It's happening again, melting 12v high pwr connectors

[desiprofessor]

Actually how long is your pre-order out from now? I was just thinking if it's far enough out it might be wise to wait to see if anything comes out that can monitor the cable. I know wireview can monitor partial connections but perhaps it will be upgraded to ensure per pin power draw.

Otherwise I think the adapters that convert from 8 pin are best or if your PSU has 8-pin on the PSU side.

Yeah I could just use the 12pin dongle with 4 wires that would then go to my PSU 8 pin.

The Order is supposed to come in by March 2nd, so still have time to cancel if I want.

 

[N/A]

So we’re back to user error.

Maybe they didn't get the memo that the cable has a shelf life of 7 inserts, especially for a youtuber who tinkers a lot. So the moral of the story is when booting for the first time, check for even distribution and you're good to go.

Wrong. See https://help.corsair.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/17759705845389 to see that a Corsair type 4 8-pin connector has 4 12V pins and 4 ground pins.

It walks on 3 legs though,

 

[ty_ger]

And yet in 14 months I haven’t bothered to take a single glance at my 4090‘s power cable.

Maybe I’m not an idiot that doesn’t know how to properly seat a plug I guess?



So we’re back to user error.

Who’d a thunk?

Everyone is an idiot. You are right.

Or, you know, just because you haven't had a problem doesn't mean there is no problem. Did you watch the videos? I think der8auer did a good job of dispelling the belief that he or the other person is an idiot.

.., check for even distribution and you're good to go.

How? Isn't that the point?

 

[Visible Noise]

Everyone is an idiot. You are right.

Or, you know, just because you haven't had a problem doesn't mean there is no problem. Did you watch the videos? I think der8auer did a good job of dispelling the belief that he or the other person is an idiot.

Yep, all those 100‘s of thousands of melting cables over the past two years makes my lack of an issue anecdotal. Oh, wait…, so much for “everyone“.

Here’s one for you: Why are all the reports from DIY’rs and none of the large OEMs have any issues? Could it be that properly plugging in a cable matters?

 

[ty_ger]

Yep, all those 100‘s of thousands of melting cables over the past two years makes my lack of an issue anecdotal. Oh, wait…, so much for “everyone“.

Here’s one for you: Why are all the reports from DIY’rs and none of the large OEMs have any issues? Could it be that properly plugging in a cable matters?

Did you watch the videos? I am pretty sure der8auer addressed that already. Do you think der8auer is incapable of plugging in a cable correctly? Do you think a tech enthusiast, hardcore overclocker, journalist, business owner, and well-informed person who has the same problem just failed to plug in a connector properly or bought a junk product even though he could afford whatever he wanted?

The problem is not widespread, but it is still a problem. Demonstrably. For no known reason. Or for reasons too many to count or predict. The root of it is that engineering controls need to prevent these problems, and the free ones incorporated are clearly not good enough.

 

[jnv11]

Maybe they didn't get the memo that the cable has a shelf life of 7 inserts, especially for a youtuber who tinkers a lot. So the moral of the story is when booting for the first time, check for even distribution and you're good to go.



It walks on 3 legs though,

Oh, I now see where I got it wrong. Only 3 of the 4 12V pins are connected because the 12V-2x6 connector has 6 12V lines, so each 8-pin Type 4 connector connects only 3 12V pins and 3 ground pins to the 12V-2x6 connector and relies on another 8-pin Type 4 connector to connect the rest.

However, a Corsair type 4 connector can safely supply many more amps per 12V pin than a PCI Express Graphics 12V pin because Corsair is not limited by thin gauge wires, poor quality pins, nor poor quality sockets that constrained PCI Express Graphics 6-pin and 8-pin connectors and required much thicker gauge wires, higher quality pins, and higher quality sockets.

 

[desiprofessor]

Andres Schilling did a bunch of tests with many different psus/build types and 5090 versions including AIBS and had no issues.

x.com

x.com

Falcon Northwest had no issues.

x.com

x.com

So confusing as I completely trust that De8eaur knows what he's talking about.

