowing GDDR style bandwidth out of LPDDR memory. The obvious issue is this breaks compatibility with desktop sockets.

I understated the RAM/VRAM problem in my previous post. This is also a strong reason for where the iGPU performance ends up at. No sense to give iGPU a lot of compute power if it gets bottlenecked by memory bandwidth anyway.

To get some idea of numbers:
- PS5 Pro has 448 GB/s of memory bandwidth.
- The anemic 7600/7600XT have 288 GB/s of memory bandwidth.
- DDR5-8000 has 64GB/s of memory bandwidth per module - dual-channel DDR-8000 configuration gets 128GB/s.

Of course, this is a problem that can be solved but needs going for some different memory configuration - meaning this would not be something you can just drop into standard AM5 or LGA1851. It takes more memory channels - think 4-8 DDR5 modules required - or something similar to soldered memory with wide bus that consoles have.

It would be nice if we could get 256 bit memory bus compatibility on AM6. AMD was playing with the idea way back with richland, and intel did it with LGA 1366.

Wider busses fix a lot of issues with performance scaling and signal integrity issues with higher speeds. LGA 1366 boards could tangle with early DDR4 boards in memory bandwidth.

 

[Vya Domus]

This will only hurt them

It's not hurting Nvidia with their 90%+ market share or whatever they have and they've been doing this for years, they started it. If AMD wont do the same they wont stay in the game it's that simple.

Being honest doesn't pay when everyone else isn't.

Besides all the charts show the native performance as well, they're not hiding anything.

 

[Darc Requiem]

It's not hurting Nvidia with their 90%+ market share or whatever they have and they've been doing this for years, they started it. If AMD wont do the same they wont stay in the game it's that simple.

Being honest doesn't pay when everyone else isn't.

Besides all the charts show the native performance as well, they're not hiding anything.

As much as I hate it, you are right.

 

[londiste]

It would be nice if we could get 256 bit memory bus compatibility on AM6. AMD was playing with the idea way back with richland, and intel did it with LGA 1366.
Wider busses fix a lot of issues with performance scaling and signal integrity issues with higher speeds. LGA 1366 boards could tangle with early DDR4 boards in memory bandwidth.

HEDT has/had quad-channel memory or more. Currently Threadrippers have quad-channel and (I guess depending on chipset) octa-channel support. The platform costs are rather restrictive though. LGA 1366 had triple channel and following LGA 2011 and LGA 2066 had quad-channel support. Same thing about platform costs. Plus - you do need more memory modules.

 

[HOkay]

It's not hurting Nvidia with their 90%+ market share or whatever they have and they've been doing this for years, they started it. If AMD wont do the same they wont stay in the game it's that simple.

Being honest doesn't pay when everyone else isn't.

Besides all the charts show the native performance as well, they're not hiding anything.

Except the first chart where it's completely hidden! If it was just the two charts that clearly show native performance comparison & then FSR/AFMF on top, that'd be fine, I've no problem with those. But that first chart in isolation should frankly be considered false advertising & should be punished in some way.

 

[Zazigalka]

Besides all the charts show the native performance as well, they're not hiding anything.

They are hiding actual numbers

 

[LittleBro]

This comparison is absolutely unfair. This is horrible approach of AMD's marketing team. This is literally such comparison what Nvidia used to make.

Shame on you, AMD.

Bring the Strix Halo already!

 

[3valatzy]

The Radeon 890M is really good.

It is up to 100%-150% faster than the older 680M and 780M.

 

[HeadRusch1]

Depends on which CPU. Standard desktop Intel / AMD processors can only drive DDR modules, while the CPU's in recent Playstations and XBoxes are designed to work with GDDR instead. So it's a question of CPU design.
To my knowledge, there's little to no *technical* reason that AMD couldn't make a PS/Xbox-style powerful APU for desktops.

