How to fix my graphene heatsink

[hermesa]

The drive is TeamGroup Cardea A440 1TB and it comes with graphene heatsink and aluminium heatsink.I never used the aluminium heatsink because it doesn't do the job about temperatures and instead of that I used it with graphene heatsink + motherboard heatsink and that's the best combo for cooling this drive so far.The problem is that due to many mounting and dismounting the graphene heatsink lost it's ''glue potential'' and now it doesn't stay on the drive anymore... Any ideas how I can reattach it without damaging the motherboard or the drive ? Like some glue/tape or something ?

 

[Solaris17]

Like some glue/tape or something ?

and add another layer?

If you absolutely must maybe tacking opposing edges with a dot of thermal paste to keep it in place might help.

Personally Id consider this lost and move on.

 

[eidairaman1]

Get some thermal expoxy and leave it on there

 

[LabRat 891]

Get some thermal expoxy and leave it on there

Best solution, but too permanent for my personal experiences. -I end up moving drives around a lot.

3M Thermal Adhesive pad would be my first search.
(I'd be tempted to try some of that silicone reusable adhesive 'gecko tape', but it's not meant for the application.)

 

[Bill_Bright]

If you absolutely must maybe tacking opposing edges with a dot of thermal paste to keep it in place might help.

Get some thermal expoxy and leave it on there

Thermal "epoxy" would give me pause. Not that I would ever want to remove the heatsink once properly applied, but epoxy would be considered a permanent bond and thus might damage the chip should you one day wish to remove the heatsink.

There are "adhesive" TIMs (thermal interface materals) often used to mount heatsinks to devices that don't have a heatsink mounting mechanism. Chipsets, for example used to use them alot. So I agree with LabRat 891 and perhaps an adhesive pad or actual adhesive TIM - for a semi-permanent bond. Note this is still an adhesive so does still create a strong bond. For that reason, thermal adhesives are NOT recommended for devices with integrated heat shields like CPUs and GPUs - unless you want to rip the lid off or risk damage the pins.

That said, if certain you want a permanent bond, MasterBond makes some excellent epoxy pastes.

 

[anonuser57]

There shouldn't be any benefit to using the graphene heat spreader if you are also using the heatsink from your motherboard. The point of it is for if you can't use a proper heatsink because you want to put it into a laptop or game console.

 

[damric]

There shouldn't be any benefit to using the graphene heat spreader if you are also using the heatsink from your motherboard. The point of it is for if you can't use a proper heatsink because you want to put it into a laptop or game console.

Yes this. I took the graphene strip off and stuck it to the back side. A440 runs cool anyway

 

[Wirko]

There shouldn't be any benefit to using the graphene heat spreader if you are also using the heatsink from your motherboard. The point of it is for if you can't use a proper heatsink because you want to put it into a laptop or game console.

Agreed, but what about thermal pads? Many SSDs, including my KC3000, and probably your A440 too (same E18 controller) have chips of uneven height, with NAND packages taller than the controller and DRAM. But the controller heats up most. In my opinion the chips should have thermal pads of different thicknesses to compensate for each chip's height.

 

[LabRat 891]

Agreed, but what about thermal pads? Many SSDs, including my KC3000, and probably your A440 too (same E18 controller) have chips of uneven height, with NAND packages taller than the controller and DRAM. But the controller heats up most. In my opinion the chips should have thermal pads of different thicknesses to compensate for each chip's height.

Correct. I've had to cut up and double-up pads before, just for a mediocre thermal bond w/ the controller.

From what little research I've done, the controller is (typically) the only part that actually actively needs cooling (on most consumer SSDs).
NAND performs (minutely) 'better' at warmer tempratures, but the controller will throttle.

For any NVME mounting that allows for the heatsink to 'clamp down'* upon the drive, I use thermal putty now.
'Discovered putty works considerably better than the cheap blue silicone pads, swapping-around drives in NVME<->USB enclosures.




*speaking of...
Most cheapie NVME heatsinks come w/ silicone 'rubber bands' to hold down the heatsink. OP may want to consider similar, if something less-permanent than adhesive is desireable.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Don't forget to look at your case cooling. If your case is not supplying a good "flow" of cool air through the case to move the heat out of and away from the heatsink, you might as well wrap a wool blanket around your devices.

