TechPowerUp Interviews David McAfee, GM of Client Channel Business, On the State of AMD Ryzen and Radeon

[Tek-Check]

The link on the cpu side has been Gen5 x4 from the 7000 series. They never developed the chipset to make full use of the link. Maybe it's too expensive to make it 5.0

Yes, the Gen5 PHY link has been there on IOD, of course, but not used as Gen5. At some point, the chipset itself will need to be upgraded with at least one extra x4 link, as daisy-chaining chipsets wastes x8 lanes. New chipset will most likely come to AM6.

As a minimum, I expect to see one more x4 Gen5 link on a new IOD, which will be on N4, to alleviate current x4 link used for USB4 controller. So, x32 Gen5 lanes on Zen6 means GPU+2 NVMe+USB4+chipset link, which is more mature solution than now.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Somehow I missed this entirely and caught wind of it on Reddit of all places. I stopped using Reddit around the time I joined this forum. And it's absolute cinema. I won't kick the hornet's nest any longer, because I know I have driven some of the AMD fans on this place to the brink and they're out for blood, so I'll just drop this here, peruse it and see the takes of AMD's own core fanbase.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/1ieq50f

 

[Tek-Check]

I think they might go a different direction and might be referring to AM6. Maybe they realised that the threaripper/epyc form factor is too big and expensive to maintain for workstations after launching the SP6 socket. Maybe and hopefully AM6 bridges that gap between the "basic" desktop features from AM5 and workstation/edge server needs of SP5/SP6

Possibly, we don't know at the moment. He mentioned the 'consistency of platforms' without addressing the elephant in the room - new IOD on Zen6.

There will be a new IOD on TSMC's N4 for Zen6 CPUs. This means they will introduce new hardware and connectivity options before transitioning to AM6 platform. This will allow them to trial and troubleshoot any new features on the mature platform before rolling out this IOD back again on future 'Zen7' and AM6.

As you can see below, IOD on Zen2/Zen3 had 32 Gen4 PCIe lanes (SerDes PHY), but only 24 were enabled on AM4 platform. On AM5, they could not pack all 28 Gen5 lanes into the top row and there is one x4 PHY below. This should change on the new IOD due to logic shrink, and we might see both more and all PCIe lanes back into the same row.

IOD on Zen 2/3​	IOD on Zen 4/5​

New IOD will increase in transistor density due to shrink from N6 to N4, so that more functional blocks can be etched on it. Zen6 IOD will most likely have standard upgrades:

1. new, faster Infinity Fabric PHY. It will be either classic upgrade to 'GMI4' or a new solution used on Strix Halo die
2. more PCIe lanes, hopefully one extra x4, in total 32 lanes, just like IOD on Zen2/3 had
3. new and faster IMC, possibly ~6800 MT/s
4. new iGPU with either 2CUs or 4CUs; RDNA4?
5. new VCN media engine with better encoders and codec support
6. new DCN display engine; native UHBR20 support for DP80 Gbps
7. integrated USB4 PHY (like in Strix Point) to free up x4 link for another SSD (Intel integrated two TB4 ports into Arrow Lake silicon)

That's about it. The above would be the best case scenario.

Somehow I missed this entirely and caught wind of it on Reddit of all places. I stopped using Reddit around the time I joined this forum. And it's absolute cinema. I won't kick the hornet's nest any longer, because I know I have driven some of the AMD fans on this place to the brink and they're out for blood, so I'll just drop this here, peruse it and see the takes of AMD's own core fanbase.

What are you looking for with such comment? I am confused.

 

[Dr. Dro]

What are you looking for with such comment? I am confused.

Writing what I usually do without using my own words in order to prove a point. Criticism ranging from TPU's weak questioning, to AMD's conduct and even the fact that the people who always step in to defend are putting the "I'm tired boss" face by now.

Many have started to argue that I have "hatred" and that I'm running a "crusade" while denying that there is a problem. A problem that is very much real. But every time I address it, flinging starts. Maybe I should just stop talking about it and let the whole thing crumble under its own weight.

 

[Hecate91]

What are you looking for with such comment? I am confused.

They're just looking to malign AMD as usual, its amusing for someone that bragged about buying a 5090.
On the topic, not much of an interview besides some CPU discussion, I can understand people want to know about GPU's but it's been obvious AMD doesn't want to give Nvidia any upper hand with any details.

 

[Dr. Dro]

They're just looking to malign AMD as usual, its amusing for someone that bragged about buying a 5090.
On the topic, not much of an interview besides some CPU discussion, I can understand people want to know about GPU's but it's been obvious AMD doesn't want to give Nvidia any upper hand with any details.

I don't need to malign AMD, AMD is... inconsequential to me, especially since I already made my decision and acted upon it. They are already maligning themselves. Look at this interview. It's an indefensible cop-out. It is deflection after non-answer. This guy managed to speak without saying anything, it's mind-blowing. Why do they just keep on self-inflicting these wounds?

