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Intel Reports Fourth-Quarter and Full-Year 2024 Financial Results

Alder Lake was the one good Intel product line in over a decade of mediocrity.

As long as it keeps working fine, i will keep it even when i upgrade.
 
You are absolutely right. This is also the hardest aspect of the industry for both tech site staff and computer enthusiasts to understand. The interworkings of semiconductor fabrication industry requires the fab and fab customer to almost be surgically joined at the hip. The constant news articles about IFS getting customers and becoming like TSMC came from a place of pure ignorance. Even some of these industry insiders and readers leave comments about how TSMC helps AMD with technological development of their products. How on freaking earth was that supposed to be the case between Intel and AMD or even Intel and Nvidia or Intel and Apple, etc. etc.
There are other cases of chip makers opening their fabs to competitors: Samsung and IBM come to mind. Recall that Apple used both Samsung and TSMC for its chips until the iPhone 7.

At the time, i had read up about C2D and realised it was a stormer, i actually sold my pretty good(at the time) AMD rig and bought a Intel board and a pentium4 waiting for C2D. All my mates thought i was insane, then C2D came out and devastaded AMD, when i bought a C2D chip, my system was a corker and blew theirs out of the water. Guess what.........They all switched to Intel setups.

Intel certainly need something. I am not a E core hater either, some people just do not understand the point of them, if the OS and board was properly setup and working for them, they would be amazing. I really hope Intel can get themselves out of the doldrums. For now though i will stick with my 12700k setup as it has been the most stable PC i have had running for 4years with not a single BSOD, and that is no lie.
I haven't had a BSOD on my Phenom II in 15 years.
 
I haven't had a BSOD on my Phenom II in 15 years.
I cannot say that any of all the AMD cpus I had ever gave me any problems. I'm talking as far back as the original Athlon.

Then again, neither did the Intel that I got in between.
 
Foundries revenue was 17.543B, but they lost 13.4B.
Foundries aren’t expected to show an operating profit until the end of 2027, so yes?
 
Foundries aren’t expected to show an operating profit until the end of 2027, so yes?
There is no foundry. Intel is playing financial reporting tricks with IFS to make it seem like its a separate company but its not. All of IFS expenses are just Intel corporation expenses. All IFS revenue (save a few hundred million) is from Intel as a ‘customer’. It’s smoke and mirrors trying to trick the likes of AMD, Nvidia, Apple, Qualcomm, etc to use their fab services. No one’s, and I mean NO ONE’S buying it.
 
Yes, given how horribly Intel behaved in the 90s and 00s, it is quite nice to see their downfall.
Well, all typical German Schadenfreude aside, I wouldn't use the term 'nice' here. I'd rather call it just and well-deserved, maybe even way overdue – Intel in fact really worked hard, very hard for literal decades, to earn their reputation as being a cutthroat company, which never once ever really tried to actually compete for once (in the typical sense of the word's meaning).

No, Intel always wanted (and always at least tried) to directly and mercilessly outright kill each and any competitor and wanted to extinguish such forever. They really took the phrase of a ›competitive threat‹ to heart, and acted accordingly… As if it was a matter of life and death! Yet in a sense it always was, at least for Intel. Since Intel just can't handle competition and they never could.

The funny thing is, that the press always loved, and many still do so, to picture Intel as a juggernaut, and while it actually is true (in the meaning of a destructive force, less as a heavyweight), in reality Intel is and always was nothing but a bully, always trying to give everyone around them a bad or at least hard time…

Some will scream about the loss of competition but bad company behavior is far, far worse. Such behavior is why we end up with monopolies (*cough* Nvidia *cough*). Even if Intel goes away, a dozen upcoming and new players will fill the void (AMD, Apple, Microsoft, Nvidia, Qualcomm, Google, Mediatek, Samsung, Huawei, Si-Five, Amazon, IBM, etc.)
When Intel eventually will be wiped off the commercial trade register, there won't be a actual loss of competition.

Since every market where Intel was partaking and acted in, there was never actual competition anyway, but always only a sudden market-player, who loved to engage in corrupting the market heavily in its own favour through the back-door at the very market's root, using their beloved OEMs – Not only undercutting but outright work around the customer's actual genuine free choice between competitors and their respective products, undermined customers' choice completely and with that, actually cripple intentionally competition, knife innovation and secretly cut competitors off their revenue, only to starve them to death, no matter how competitive and actually innovative these were.

