QVL - Myth, Legend, Marketing/Advertising, what is your take?

[Bill_Bright]

Thanks SP.

First - I feel the survey is lacking because it does not specify which QVL. CPU or RAM? There are even SSD QVLs - which I don't believe should exist - but that's a different discussion.

For most users, to ensure compatibility, they should select a CPU from the CPU QVL.

For RAM (which I think is the main focus of this survey), there are just too many RAM makers and RAM models for any motherboard maker to test and verify all. Therefore, users do not have to buy listed RAM but, for the best odds of compatibility, they should buy RAM with the same specs as listed RAM.

Now before someone posts some anecdotal example of incompatibility then claim all QVLs are useless, QVLs are not perfect. But the vast majority of listed RAM is compatible with that board. And what is the purpose of QVLs? To list compatible RAM. Are there exceptions? Of course. But exceptions don't make the rule.

Now - in regards to this poll, I have 2 opinions - depending on the type of user seeking information.

For new and the less experienced builders/upgraders, RAM QVLs are the place to start their research for compatible RAM. There just is no other source of information that inclusive. Yes, there are memory finders like Crucial's or Newegg's. But Crucial wants to sell you Crucial and Newegg does not test RAM. Therefore, they must get their data from the RAM makers and the motherboard makers.

So back to the QVLs then users can "verify" compatibility through Crucial, NewEgg, PCPartPicker, etc.

For advanced, experienced, enthusiast builders/upgraders, RAM QVLs are much less informative - but they can still be useful as a starting place for their research.

If you are talking about XMP/EXPO, DOCP, tWRWR_sg or the rest of the alphabet, you are NOT a new or less experienced user. You also most likely are NOT coming to TPU asking which RAM to buy.

Sadly, what I see is many here see, and only see RAM selection through their own eyes, the eyes of the highly experienced, enthusiast individuals seeking maximum performance for their next gaming rig - and nothing less will do. And frankly, that is fine for those in that category. But the reality is, that is but a small minority of computer users and first time builders/upgraders.

Not everyone is a gamer. Not everyone is seeking unparalleled performance. Not everyone wants to dink with clocks, voltages and speeds. Many, in fact most, in my experience, of those seeking advice, just want a stable workhorse.

 

[Ruru]

XMP/EXPO/EPP/etc. are NOT and never will be guaranteed to work.
You are buying possibility of running of that speed (guaranteed by memory manufacturer), BUT that does NOT mean it will work at that speed on MB/platform you own.

Good point. I have a 16GB 3600MHz kit on my 2nd PC and it simply won't run at over 3000MHz with my 6700K, after I upgraded it to a 8600K, it rans at its XMP-3600 profile without any issues.

 

[AusWolf]

QVL is a set of RAM sticks or modules that have been tested and verified to work with X motherboard. It doesn't mean that it shouldn't work with other RAM.

It's more about not buying over-specced RAM relative to what your CPU supports, imo. The benefits are negligible anyway.

Good point. I have a 16GB 3600MHz kit on my 2nd PC and it simply won't run at over 3000MHz with my 6700K, after I upgraded it to a 8600K, it rans at its XMP-3600 profile without any issues.

You're lucky that you got it up to 3000. The 6700K only supports 2133 officially, as far as I know.

 

[Macro Device]

You're lucky

Negative on this one. All 6700Ks I tested (more than 30 thereof) could easily handle 3400ish MHz, at least a third managed it past 3600. This is a total silicon lottery loss unfortunately.

 

[Waldorf]

@AusWolf
depends what you compare, and what hw is used.
i know i would never run x950 chips with jedec ram.
ignoring even on my 5800x i had before, going from ~28-30GB/s to 48-50GB/s IS noticable, and running jedec (2666) would cause stutter in newer games, while 3600 did not.

just because you dont see a benefit for yourself, doesnt mean there isnt.

 

[ShiBDiB]

It helps.

It takes the guess work out of it and is something less experienced users can appreciate. The people in this thread dropping 23 acronyms and bringing up timings aren't the target audience.

 

[Bill_Bright]

just because you dont see a benefit for yourself, doesnt mean there isnt.

^^^This^^^

The people in this thread dropping 23 acronyms and bringing up timings aren't the target audience.

And ^^^This^^^

 

[chrcoluk]

I would put QVL as it helps category but not more then that, tested CPU isnt listed, where they use gear mode adjustments or not, and if any tuning was required or it just worked out of the box with XMP. Silicon lottery is also always a thing.