 

[phanbuey]

Andres Schilling did a bunch of tests with many different psus/build types and 5090 versions including AIBS and had no issues.

x.com

x.com

Falcon Northwest had no issues.

x.com

x.com

So confusing as I completely trust that De8eaur knows what he's talking about.

Both things can be true. If the failure rate of these is say 8-10% and the standard plug is ~2%, then you will see this. Usually happens when you push the design to the absolute limit (ahem, Intel).

My 4090 ran fine for 1.5 years before deciding to randomly melt the cable while running a not-that-demanding game (path of exile 2). It's still running fine minus the melted cable, but I know the smell to look out for now lol.

 

[Visible Noise]

Did you watch the videos?

Nope, don’t have to watch influencers videos to know it’s a huge nothing burger just like last time. Let me know when they have voluntarily demonetized their videos, otherwise they are just profiting from a hype cycle. Again, Nvidia has shipped 100‘s of thousands of these cards, maybe even millions, and once the two week news cycle turns over you never hear about issues again.

You didn’t answer MY question though, why not a single squeak from OEM buyers, who outnumber DIY by 100:1? Why is there not a single report in r/Alienware? Why hasn’t Puget Systems reported a single issue? No comment from HP Omen users to be found.

Falcon Northwest had no issues.

Thanks, I was trying to remember the name of the other premium builder besides Puget.

 

[ty_ger]

You didn’t answer MY question though, why not a single squeak from OEM buyers, who outnumber DIY by 100:1? Why is there not a single report in r/Alienware? Why hasn’t Puget Systems reported a single issue? No comment from HP Omen users to be found.

Because it isn't common. I did answer. Just because it isn't common doesn't mean its irrelevant. It is a problem. It has already proven to be a problem for no known reason. It's clearly not always the user's fault. It just happens. Does that make you comfortable?



You really should watch the videos and educate yourself before having an opinion. Next thing, you'll be Bill here saying that all these content creators are just making videos for the money.

Influencers? You think Buildzoid is an influencer? Mega level up.

 

[phanbuey]

Nope, don’t have to watch influencers videos to know it’s a huge nothing burger just like last time. Again, Nvidia has shipped 100‘s of thousands of these cards, maybe even millions, and once the two week news cycle turns over you never hear about issues again.

You didn’t answer MY question though, why not a single squeak from OEM buyers, who outnumber DIY by 100:1? Why is there not a single report in r/Alienware? Why hasn’t Puget Systems reported a single issue? No comment from HP Omen users to be found.



Thanks, I was trying to remember the name of the other premium builder besides Puget.

Puget systems did report on melting 4090s, and Alienware and HP cpus are typically so heavily throttled I would be shocked if those cards ever actually hit 100% utilization in any scenario. Not to mention, those buyers don't know/care what a PSU is and what melted - they just smell burning plastic, computer off and back to the store.

 

[Dorek]

And yet in 14 months I haven’t bothered to take a single glance at my 4090‘s power cable.

Maybe I’m not an idiot that doesn’t know how to properly seat a plug I guess?



So we’re back to user error.

Who’d a thunk?

To be fair i got no idea since ive used the provided nvidia cable once and its never melted.

 

[R-T-B]

From 3rd party Cable and was used for the 4090 first. I am not surprised that it melted.

People have this issue under a microscope since the bad results of the 1st gen. All connectors melt under the correct circumstances, including PCIe bog standard. One/two case does not mean there is an issue. We need a larger sample.

 

[Visible Noise]

Because it isn't common. I did answer. Just because it isn't common doesn't mean its irrelevant. It is a problem. It has already proven to be a problem for no known reason.



You really should watch the videos and educate yourself before having an opinion. Next thing, you'll be Bill here saying that all these content creators are just making videos for the money.

Influencers? You think Buildzoid is an influencer? Mega level up.

But yet no explanation from you on why no OEMs are having an issue. If it ”isn’t common“ then these people are hitting odds approaching getting hit by lightning three times. Think about it. Dell sells millions of computers with Nvidia video cards in them, and not a single news report of an issue. But somehow the very tiny part of the market that is DIY is affected.