 

[Solaris17]

Thermal "epoxy" would give me pause. Not that I would ever want to remove the heatsink once properly applied, but epoxy would be considered a permanent bond and thus might damage the chip should you one day wish to remove the heatsink.

There are "adhesive" TIMs (thermal interface materals) often used to mount heatsinks to devices that don't have a heatsink mounting mechanism. Chipsets, for example used to use them alot. So I agree with LabRat 891 and perhaps an adhesive pad or actual adhesive TIM - for a semi-permanent bond. Note this is still an adhesive so does still create a strong bond. For that reason, thermal adhesives are NOT recommended for devices with integrated heat shields like CPUs and GPUs - unless you want to rip the lid off or risk damage the pins.

That said, if certain you want a permanent bond, MasterBond makes some excellent epoxy pastes.

I didnt say epoxy as quoted I was very specific.

If you are going to quote me and pull me into a thread and drone about this stuff, atleast make it relevant to the conversation or idea I was having. Thanks.

 

[Bill_Bright]

If you are going to quote me and pull me into a thread and drone about this stuff, atleast make it relevant to the conversation or idea I was having. Thanks.

Gee whiz! Why is everyone so damn defensive around here; wound up so tight they can't wait to pounce on another before really understanding what someone said? And why can no one can dare post an opinion that differs, even in the slightest, from that posted or risk will be taken as a personal insult and reason to then launch their own attack?

Now I get accused of pulling you into a thread when you were already in it before me.

Yes, I quoted you about "thermal paste" - but I also quoted another after you! And it was that other person who suggested "epoxy" - not you. And it was about the epoxy they mentioned, not you, that my comment about epoxy being a permanent bond referred to.

You didn't mention adhesive TIM. I did because IMO, if there is no clamping mechanism to hold a heat sink in place, some form of adhesive is needed. Regular, non-adhesive thermal paste will not hold a heatsink still stationary as, by design, it is not an adhesive. Adhesive TIM will hold the heatsink in place without a clamping mechanism, but the bond typically is not considered permanent.

I thought I was pretty clear on that. Sorry you took such a resentful offense. No offense to either comment was ever intended.

 

[damric]

For any NVME mounting that allows for the heatsink to 'clamp down'* upon the drive, I use thermal putty now.
'Discovered putty works considerably better than the cheap blue silicone pads, swapping-around drives in NVME<->USB enclosures.

Nice. I recently ran out of the old blue thermal pads and switched over to putty myself. First project is VGA backplate for an old Titan X card that has 12 hot VRAM chips on the backside.

 

[DirtyDingusMcgee]

Get another sheet of graphene? They can be had easily. They are not meant for rough handling, so after several applications, they tend to be structurally diminished.

 

[Wirko]

From what little research I've done, the controller is (typically) the only part that actually actively needs cooling (on most consumer SSDs).
NAND performs (minutely) 'better' at warmer tempratures, but the controller will throttle.

Yes, you can see it in thermal images in W1zzard's reviews. Relatively little heat comes from NAND. Also compare the images of SSDs with graphene stickers against the ones without (such as the latest WD SN7100).

The uneven height of chips seems like a stupid design oversight. A possible logical explanation is that there exist NAND chip packages with various stacks of dies (4, 8, 16) and therefore variable height, while the height of controller and DRAM is always the same.

 

[Ruru]

Thermal "epoxy" would give me pause. Not that I would ever want to remove the heatsink once properly applied, but epoxy would be considered a permanent bond and thus might damage the chip should you one day wish to remove the heatsink.

Putting the component to freezer will help to remove a heatsink glued with thermal epoxy. Done that with my 6700 XT since I needed its glued aftermark heatsinks removed.

Maaaaybe not a recommended solution, but hey, it works!

 

[Bill_Bright]

Putting the component to freezer will help to remove a heatsink glued with thermal epoxy.

Hmmm, never thought of that. I have frequently used heat to soften the bond with old, regular TIM. But never cold. Seems counterintuitive to me but will keep that tip in mind. Thanks.

 

[Wirko]

Get another sheet of graphene? They can be had easily. They are not meant for rough handling, so after several applications, they tend to be structurally diminished.

I'm wondering if those stickers have anything to do with real graphene... Graphene is a 2-D crystal structure that is not supposed to withstand deformations like bending. So even if not obviously structurally diminished, they may cease to perform their role of heat conduction.