My Asrock boards make some wild claims on clock speed e.g. which to me seem fantasy. Whenever I mention clock wall on here @ir_cow reminds me its probably board quality, which makes me think QVL is misleading on low/middle range boards.

 

[freeagent]

I have a board that I have not used yet, good for 12-14th gen. If I were to go by the QVL for that board, I wouldn't be able to find any sticks because the timings are so sloppy that they do not exist, so I would have to risk it for the biscuit on any pair that I bought lol. So it can go either way.

But If I was building a brand new system, I would check out the QVL to make sure I was on the right track. Which chances are you probably would be.

 

[Waldorf]

@chrcoluk
really depends, while most non-ocer usually know about XMP/AMP (as in higher clocks), you xmp is a little different than amp/ryzen, where its a little more complicated to get peak perf,
e.g. my kit can do C14 per amp, but likes timings more than clocks, and i can do C16/1T with lowest secondaries (possible on ryzen) @1.35v.
but yeah, board has impact on it, most "best" clocks/timings are usually on higher tier/2 slot boards.

 

[Tahagomizer]

The way I see it, QVLs are for people who can't be bothered to research and check compatibility, they want assurance that a certain combination will work. Not ignorant consumers, mostly system integrators and small to medium size businesses where time is expensive. If it's used as a marketing angle, it's because marketing monkeys will use anything possible as a marketing angle, especially if it sounds smart and technical, even if it's utter nonsense (AI-enhanced socks anyone?)

 

[Dr. Dro]

I believe the QVL helps. In reality it's closer to the "old hat", but it will help find a generally compatible kit that will be easier to work with, which is good for businesses or newbie builders. QVL's aren't a definitive list of compatibility and shouldn't be taken as such, the memory kit I have is QVL'd for my old Z690 motherboard and doesn't run at its nominal rated speed on it, for example. Another massive downside of QVL's is once a motherboard manufacturer stops production or support of a particular model, they will stop maintaining the QVL list.

This means that when dealing with an older platform, you'll not find any QVL'd kit on the market, and even if you do, it will almost certainly be of a newer revision which makes the QVL worthless. Some stores specialize in stocking QVL'd kits for older motherboards, but to be frank, all you're doing is overpaying on old stock if you go that route. As long as you have a basic understanding of how the memory controller for the platform you are trying to run works, you will not run into compatibility issues - and the most common of them is the memory timings, rank and bank count, as well as the IC density, as long as you get something that is similar in those aspects to the QVL'd kit, you will likely be okay. For example, I have a DDR3 kit that works okay on Sandy Bridge's IMC, but won't work with the Core 2 processor on the G41 chipset, because it's single sided and with twice the IC density that platform will read. This problem has become very rare in the DDR4 era, and with DDR5... you just have to make sure your BIOS is updated if you run one of those new 24 or 48 GB sticks. If you aren't chasing the big MT/s numbers, pretty much any kit will work.

In my opinion: if your platform is new and you have access to a QVL'd kit, by all means.

 

[freeagent]

QVLs are for people who can't be bothered to research and check compatibility,

Isnt that what a QVL is though?

I know the ones for my AM4 boards were very detailed. My Intel board, not so much.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Isnt that what a QVL is though?

I know the ones for my AM4 boards were very detailed. My Intel board, not so much.

Which board is it?

 

[freeagent]

Which board is it?

This guy right here, pretty tiny man.. it is the smallest nice mobo I have seen in person lol..

ROG STRIX B660-I GAMING WIFI | Gaming motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global

 

[Dr. Dro]

This guy right here, pretty tiny man.. it is the smallest nice mobo I have seen in person lol..

ROG STRIX B660-I GAMING WIFI | Gaming motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global

ROG STRIX B660-I GAMING WIFI | Gaming motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global

ROG Strix B660-I Gaming WiFi Intel® B660 LGA 1700 ITX motherboard features PCIe® 5.0, two M.2 slots, DDR5, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type-C®, WiFi 6 and Intel 2.5 Gb Ethernet. It also features AI Cooling and Two-Way AI Noise Cancelation. ROG Strix B660-I Gaming WiFi caters to gamers and all builders...

rog.asus.com

Not a lot of entries, but mostly any 5600 or 6000 MT/s kit is sure to work with this board regardless of whether you are running 12th or 13/14th Gen CPU. The QVL contains Hynix, Micron and Spectek (which iirc is Micron's low-end brand), all in all no fuss, this board shouldn't be picky

 

[eidairaman1]

QVL is a set of RAM sticks or modules that have been tested and verified to work with X motherboard. It doesn't mean that it shouldn't work with other RAM.

