NVIDIA RTX owners only - your opinion on DLSS Image quality

[nguyen]

4K DLSS.Performance with Transformer model even looks cleaner in motion than 4K DLSS.Quality with CNN model

50% free performance upgrade for RTX owners

 

[Zazigalka]

nv app has recieved an update today, lets you globally override dlss model the latest, or keep the one that the application has.

 

[mrpaco]

nv app has recieved an update today, lets you globally override dlss model the latest, or keep the one that the application has.

but does it work when dlss 4 is not even on the drivers until 30?

I am trying and it doesn't let me do anything, nor a popup opens.

are you on the cuda drivers?

 

[Zazigalka]

but does it work when dlss 4 is not even on the drivers until 30?

I am trying and it doesn't let me do anything, nor a popup opens.

are you on the cuda drivers?

Yes, I have the beta driver installed

 

[Visible Noise]

Have you guys installed the 570 branch drivers, or is this all shipped with the game update?

 

[nguyen]

New 572.16 driver with the new Nvidia app version came out, man today is the day we can litterally download more visuals quality for our games

Tried DLSS4 in Indiana Jones and the Great Circle, all visual upgrades without downside

 

[wolf]

New 572.16 driver with the new Nvidia app version came out, man today is the day we can litterally download more visuals quality for our games

Tried DLSS4 in Indiana Jones and the Great Circle, all visual upgrades without downside

I'm, finding a LARGE performance boost with the new driver and transformer model.

Marvel Rivals

566.x

DLSS P 114
DLSS UQ 86
FSR P 125
FSR UQ 87

572.16

DLSS P 144 +26%
DLSS UQ 102 +17%

Holy crap. It went from slightly more costly than DLSS CNN, to even more performant with the increases in image quality... and this is the first Transformer DLL. Frikken wild.

 

[the54thvoid]

@wolf - do you want the OP changed? DLSS 2.0 seems a little out of date...

 

[wolf]

@wolf - do you want the OP changed? DLSS 2.0 seems a little out of date...

Yes please. Removing the 2.0 should do the trick. Thanks!

 

[TSiAhmat]

I'm, finding a LARGE performance boost with the new driver and transformer model.

Marvel Rivals

566.x

DLSS P 114
DLSS UQ 86
FSR P 125
FSR UQ 87

572.16

DLSS P 144 +26%
DLSS UQ 102 +17%

Holy crap. It went from slightly more costly than DLSS CNN, to even more performant with the increases in image quality... and this is the first Transformer DLL. Frikken wild.

wait what?

what is your native perfomance (frames) because UQ is Native with the dlss filter on top. (or am I missing something?)

 

[Zazigalka]

@wolf - do you want the OP changed? DLSS 2.0 seems a little out of date...

Its two dlss's out of date

 

[wolf]

wait what?

what is your native perfomance (frames) because UQ is Native with the dlss filter on top. (or am I missing something?)

Native/100% render scale no AA 73 FPS, same FPS with TAA at 100% render scale.

IIRC UQ mode isn't native, FSR has a Native AA setting in this game and UQ, so I can only assume UQ upscales from a resolution north of 2560x1440 but not native 4k.

 

[Chrispy_]

Some other things for owners to comment on if you feel so inclined.

• Even if there are IQ limitations, would you enable it anyway for the performance gain? if so which mode?
• Are you hopeful for ongoing adoption and support?
• Which is your preferred mode and for what native output resolution?
• Do you also use Image sharpening / adjust the negative LOD bias in conjunction with DLSS 2.0 to further improve results?
• If a game featured RTX and DLSS 2.0, would you use both, just one, neither?
• Would you like to see it adopted in more games that do not feature Ray Tracing purely for increased performance?

DLSS2 is worthless to me. It only looks good when the camera is static, and it still has trails and ghosting behind moving objects.
The TL;DR for me is that DLSS2 is just a smeary, blurry mess in motion that fails to provide the illusion of a higher resolution.

I use it on a 4K TV, often at balanced settings (2259x1270 base resolution) and if the increased HUD/UI quality isn't important to the experience I will often prefer to drop DLSS2 entirely and just run the game at 1080p instead, depending if the game's native AA options are any good or not.

As a rule of thumb, very few ray tracing implementations make enough of a visual upgrade to warrant enabling, and the quality loss from DLSS2 to compensate for the performance hit still results in a worse quality overall, and often still at lower framerates than without RT.

Cards used: 2060, 2060S, 2070S, 2080Ti, 3060, 3070, 3090, RTX 6000, 4060Ti 16GB, 4070, 4070S. (Cards in bold were personal purchases and used for >3 months)

Off-topic slightly, but I'm pleased to see that DLSS4 looks to be a huge improvement that solves most of the problem with blurring and smear when using the new transformer model. There's a separate thread for that via the front page.

Replying with updated title & OP below

 

[Macro Device]

UQ is essentially 77%, or 2957x1663 in the case of 2160p.

 

[TSiAhmat]

UQ is essentially 77%, or 2957x1663 in the case of 2160p.

oh so a small bump in resolution, wasn't there a possibility to use the DLSS as Filter with out reducing the resolution at all? (I think I saw that option in Monster Hunter Wild open demo)

 

[Macro Device]

wasn't there a possibility to use the DLSS as Filter with out reducing the resolution at all?