So no, Intel dying and eventually ending up going extinct, will actually foster competition, since there won't be a corrupt market-player anymore, who always hindered innovation from day one and purposefully stalled advancements for the sole sake of blatant enrichment – The decade of quad-cores comes to mind here!

I'm sorry, but they basically asked for itStraight off their own earnings-presentation 1Q20, p 15;
Andy Grove.png

Who knows if those who put it into it, were actually aware of the stunning irony of it, like not
 
Well, all typical German Schadenfreude aside, I wouldn't use the term 'nice' here. I'd rather call it just and well-deserved, maybe even way overdue – Intel in fact really worked hard, very hard for literal decades, to earn their reputation as being a cutthroat company, which never once ever really tried to actually compete for once (in the typical sense of the word's meaning).

No, Intel always wanted (and always at least tried) to directly and mercilessly outright kill each and any competitor and wanted to extinguish such forever. They really took the phrase of a ›competitive threat‹ to heart, and acted accordingly… As if it was a matter of life and death! Yet in a sense it always was, at least for Intel. Since Intel just can't handle competition and they never could.

The funny thing is, that the press always loved, and many still do so, to picture Intel as a juggernaut, and while it actually is true (in the meaning of a destructive force, less as a heavyweight), in reality Intel is and always was nothing but a bully, always trying to give everyone around them a bad or at least hard time…


When Intel eventually will be wiped off the commercial trade register, there won't be a actual loss of competition.

Since every market where Intel was partaking and acted in, there was never actual competition anyway, but always only a sudden market-player, who loved to engage in corrupting the market heavily in its own favour through the back-door at the very market's root, using their beloved OEMs – Not only undercutting but outright work around the customer's actual genuine free choice between competitors and their respective products, undermined customers' choice completely and with that, actually cripple intentionally competition, knife innovation and secretly cut competitors off their revenue, only to starve them to death, no matter how competitive and actually innovative these were.

So no, Intel dying and eventually ending up going extinct, will actually foster competition, since there won't be a corrupt market-player anymore, who always hindered innovation from day one and purposefully stalled advancements for the sole sake of blatant enrichment – The decade of quad-cores comes to mind here!

I'm sorry, but they basically asked for itStraight off their own earnings-presentation 1Q20, p 15;
View attachment 382750
Who knows if those who put it into it, were actually aware of the stunning irony of it, like not
Very very well said!
 
The decade of quad-cores comes to mind here!
Preach it brother!

Thats when I got my last intel cpu and jumped off to AMD and Apple for good, plus the news of how they bribed Dell and others to do not use AMD cpus, especially on their lucrative corporate lines.
 
AMD didn’t almost go down because of intel, amd went down because they tried to grow to much right before the economic collapse of 2008. Which also killed 400mm wafers…
You're not only just uninformed (or prejudiced; pick one), you are mostly utterly clueless, since the story about 400mm-wafers actually died in 2017 – That's like a decade in-bewteen! Also, it only was a thing from 2012 onwards between TSMC, Samsung and lastly Intel exclusively, mainly due to Intel itself heavily pushing it!.

Also, Intel's management tried heavily pushing such huge wafers, for the sole reason of installing nothing but a capital industrial-barrier upon the way up especially for any smaller semiconductor-competitors (who wouldn't have had the monetary means to actually engage in those huge costs for it), to kill them through sheer costs and with that by proxy knife Intel's own competitors. Literally no-one else but those three fabs exclusively was actually eyeing with such big wafers in the first place.

That being said, AMD never ever at any point in time was pursuing 400mm-wafers, since by the time these were pushed in 2012–2017, AMD had already split off their semiconductor-division into the independent spin-off called GlobalFoundries. So you're just making stuff up for sh!tting on AMD for no reason here…

Have a read;
El RegHow TSMC killed 450mm wafers for fear of Intel, Samsung
 
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You're not only just uninformed (or prejudiced; pick one), you are mostly utterly clueless, since the story about 400mm-wafers actually died in 2017 – That's like a decade in-bewteen! Also, it only was a thing from 2012 onwards between TSMC, Samsung and lastly Intel exclusively, mainly due to Intel itself heavily pushing it!.