Technically, the 680m is on par with an Xbox/PS4 at 1080p. The 780m is slightly better, but you can turn on frame-gen with those for even a few more "virtual FPS". Just remember we are talking about consoles that only aimed for locked-30fps at around 1080p. If you play with a joypad and mostly do single player stuff, this is 'fine', particularly if you grew up remembering the sub-20fps days of a PS1 game. And I'm talking about more recent AAA gaming, everything else will usually run closer or at 60fps if its older...even if they were AAA in their day. On the downside, anything UE5 basically won't run acceptably at all, probably not even on these newest chpis, but that's a UE5 problem.

The biggest problem we have with these chips....is unfortunately their price. At 800+ buying a mini pc with these is beyond stupid, unless you absolutely have to have a 75w gaming device that weighs less than a pound or two. You live in a Van and run on Battery Power? Makes total sense. Are you in NASA and need to get your games up to the International Space Station under a weight and power-draw limit? Makes total sense. EVeryone else....? Ehhhhhh...

But when these hit $450 with 1TB of storage and 32g of ram, I'm all-in. I give it 2 years.

 

[HOkay]

Technically, the 680m is on par with an Xbox/PS4 at 1080p. The 780m is slightly better, but you can turn on frame-gen with those for even a few more "virtual FPS". Just remember we are talking about consoles that only aimed for locked-30fps at around 1080p. If you play with a joypad and mostly do single player stuff, this is 'fine', particularly if you grew up remembering the sub-20fps days of a PS1 game. And I'm talking about more recent AAA gaming, everything else will usually run closer or at 60fps if its older...even if they were AAA in their day. On the downside, anything UE5 basically won't run acceptably at all, probably not even on these newest chpis, but that's a UE5 problem.

The biggest problem we have with these chips....is unfortunately their price. At 800+ buying a mini pc with these is beyond stupid, unless you absolutely have to have a 75w gaming device that weighs less than a pound or two. You live in a Van and run on Battery Power? Makes total sense. Are you in NASA and need to get your games up to the International Space Station under a weight and power-draw limit? Makes total sense. EVeryone else....? Ehhhhhh...

But when these hit $450 with 1TB of storage and 32g of ram, I'm all-in. I give it 2 years.

Tbf, secondhand prices are in the $450 region for the current gen handhelds already. These things will depreciate pretty fast if the performance per watt keeps increasing & they keep releasing newer models.

 

[HeadRusch1]

Tbf, secondhand prices are in the $450 region for the current gen handhelds already. These things will depreciate pretty fast if the performance per watt keeps increasing & they keep releasing newer models.

Yep, I figure 2 years and the 370's are in the $500 range...handhelds are basically laptops with tiny screens and without keyboards but with built in 'controls', it's a cool time to be into PC gaming that isn't all about throwing $2000 at a game to get 20 more FPS with ray tracing (but with scaling turned on) to hit 60fps....or 120 or whatever people think they 'need' now.

 

[londiste]

Yep, I figure 2 years and the 370's are in the $500 range...handhelds are basically laptops with tiny screens and without keyboards but with built in 'controls', it's a cool time to be into PC gaming that isn't all about throwing $2000 at a game to get 20 more FPS with ray tracing (but with scaling turned on) to hit 60fps....or 120 or whatever people think they 'need' now.

PC gaming has always been about choice. Yes, the whole celebration and PCMR stuff and marketing revolves around high end but nothing stops you from running a game on low settings on a much much cheaper or older or efficient machine. If you reduce the resolution and even more so the screen size the hardware required goes down fast - which is where the current crop of handhelds triggered by Steam Deck - and inspired by Switch - comes in. And of course, you can do everything in between.

There are experiences to be had in terms if image quality, effects as well as resolution, frequency or screen size, if you are willing to pay quite a bit of money for it. These are desired, of course, but not mandatory or needed.

Tbf, secondhand prices are in the $450 region for the current gen handhelds already. These things will depreciate pretty fast if the performance per watt keeps increasing & they keep releasing newer models.

They do depreciate fast. But specifically performance per watt increases are already quite slow. And that part is not going to get better soon.