 

[DirtyDingusMcgee]

I'm wondering if those stickers have anything to do with real graphene... Graphene is a 2-D crystal structure that is not supposed to withstand deformations like bending. So even if not obviously structurally diminished, they may cease to perform their role of heat conduction.

They do contain graphene. Those stickers are usually graphene and copper foil, where as something like TG Kryosheet is mostly just a sheet of graphene.

They are reusable (to a degree), but they are delicate.

I tested this. I got some kryosheet. applied it.....and it worked great. I then removed it, and folded it neatly in half a couple times. Unfolded it, and re-applied. Temps were much worse.

Thermalgrizzly actually does have it on their Kryosheet page that the are not recommended for multiple application.

Op should just buy some of the graphene/copper foil stickers if he plans on frequent re-application.

 

[eidairaman1]

Best solution, but too permanent for my personal experiences. -I end up moving drives around a lot.

3M Thermal Adhesive pad would be my first search.
(I'd be tempted to try some of that silicone reusable adhesive 'gecko tape', but it's not meant for the application.)

Thats the whole point lol

They do contain graphene. Those stickers are usually graphene and copper foil, where as something like TG Kryosheet is mostly just a sheet of graphene.

They are reusable (to a degree), but they are delicate.

I tested this. I got some kryosheet. applied it.....and it worked great. I then removed it, and folded it neatly in half a couple times. Unfolded it, and re-applied. Temps were much worse.

Thermalgrizzly actually does have it on their Kryosheet page that the are not recommended for multiple application.

Op should just buy some of the graphene/copper foil stickers if he plans on frequent re-application.

He needs to learn to not screw with his stuff is what, to me he is being a scab picker.

 

[hermesa]

Don't forget to look at your case cooling. If your case is not supplying a good "flow" of cool air through the case to move the heat out of and away from the heatsink, you might as well wrap a wool blanket around your devices.

My case is on my table (60-70cm from the ground) and it's H6 flow NZXT , 3x120mm intake on the front , 2x140mm Lian Li on the bottom and 2x120mm ehxaust on the top from the AiO , I don't have exhaust on the back but whenever I remove the case glass for troubleshooting and mainaitng something - my hand freezes just using the mouse and fans from the intake on the front blowing onto it. I think the Airflow is much more than enough and I don't even need to put ehxaust on the back.When I put my hand on the back of the case (where 1x120mm fan is missing for exhaust) there is already blowing airflow This drive with graphene heatsink and mobo heatsink keeps like 28-30C idle and 51 max while gaming and 60-70 in stress test. I don't know without graphene heatsink but looks like I will have to try it...

 

[Bill_Bright]

and 2x120mm ehxaust on the top from the AiO

You might want to double check this. While typically "blowhole" (top) fans do exhaust out of the case, many top mounted AiO radiators are mounted so they pull cool air in and through the radiator so ambient cool air is flowing through the radiator instead of heated air from the case interior

I am assuming your bottom mounted fans are intakes, which is good. Your PSU exhausts out the back, but it appears to have its own intake vent so that would have negligible effect on the case air flow.

You certainly have plenty of fans providing the desired positive (over) pressure. But note too much over (or too much negative) pressure can result in stagnant pockets of overheated air. A "slight" positive pressure ensures the incoming air comes in through the filters (instead of every crack, crevice and unused port) but still promote an efficient "flow" of air through the case. Having lots of cool air coming in is great, but the heated air still needs to be exhausted out.

That said, it seems that case does not come with air filters. I won't have a case without removable, washable air filters, but that's just me. As long as you keep watch on the interior to ensure no buildup of heat trapping dust, then clean as necessary, that's what matters.

According to the specs and images I see of your case, the NZXT H6 Flow does support 1 x 120mm fan in back. And certainly your CPU temps of 51°C gaming, 70°C with stress tests are great. But then the CPU has its own efficient AiO cooler and this discussion is about your SSD. Great CPU temps do not suggest all other heat sensitive devices are being adequately cooled. In fact, we seen here where great CPU temps gives some users a false sense of security towards those other heat sensitive devices (VRMs, RAM, chipsets, drives, etc.).

To be sure, I am NOT saying your case cooling is inadequate. I am just suggesting you verify the directions your fans are blowing to ensure you are promoting a good "flow" through the case and your bottom and top fans are not working against each other. "IF" the bottom and top are all intakes, that could easily adversely impact that desired flow. And if that is the case, I would consider either reversing the flow of the top fans, or adding a quality exhaust fan in back.