I’m not a mathematician, but it’s pretty astounding that a design issue could affect such a small and specific subset of cases, where the only variable is who plugged in the cable. You would expect a random distribution, yes? And a random distribution says we should hear about OEM systems having the issue immensely more often - to the point that we may not even hear about a DIY’er ever being affected.

Finally, I notice you had to switch to attacking me instead of my argument. There’s a saying that once you do that you have already lost. That, along with having to work in the morning makes this engagement with you over.

 

[Dorek]

Browsing on X and just see all these testers popping up now.

 

[Visible Noise]

Puget systems did report on melting 4090s

I didn’t hear anything, could you provide a link please?

and Alienware and HP cpus are typically so heavily throttled I would be shocked if those cards ever actually hit 100% utilization in any scenario.

This is false. I can only speak to Alienware, but they provide one click overclocking, along with their own overclocking software - AWCC - and Intel XTU is fully supported with the exception of undervolting (thanks Plundervolt).

There’s a reason why a Alienware R15 with a 13900K and a RTX 4090 comes with a 1300 watt server class PSU. I can hit 800 watts at the wall. “Normal“ gaming load is in the 600w - 700w range.

 

[desiprofessor]

Both things can be true. If the failure rate of these is say 8-10% and the standard plug is ~2%, then you will see this. Usually happens when you push the design to the absolute limit (ahem, Intel).

My 4090 ran fine for 1.5 years before deciding to randomly melt the cable while running a not-that-demanding game (path of exile 2). It's still running fine minus the melted cable, but I know the smell to look out for now lol.

Sorry what do you mean it's still running fine?

You mean there was no damage to the 12hpwr port on the gpu or PSU? Or did you have to get it replaced?

 

[Visible Noise]

People have this issue under a microscope since the bad results of the 1st gen. All connectors melt under the correct circumstances, including PCIe bog standard. One/two case does not mean there is an issue. We need a larger sample.

People fail at common sense when getting bombarded with over the top messaging from every direction.

My advice is step away from social media, take a Zoloft, read a book, and just chill until all the facts are in. Ignore the hype cycle that benefits nothing but the perpetrators agenda.

View attachment 384443

Browsing on X and just see all these testers popping up now.

Interesting, could it be Falcon NW is skilled at installing GPU’s?

Hmmmmm,…

 

[phanbuey]

I didn’t hear anything, could you provide a link please?


This is false. I can only speak to Alienware, but they provide one click overclocking, along with their own overclocking software - AWCC - and Intel XTU is fully supported with the exception of undervolting (thanks Plundervolt).

There’s a reason why a Alienware R15 with a 13900K and a RTX 4090 comes with a 1300 watt server class PSU. I can hit 800 watts at the wall.

Ill hunt down the link/discussion where I saw it... but re: alienware -- the R15 hard throttles a 13900K - - it will apply the overclock with one click and XTU but won't hold it as the chip will just clock down.

- source: GN

A 240 AIO can't handle that chip at stock on an open bench, never mind one that's trying to cool with case exhaust from a restrictive case. Combine that with the battery of dell crapware, those machines consistently bench 10-15% below stock. Nothing they're doing specifically wrong- if I built a rig in that case, trying to cool a 13900K with an exhaust 240 AIO and installed a bunch of questionable quality software on top of it, it would perform exactly the same.

The 1300W PSU is super nice, tho - and you may have a point - that the OEM PSUs being overspecced maybe DO reduce the incidents of melting cables - we don't know. But what we do know is: users have always been dumb, and have always plugged things in questionably -- but we've not seen this much melting/melting discussion ever.

I've seen poorly seated mobo cables, 8pin, 6pin, i've seen LED power plugged into fan headers... I've built 100's of rigs - and you know what happens when you don't plug a 24 pin in properly? It doesn't melt. I've actually never seen/had a cable melt until this cable standard, when my psu/card decided to melt the cable (pretty evenly too)... so if I was to blame something, I wouldn't blame the dumb users -- since that's always been the case - the main thing that's changed is the standard.

^ my cable.

Sorry what do you mean it's still running fine?

You mean there was no damage to the 12hpwr port on the gpu or PSU? Or did you have to get it replaced?