Also, Intel's management tried heavily pushing such huge wafers, for the sole reason of installing nothing but a capital industrial-barrier upon the way up especially for any smaller semiconductor-competitors (who wouldn't have had the monetary means to actually engage in those huge costs for it), to kill them through sheer costs and with that by proxy knife Intel's own competitors. Literally no-one else but those three fabs exclusively was actually eyeing with such big wafers in the first place.

That being said, AMD never ever at any point in time was pursuing 400mm-wafers, since by the time these were pushed in 2012–2017, AMD had already split off their semiconductor-division into the independent spin-off called GlobalFoundries. So you're just making stuff up for sh!tting on AMD for no reason here…

Have a read;
El RegHow TSMC killed 450mm wafers for fear of Intel, Samsung
Pretty certain I remember intel having 400mm wafers and that the project was killed during the economic downturn 2008-2012
And if i look at things published before 2022 when that tsmc killed it was published I find plenty of articles talking about 450mm much earlier than 2012.
fabs should have been up by 2011
according to some https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/technology/publications/assets/pwc-faster-greener-smarter.pdf for example

never said amd was doing large wafers, the world economy broke during the gfc
The period that also brought amd to ruin Because their financials were horrible and everyone wanted their money back right away.

thats the link between the two I was going for, shit economy ruining many good thing.
450mm wafers 2.5 times more space for chips per wafer would have been great
 
Pretty certain I remember intel having 400mm wafers and that the project was killed during the economic downturn 2008-2012
And if i look at things published before 2022 when that tsmc killed it was published I find plenty of articles talking about 450mm much earlier than 2012.
fabs should have been up by 2011
according to some https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/technology/publications/assets/pwc-faster-greener-smarter.pdf for example

never said amd was doing large wafers, the world economy broke during the gfc
The period that also brought amd to ruin Because their financials were horrible and everyone wanted their money back right away.

thats the link between the two I was going for, shit economy ruining many good thing.
450mm wafers 2.5 times more space for chips per wafer would have been great
The tool makers weren't convinced that 450 mm wafers would be good for them; at the time, they were still salty over 300 mm wafers.

It could take 30 years for IC equipment vendors to garner a return on their earlier outlays for development of 300-mm fab tools. For 450-mm gear, "there is never going to be a payback," Hadar said.
 
In context of today I don't know how much we can really expect the company to perform financially compared to a decade+ ago. Is the demand for faster equipment the same as it was back then? Everything everywhere feels like there is stagnation. GPUs are probably sought more than the CPUs being made (Am I wrong? I honestly don't know).
Could that be why AMD has been having more success (ignoring AI for a moment)
Market ain't what it used to be.

Microsoft Windows has become progressively worse in quality (which imo has more to do with BSODs than anything else but maybe not all cases)...
The world just isn't the same as it was before. External 5.25" bays are becoming less relevant by the day and I am screaming into the void.
Relationships and dynamics with foundries ain't the same. Demands and needs are changing.

I hate saying that. Anyways curious if Intel would ever attempt to do some APU on par with what Ryzen has offered with their Xe cores. Just shove a bunch of Xe Cores without making the discrete cards irrelevant. Y'know?
 
I hate saying that. Anyways curious if Intel would ever attempt to do some APU on par with what Ryzen has offered with their Xe cores. Just shove a bunch of Xe Cores without making the discrete cards irrelevant. Y'know?
so you want a higher power version of Lunar lake essentially?
 
so you want a higher power version of Lunar lake essentially?
Yes. I don't quite understand why they didn't try to do that with the Arrow Lake Desktop CPUs and hope it had nothing to do with their GPUs. Were any reasons given? Heck another SKU for desktop I don't think would be unwelcome
 
Pretty certain I remember intel having 400mm wafers and that the project was killed during the economic downturn 2008-2012.
Then your memory just doesn't serves you right this time. 400/450mm-wafers being killed hasn't had ever anything to do with some economic downturn, it really didn't.

Yes, these types of huge wafers were heavily pushed by Intel alone for years, namely only for installing said industrial competitive firewall and literal paywall before any smaller competing semiconductor foundries, which then would (in Intel's view) hopefully just die off along the road to the top, when breaking their monetary back to pursue such vastly expensive tools and equipment for even handling said wafer-sizes in the first place, for staying with the big players anywhere close to the top.