It's more about not buying over-specced RAM relative to what your CPU supports, imo. The benefits are negligible anyway.


You're lucky that you got it up to 3000. The 6700K only supports 2133 officially, as far as I know.

Same story as the FX 8350 only supporting 1866, I have mine at 2400 with tighter than Trident Timings

 

[Contra]

Not a lot of entries, but mostly any 5600 or 6000 MT/s kit is sure to work with this board regardless of whether you are running 12th or 13/14th Gen CPU.

I would add that it is unlikely that anything higher than this will even be able to load.

 

[Crazybc]

I will admit I do take a look at it I was originally going to build a AMD system so I bought a few sticks of DDR5-6400 with an xmp profile The box says for Intel systems and its not on my motherboards QVL list although a lot of memory from that manufacture is. I tried it set up xmp profile in my motherboards memory profile and it worked without a hitch . I use it as a general guideline and I've never had an issue A motherboard manufacturer cant try every speed and every size and combination of ram in a motherboard because mort have dozens of models. At times in the past with more finicky motherboards I have stuck to what's been tested and worked though. I dont know if I have been lucky but I have never had an issue in 3 dozen builds or so.

 

[azrael]

The few times I could actually find the type of memory on the QVL (looking exclusively for ECC) I wasn't able to buy it. Now, I usually start my search over on Kingston's site.

 

[_roman_]

"Qvl is old hat" ... insert reason.

There are the processor limitations see. AMD Homepage -> Ryzen 7600X -> memory settings - support for the guaranteed minimum speeds
There are mainboard limitations -> only 2 ram sticks or 4 ram sticks possible -> entry level board or medium priced mainboard
There are limitations from the dram itself -> dram maker -> dram year manufactured -> dram manufacturer type: i have for example hynix a-die / my am4 were micron e? - than micron b because I bought older kit - whatever - all am4 - ddr4 ram sold.
As an entry point check those windows ryzen freeware software which shows the processor number and all the dram settings and all the mainboard voltages on the net for similar plattform. Do not take it for granted. I started in a "safe" area.

I only need one profile on the dram. That is the 4800 MT/s profile for CMOS reset. The gentoo linux toolchain while compiling software will crash quite fast or the linux kernel will crash quite fast with unstable dram settings. I slowly lowered a value and keep on using it for two weeks and saved the profile on usb with a datecode. I still use 1.25V for the DRAM - not the 1.40 or 1.45V like others do. I have safe and stable values now. The last 10 percent are not worth wasting of my time.

edit: Changing only one value in two weeks is the only way to know for sure which setting caused instability in two weeks. I also had to revert to settings which were much older once. Well it took me several months to improve my dram settings. I do not want to improve my voltage on the dram - although other dram kits are sold with 1.35V. Totally safe, but I do not want to.

QVL is not really worth looking because the mainboard + cpu + dram chip type + dram settings in mainboard + agesa version = uefi version from the mainboard matters.

QVL I never think about it - It is not important.

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

Memory Training algo and silicon quality still plays a major role..

 

[_roman_]

ignoring even on my 5800x i had before, going from ~28-30GB/s to 48-50GB/s IS noticable, and running jedec (2666) would cause stutter in newer games, while 3600 did not.

I had older micron type RAM which were much better as the crucial ballistics I had before. Check AIDA output. The shown value on the MSI b550 gaming edge wifi do not really say much about speed. Only the aida output matters. My 5800X benefited a lot in compile times when I had tuned my DRAM settings. There was a difference.

edit: fixed typo

 

[Waldorf]

@Crazybc
except many XMP kits wont be able to run stable with the same profile on amd, at least prior to AM4, those usually needed AMP.
ignoring that that a kit works, doesnt mean its stable.

@_roman_
the only problem: i had more difference with the test results, because of variations in clock speeds, even with room having AC and cpu on LC.
stopped using aida after that for ram benching.

 

[Frick]

I wonder how much your region impacts the QVL. The times I've actually looked for QVL memory they have been pretty hard to find here, or just crazy expensive for the specs.