The cable melted the dongle and itself - it very slightly deformed one of the 3 corsair power plugs, but there was no damage to the actual card or PSU thankfully. I shut off the machine pretty quick though the smell of burning plastic was pretty obvious. I replaced it with a normal corsiar 12vhpwr vable and it's been running great (again) no heat or issues so far.

 

[desiprofessor]

Ill hunt down the link/discussion where I saw it... but re: alienware -- the R15 hard throttles a 13900K - - it will apply the overclock with one click and XTU but won't hold it as the chip will just clock down.

View attachment 384444
View attachment 384445
- source: GN

A 240 AIO can't handle that chip at stock on an open bench, never mind one that's trying to cool with case exhaust from a restrictive case. Combine that with the battery of dell crapware, those machines consistently bench 10-15% below stock. Nothing they're doing specifically wrong- if I built a rig in that case, trying to cool a 13900K with an exhaust 240 AIO and installed a bunch of questionable quality software on top of it, it would perform exactly the same.

The 1300W PSU is super nice, tho - and you may have a point - that the OEM PSUs being overspecced maybe DO reduce the incidents of melting cables - we don't know. But what we do know is: users have always been dumb, and have always plugged things in questionably -- but we've not seen this much melting/melting discussion ever.

I've seen poorly seated mobo cables, 8pin, 6pin, i've seen LED power plugged into fan headers... I've built 100's of rigs - and you know what happens when you don't plug a 24 pin in properly? It doesn't melt. I've actually never seen/had a cable melt until this cable standard, when my psu/card decided to melt the cable (pretty evenly too)... so if I was to blame something, I wouldn't blame the dumb users -- since that's always been the case - the main thing that's changed is the standard.


View attachment 384447
^ my cable.



The cable melted the dongle and itself - it very slightly deformed one of the 3 corsair power plugs, but there was no damage to the actual card or PSU thankfully. I shut off the machine pretty quick though the smell of burning plastic was pretty obvious. I replaced it with a normal corsiar 12vhpwr vable and it's been running great (again) no heat or issues so far.

Good to know, did you have your case closed? What kind of smell did you notice. Also do you think it's helpful to put an alert on the 12hpwr pin through HWINFO? There was some stuff about that on reddit about a year ago, which I've done for my 4090, and everyone said to make an alert for if the cable drops below 11.8 volts. Do you use an alert?

 

[nguyen]

Man 11 pages thread about what could have been a line saying, please use a new 12V-2x6 cable with your shiny new 5090, because the old one might be compromised, or pay serious amount of dough for 5090 with per pin sensing like the Asus Astral

In Der8auer video, looks like the 2x8pin PCIE cables on the PSU side are about to melt before the 12V-2x6 on the GPU side, indicating when a serious power draw imbalance across the wires occur, the 3x8pin or 4x8pin PCIE setup are not safe from it either.

I guess paying 20usd more for a new 12V-2x6 cable is too much to ask when shelling out 2000usd+++ for the GPU

 

[phanbuey]

Good to know, did you have your case closed? What kind of smell did you notice. Also do you think it's helpful to put an alert on the 12hpwr pin through HWINFO? There was some stuff about that on reddit about a year ago, which I've done for my 4090, and everyone said to make an alert for if the cable drops below 11.8 volts. Do you use an alert?

Case was closed - but it's a pretty open case in general -- it smelled strong enough to where I thought my neightbor was burning trash for a split second before shutting the rig off. It also was just the one wire that really melted, that connected the psu to the dongle -- with a second one just barely starting to melt on one of the other dongle heads.

It really didn't seem like anything shorted or couldn't take it - it really was just too much power deciding to run through 1-2 of the cables for whatever reason.

I've been touching the new replacement cable when I game, and it's not hot at all. Also i've not tried the alerts, I honestly didn't think it was a real risk until it happened lol.

 

[Visible Noise]

Ill hunt down the link/discussion where I saw it... but re: alienware -- the R15 hard throttles a 13900K - - it will apply the overclock with one click and XTU but won't hold it as the chip will just clock down.

View attachment 384444
View attachment 384445
- source: GN

A 240 AIO can't handle that chip at stock on an open bench, never mind one that's trying to cool with case exhaust from a restrictive case. Combine that with the battery of dell crapware, those machines consistently bench 10-15% below stock.