And yes, Intel alone and exclusively actually heavily pushed these wafers for years since 2008 – You're correct so far on that mark. Intel basically tried to shame the big players into submission for pursuing these types of wafer-sizes for half a decade, as always firmly backed by their myriad of media-outlets on payroll.

Yet Intel's babbling didn't even was actually registered by others like TSMC, Samsung, GlobalFoundries, UMC and the myriad of smaller contract-manufacturers before anything 2012, who just were right in-between to scale their foundry-works up by quite a notch for, due to and mostly solely backed by a billion ARM-cores being fabbed en masse – Actually establishing a sound and financially worthwhile businesses by that which lasts to this very day.

However, that very increased competition (or others actually also establishing a foundry-model) and establishing their businesses as viable foundry-options within the industry, was in turn precisely, what Intel actually tried to prevent from the get-go to begin with: Competition in the semiconductor-space for them as a foundry!

What Intel actually wanted to push through, was to have a barrier in front of them before any other competitor. Intel tried nothing short of effectively yet deliberately split divide the semiconductor-industry into the big-players with, of course, Intel at the very top of it – Those who regularly could afford the enormous costs and sheer endless monetary means for maintaining the financial ecosystem for such wafer-sizes in the first place, which had nothing short but a price-tag of ∞,–).

… and the rest of the industry – Those who just had to stay low and couldn't by any means monetarily afford the actual equipment and tooling for wafers beyond fairly new 12" 300mm-wafers, if even that: The majority of smaller contract-manufacturers was still already fully occupied by maintaining 8" 200mm-, 6" 150mm- or 5" 125mm-wafers.

So in went on for several years that way until around 2012, when the big ones were lulled enough by around 2015, to actually thinking about it – Equipment- & Tooling-manufacturers like Nikon, ASML and others were more or less waiting for the green light from the big ones for years by then, if anyone was trying to push through (and bear the incredible amount of expenses beign needed for 450mm-wafer equipment and associated tooling alone), even if ASML, Nikon, Canon and who knows else readily knew from the start, it would be nothing but a uphill-battle financially for everyone involved either way – The one being stupid enough to pursue these types of wafers first, would likely go bankcrupt over it anyway, that was basically a given.

Though luckily, especially TSMC's executives soon figured and by 2017 just plain knew, that a) the Intel-projections were far and away from the truth and reality (Shocker!) and b) that TSMC itself most definitely would end up killing themselves over it through the sheer costs, and c) eventually saw the writing on the wall: Especially that Intel distinctively actually intended exactly that and nothing else to happen from the outset of things! So TSMC notified Samsung and the rest of the industry, and called it a day.

tl;dr: Intel tried nothing but to corner the foundry-market or better, the semiconductor-market as a whole and tried shutting out others through mere costs associated with actual fabrication of wafers… In fact a walled semiconductor-garden for Intel themselves, and no-one else.

It wasn't even a lame game of who chickens out first: Intel didn't even wanted to actually pursue these 450mm wafer-sizes themselves, since the sole intention was, to just actually pretend to do so publicly, while actually let others bear the very costs of it, fragment and actually divide the semiconductor-market in half, only to retreat afterwards back to 300mm-wafers, when the stupid competitor was bankrupted over it and in essence effectively just lull smaller competitors into bankruptcy this way to clean the market.

Never said AMD was doing large wafers, the world economy broke during the gfc.
Fair enough. Though it surely looked that way at first glance.
The period that also brought AMD to ruin, because their financials were horrible and everyone wanted their money back right away.
What brought AMD at the brink of financial collapse and everyday near-bankruptcy for years, can in largest parts be mostly attributed to unfair competition from Intel and Intel's straight-up illegal practices, and to way lesser amount the actual takeover-costs of ATi…

Few actually know that fact, but no less than a figure but Intel even had a hand in it and through their connections of Intel Capital actually bribed the contracted legal firms, corporate advisors and the very accounting firm who AMD contracted to manage the acquisition, in deliberately asses and set a actual evaluation of assets and valuation way higher, than what ATi would've been actually worth back then, in Intel's noble hope, that AMD might just die off over the actual way over-inflated acquisition and the take-over's cost, being purposefully bloated by several billion USD.

ATi's own evaluation estimated their patents' and technologies' worth to be actually only around $3.2Bn, not the $5.6Bn which was actually paid by AMD – That was never actually disclosed by the involved firms towards AMD, to intentionally inflate the price-tag for several billion, only to cripple and hopefully kill AMD in the process. Luckily, it didn't!