It's called DLAA, or Native AA. Sure, it exists in many a game.

 

[wolf]

Can we start a new thread for this?

A mod will alter the name. I still would prefer to have one thread where RTX users can discuss DLSS among ourselves without injecting opinion from those who aren't using it. There's literally every other thread about it/upscaling/where it comes up, for that.

 

[Macro Device]

without injecting opinion from those who aren't using it.

Well, I technically ain't using it because don't have any RTX GPU on hand but I'm really interested in buying an RTX thing to have some fun with DLSS, likely next year because I'm unsure if taking a GPU with me to another continent is a good idea.

 

[TSiAhmat]

Well, I technically ain't using it because don't have any RTX GPU on hand but I'm really interested in buying an RTX thing to have some fun with DLSS, likely next year because I'm unsure if taking a GPU with me to another continent is a good idea.

I feel like the better definition for this thread is:

I still would prefer to have one thread where RTX users can discuss DLSS among ourselves without injecting opinion from those who aren't interested in using it

 

[the54thvoid]

Title and OP wording updated to just 'DLSS'.

 

[Chrispy_]

So my opinion on DLSS is different to how it's been for the last six years, because DLSS4 changes everything.

My answer from a few posts above is relevant to DLSS1, 2, and 3 - but as of last weekend, and the announcement of the Nvidia Apps ability to replace DLLs without the game developer needing support, I think I'm a changed man when it comes to DLSS4 Transformer model.

It's still very obvious to me that the resolution is lower in motion than it is for a static scene, but the artifacts, waxy textures, and motion blur are largely gone with DLSS4 Transformer. So far, I've only tested CP2077 but DLSS4 Transormer seems to give more acceptable image quality than DLSS3 (CNN model) ever did.

I'll say that I'm now okay using 4K balanced with Transformer, and with the prior CNN generations, I strongly objected to DLSS even in quality mode, because the problems with DLSS 1, 2, 3 weren't really about hiding the resolution upscale - they were temporal issues and affected all motion - motion of the camera and motion of moving objects. The base resolution affected sharpness, but the artifacts were equally present whether you were using ultra performance upscaling, or running 100% with DLAA.

• Are you hopeful for ongoing adoption and support?
  yes, the Nvidia app promises this - let's hope Jensen wasn't telling untruths like "5070=4090"
  
  
• Which is your preferred mode and for what native output resolution?
  4k, balanced, transformer, with FG
  
  
• Do you also use Image sharpening?
  Yes. cranked to 100%
  
  
• Would you like to see it adopted in more games that do not feature Ray Tracing purely for increased performance?
  Yes. Transformer model works best on RT and RR, but 4K displays are far cheaper than graphics cards, so it's reasonable to assume that lots of people have displays they cannot drive at its native resolution in games.

 

[Macro Device]

it's reasonable to assume that lots of people have displays they cannot drive at its native resolution in games.

Absolutely. I own a 4K display myself and I got it for as low as 150 quid. Can't buy a good 1080p GPU at this price, let alone a 4K one. Upscaling tech is a good addition to whatever game. Addition, not the core mechanic, mind me. If a game isn't even supposed to be run at native then it's full-on chicanery.

I've only tested CP2077 but DLSS4 Transormer seems to give more acceptable image quality than DLSS3 (CNN model) ever did.

After spending 9 months only playing obsolete things like FIFA 09, Postal 2, Max Payne 1 and 2, and the likes, I decided to see if I've grown immune to disadvantages of FSR. To my surprise, I have. Played CP77 at 1080p with FSR 3 at Quality and it wasn't unbearable. Yet, was frustrated to be CPU bound in many places. 12400F does no longer suffice, even with 6700 XT. I guess I'll take another 9 months break and then reintroduce the game to myself but at 1440p/4K, with DLSS and some ray tracing.

 

[AtiAmd]

I think dlss is a great piece of kit. I've heard a lot on the internet about excessive input lag in fast paced games or strange artifacts - I never experienced any of that. Thanks to this tehnology i can play my favorite games with better image quality and higher frames. Thanks Nwidia!

 

[Chrispy_]

I think dlss is a great piece of kit. I've heard a lot on the internet about excessive input lag in fast paced games or strange artifacts - I never experienced any of that. Thanks to this tehnology i can play my favorite games with better image quality and higher frames. Thanks Nwidia!

You can blame Nvidia for confusing the issue by naming two completely different technologies "DLSS":

DLSS upscaling increases your framerate by rendering at a lower resolution, but it reduces input lag because the higher framerates reduce the time between frames.
DLSS frame generation increases your framerate by faking frames, but it increases input lag because input only affects every alternate (real) frame, and frame generation is based on the last two (real) frames, adding even more delay to the final output.

In reality, frame-generation doesn't add that much input lag to the total latency chain that covers mouse click to screen update, but the input lag with frame generation doesn't improve with the higher framerates like people expect - so a game running at 135fps with frame-generation often still feels like it has the same input lag of a game running at 60fps.

 

[Zazigalka]

UQ is essentially 77%, or 2957x1663 in the case of 2160p.

I remember I saw UQ in The Alters, performance was similar to DLAA.