My experience doesn’t match this at all. I have disabled all the Dell crapware, but when trying out the Monster Hunter benchmark, during the shader compilation process my P-cores were running at 5.7 - 5.8, and E cores I think were at 4.7.

I’ll give Blender a try, although I will be out of town for a few days. How would you feel about keeping me honest in case I forget? Do you know of any logging software besides GPU-Z?

I‘m assuming blender is CPU only? I have the Original Tomb Raider reboot, I think Shadow has a demo with a benchmark.

Edit, here’s my Alienware configuration. Now it’s 2:00 AM, I have to get up for work in five hours

 

[phanbuey]

My experience doesn’t match this at all. I have disabled all the Dell crapware, but when trying out the Monster Hunter benchmark, during the shader compilation process my P-cores were running at 5.7 - 5.8, and E cores I think were at 4.7.

I’ll give Blender a try, although I will be out of town for a few days. How would you feel about keeping me honest in case I forget? Do you know of any logging software besides GPU-Z?

I‘m assuming blender is CPU only? I have the Original Tomb Raider reboot, I think Shadow has a demo with a benchmark.


View attachment 384453

The demo benchmark is one of the earlier builds not comparable to the full game (it's like 40% slower) and the diffferent builds of SOTR will have wildly different results even on the same hardware.

As long as your clocks are staying up, you're good to go

 

[evernessince]

View attachment 384443

Browsing on X and just see all these testers popping up now.

I see two problems with this:

1) Testing in a controlled environment where conditions are the most favorable than they will ever be for the connector is not comparable to field use.
2) We were already aware that this problem doesn't typically manifest itself during assembly so this doesn't confirm nor deny anything.

No one said this problem is widespread but any amount of catastrophic failures to the point where the connector and cable melt are unacceptable for a power cable. The fact that the failures are severe to such a degree alone is enough to warrant a spec change, notwithstanding the fact that the failure rate overall is also higher than 8 pin. It's a two punch combo.

It should not be possible to draw 600w over 1 wire, full stop. If what buildzoid says is true, it's a critical design flaw.

Nope, don’t have to watch influencers videos to know it’s a huge nothing burger just like last time. Let me know when they have voluntarily demonetized their videos, otherwise they are just profiting from a hype cycle. Again, Nvidia has shipped 100‘s of thousands of these cards, maybe even millions, and once the two week news cycle turns over you never hear about issues again.

We've had a steady stream of failing 4090s since launch. Go and watch any of the GPU repair YouTubers, 30 burnt GPUs a week for a single repair shop is not nothing. Particularly considering these instances were near non-existent for 8-pin connectors. GN has already confirmed that the new connector has a higher failure rate and any increase in failure rate of a power connector in unacceptable

But yet no explanation from you on why no OEMs are having an issue. If it ”isn’t common“ then these people are hitting odds approaching getting hit by lightning three times. Think about it. Dell sells millions of computers with Nvidia video cards in them, and not a single news report of an issue. But somehow the very tiny part of the market that is DIY is affected.

I’m not a mathematician, but it’s pretty astounding that a design issue could affect such a small and specific subset of cases, where the only variable is who plugged in the cable. You would expect a random distribution, yes? And a random distribution says we should hear about OEM systems having the issue immensely more often - to the point that we may not even hear about a DIY’er ever being affected.

Finally, I notice you had to switch to attacking me instead of my argument. There’s a saying that once you do that you have already lost. That, along with having to work in the morning makes this engagement with you over.

OEM PC owners aren't knowledgeable enough to isolate the issue down to a specific component, let alone a specific issue. As it turns out, people who build their own PCs are more knowledgeable on average

You seriously making the argument that OEMs are somehow more competent at building than your average PC user? The same companies that don't know how to enable XMP or peel off the M.2 thermal pad sticker, let alone properly cool their own systems? The same companies that will put fans right up against a solid front or side panel?

Yeah I could just use the 12pin dongle with 4 wires that would then go to my PSU 8 pin.

The Order is supposed to come in by March 2nd, so still have time to cancel if I want.

Might as well wait a bit then and see if things shake out a bit before then.