Thats the link between the two I was going for, shit economy ruining many good thing.
450mm wafers 2.5 times more space for chips per wafer would have been great
See above, the global economy had way lesser to do with it, than shady practices behind closed doors actually did.

Also, the majority of projections for 450mm-wafers over economic viability were (intentionally) way too optimistic and showed net revenues, which never actually would've materialised in the first place – Guess who contracted these advisors in giving such skewed view-points, to hopefully yet intentionally lull others into bankruptcy to begin with!
 
Intel need another Core2Duo

I will never forget my Tualatin P3 :) paid way too much for that little bugger, and I thought I was so cool not to fall for the P4 hype :D
 
Well, all typical German Schadenfreude aside, I wouldn't use the term 'nice' here. I'd rather call it just and well-deserved, maybe even way overdue – Intel in fact really worked hard, very hard for literal decades, to earn their reputation as being a cutthroat company, which never once ever really tried to actually compete for once (in the typical sense of the word's meaning).

No, Intel always wanted (and always at least tried) to directly and mercilessly outright kill each and any competitor and wanted to extinguish such forever. They really took the phrase of a ›competitive threat‹ to heart, and acted accordingly… As if it was a matter of life and death! Yet in a sense it always was, at least for Intel. Since Intel just can't handle competition and they never could.

The funny thing is, that the press always loved, and many still do so, to picture Intel as a juggernaut, and while it actually is true (in the meaning of a destructive force, less as a heavyweight), in reality Intel is and always was nothing but a bully, always trying to give everyone around them a bad or at least hard time…


When Intel eventually will be wiped off the commercial trade register, there won't be a actual loss of competition.

Since every market where Intel was partaking and acted in, there was never actual competition anyway, but always only a sudden market-player, who loved to engage in corrupting the market heavily in its own favour through the back-door at the very market's root, using their beloved OEMs – Not only undercutting but outright work around the customer's actual genuine free choice between competitors and their respective products, undermined customers' choice completely and with that, actually cripple intentionally competition, knife innovation and secretly cut competitors off their revenue, only to starve them to death, no matter how competitive and actually innovative these were.

So no, Intel dying and eventually ending up going extinct, will actually foster competition, since there won't be a corrupt market-player anymore, who always hindered innovation from day one and purposefully stalled advancements for the sole sake of blatant enrichment – The decade of quad-cores comes to mind here!

I'm sorry, but they basically asked for itStraight off their own earnings-presentation 1Q20, p 15;
View attachment 382750
Who knows if those who put it into it, were actually aware of the stunning irony of it, like not
Totally correct. They thought Intel would dying and eventually replace to AMD x86-64 for survive as they really hope Intel would completely wiped out, but that wasn't the case. Seems AMD fanboys are trying to fool on us for misleading and misinformation about it, but actually if Intel are going to die, all of x86 market would going extinct, ARM in other hand are still not great as x86 market as well, only smartphones are very successful.
 
Whole year's results are negative. Was told the 2nd half of 2025 will change it, Intel's 18A will change the world. I really hope so, because TSMC is greedy as f* nowadays. Anyway, don't expect customers to go for Intel's 18A before Intel really shows what their node is capable of and what it is not. I mean who would be so crazy to make a decision to choose their 18A based on previous unfulfilled statements and now yet to be fulfilled promises. In the end, IFS may actually save Intel in 2026-2027, while their own chips might remain a continuation to already happening tragedy. What else, if not a tragedy, would one call current situation with Arrow Lake (not single AL chip present in TOP10 best selling CPUs) and it certainly will get only worse once Strix Halo is launched in mobile segment.

I fear that AMD will not introduce more than 8 cores per CCD with Zen 6 (though I still hope they'll do), as they are not getting seriously pressured from Intel. What may be actually stressful a bit for AMD is Intel's GPU division, which makes huge advancements in quite short time.
 
I hope Andy Grove was better at accounting than he was at spelling, but from the state of the company I doubt it.
 
I hope Andy Grove was better at accounting than he was at spelling, but from the state of the company I doubt it.
The plural of crisis is crises. In any case, Andy Grove's last position at Intel was chairman of the board and he retired from that role in 2005. Intel's troubles can't be laid at his feet.
 
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