Really, I want to hear your justification for this... thing. Like, does he even believe the things he said? More importantly, do you believe the things he said? Not that I'm expecting an answer to this, of course. If you run even the slightest risk of sounding that you agree with any point that doesn't back AMD, you will ignore the post or attempt to discredit it.

 

[Tek-Check]

If you run even the slightest risk of sounding that you agree with any point that doesn't back AMD, you will ignore the post or attempt to discredit it.

Dude... we are grown ups here. If you really want to hear someone's opinion on anything, you will need to give them freedom to express themselves in the first place, regardless of whether you agree with them or not.

We are not going to play here by your imposed rules because you do not sound as if you came here to actually hear various opinions. Pass. Moving on.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Dude... we are grown ups here. If you really want to hear someone's opinion on anything, you will need to give them freedom to express themselves in the first place, regardless of whether you agree with them or not.

We are not going to play here by your imposed rules because you do not sound as if you came here to actually hear various opinions. Pass. Moving on.

Uh, I post "Please explain yourself" you read "You're shutting us down!". How did you even come to this conclusion? Anyway, strictly on topic: this interview is downright embarrassing.

 

[Hecate91]

AMD is... inconsequential to me

And yet you take every chance to bash on every AMD thread, even though you don't care.

If you run even the slightest risk of sounding that you agree with any point that doesn't back AMD, you will ignore the post or attempt to discredit it.

I am welcome to my own opinion here, as is everyone else actually discussing the topic, instead of looking to crap on your least favorite brand while being dismissive of others you could at least be mature here.
Also, no I don't really care what he said, it's just a PR post on upcoming products.

 

[Tek-Check]

Uh, I post "Please explain yourself" you read "You're shutting us down!". How did you even come to this conclusion? Anyway, strictly on topic: this interview is downright embarrassing.

ok... I still haven't heard you asking anyone here any meaningful question.

Here, I have a proposition for you. Engage with my post above #28 and say how you imagine the new IOD would look like. It's your opportunity to be productive and engage meaningfully.

 

[Visible Noise]

Somehow I missed this entirely and caught wind of it on Reddit of all places. I stopped using Reddit around the time I joined this forum. And it's absolute cinema. I won't kick the hornet's nest any longer, because I know I have driven some of the AMD fans on this place to the brink and they're out for blood, so I'll just drop this here, peruse it and see the takes of AMD's own core fanbase.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/1ieq50f

Oh man, I love this one…

NVIDIA sends out its GPU and cooling engineers to do tech deep dives with outlets. AMD sends out this guy and the creep Frank Azor to repeat PR statements

Dude... we are grown ups here. If you really want to hear someone's opinion on anything, you will need to give them freedom to express themselves in the first place, regardless of whether you agree with them or not.

We are not going to play here by your imposed rules because you do not sound as if you came here to actually hear various opinions. Pass. Moving on.

Check Hecate’s post history. It’s the same post repeated hundreds of times.
Just do a search on “bash AMD“. It’s amazing.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Here, I have a proposition for you. Engage with my post above #28 and say how you imagine the new IOD would look like. It's your opportunity to be productive and engage meaningfully.

Sure! Count me in. If you want my opinion, I'm always happy to oblige and share my thoughts. I agree with you on most parts, especially regarding the memory support.

A redesigned IOD needs to address the question of the UCLK limitations existing in Zen 4 and 5 first and foremost, having to lower the ratio to 1:2 and in some cases, even 1:3 has robbed Zen 5 of the capability of achieving same level of bandwidth and latencies that the Intel processors can. They can easily exceed 6800 MT/s, I see 10000 MT/s easily being doable on next-gen ROG Apex level boards with CUDIMMs once that is implemented, perhaps the X970E Apex will be the board to see that when paired with a Zen 6 CPU.

An updated display engine featuring RDNA 4 or maybe even UDNA 1 IP would certainly be welcome, although only if they actually implement more than one workgroup. I realize that their objective was just to make every PC usable without discrete graphics (instead of just the G models), but for all its faults the quad-core Xe²-based graphics engine in Arrow Lake is quite powerful in its own right, and it's something where AMD can and should improve. Implementing 2 WGPs (for a total of 4 CUs) would help the processor drive high-resolution displays effortlessly.

Regarding outputs, I believe that even within this generation the primary limitation happens to be the motherboards themselves, many don't implement HDMI 2.1 or DP 2.0+ bandwidths due to the cost of driver ICs and the generally accepted mentality that iGPUs are weak. It's something that has to change and I believe that it is within both AMD and Intel's reach and interests to demand this for a next-generation chipset specification.

Finally, adding more PCIe lanes and a native USB 4 solution to free the lanes that were used up by the ASMedia controller is something that I honestly expect out of the X970E, especially if this chipset turns out to be built different (like the X570 was) from the two previous generations. Third wave AM5 or, if they opt for AM6, has great potential and I'm actually more than open to upgrading to it, especially if AMD figures out the 12 or 16-core CCD's. Last but not least, I'm a firm believer of OpenSIL and I hope they actually manage to ship it in time. Open source low-level firmware code will be the single biggest improvement in CPU architecture since AMD64, in my opinion.