 

[hermesa]

You might want to double check this. While typically "blowhole" (top) fans do exhaust out of the case, many top mounted AiO radiators are mounted so they pull cool air in and through the radiator so ambient cool air is flowing through the radiator instead of heated air from the case interior

I am assuming your bottom mounted fans are intakes, which is good. Your PSU exhausts out the back, but it appears to have its own intake vent so that would have negligible effect on the case air flow.

You certainly have plenty of fans providing the desired positive (over) pressure. But note too much over (or too much negative) pressure can result in stagnant pockets of overheated air. A "slight" positive pressure ensures the incoming air comes in through the filters (instead of every crack, crevice and unused port) but still promote an efficient "flow" of air through the case. Having lots of cool air coming in is great, but the heated air still needs to be exhausted out.

That said, it seems that case does not come with air filters. I won't have a case without removable, washable air filters, but that's just me. As long as you keep watch on the interior to ensure no buildup of heat trapping dust, then clean as necessary, that's what matters.

According to the specs and images I see of your case, the NZXT H6 Flow does support 1 x 120mm fan in back. And certainly your CPU temps of 51°C gaming, 70°C with stress tests are great. But then the CPU has its own efficient AiO cooler and this discussion is about your SSD. Great CPU temps do not suggest all other heat sensitive devices are being adequately cooled. In fact, we seen here where great CPU temps gives some users a false sense of security towards those other heat sensitive devices (VRMs, RAM, chipsets, drives, etc.).

To be sure, I am NOT saying your case cooling is inadequate. I am just suggesting you verify the directions your fans are blowing to ensure you are promoting a good "flow" through the case and your bottom and top fans are not working against each other. "IF" the bottom and top are all intakes, that could easily adversely impact that desired flow. And if that is the case, I would consider either reversing the flow of the top fans, or adding a quality exhaust fan in back.

Well you are absolutely right. But my AiO is mounted as it should be at least ''by manual'' ,even if that means taking hot air from the box and ehxausting it out of the box without providing any ''cool'' air for the radiator from outside. In my scenario there is not much hot air in my case at all, because none of my components provides such a heat that this would be a problem like for example if I had cpu aircooler I think. The most hot components right now in my case is my GPU backplate and the transistor area (considering I have 55C in gaming with 80C hotspot which in my case for my GPU this occured to be normal) and the AiO pump unit ) - My case airflow right now is just as it is on this picture that I attached below ,except I don't have a fan on the back as I mentioned before (right top if you are looking on the picture in profile so there are no confusion ) which is strange because whenever I put my hand there I can feel good pressure even without a fan being there.I mean , cold air is moving from the front and partially from the bottom(because my gpu doesn't reach more than 50C in heavy gaming at 1440p with 100% utilization) And this cold air is moving trought the intake AiO fans from the inside of the case which fans are exhausting it trough the top and the back of the case. And yes - my 2x140mm Lian Li fans on the bottom are intaking air and blowing it directly onto the GPU fans.I tried to do the build from the NZXT H6 flow official page and in the end it's great.Even without these 2x140mm fans my gpu never reached more than 55C in gaming and 59 in stress tests but I installed them more for aesthetics than for cooling but they are superb fans anyway. I guess this AiO (even if its 240mm and not 360mm designed for bigger case) is manufactured to be used with good airflow cases rather than bad ones where the fans direction wheter it is intake or ehxaust could matter.
To be honest these 3x120 nzxt fans on the front of the case are pretty good and provide pretty strong air pressure on the inside. I had many PC cases and never saw such a good airflow like this one. I had opportunity to buy even more expenisive but naah , aestethics of other cases didn't liked very much to me This one is both aestethically good and effective.Maybe it was more optimized for aircoolers but hey - it performs even greater with this AiO.


Sorry for my english If my writing is confusing you but it's not my native

 

[Wirko]

Hmmm, never thought of that. I have frequently used heat to soften the bond with old, regular TIM. But never cold. Seems counterintuitive to me but will keep that tip in mind. Thanks.

Here's an intuitive explanation: the glue can't withstand the cold, and it cracks. I don't know if it's correct but seems more likely if the glue is hard, not elastic.

 

[9087125]

Ill just add:

I have never bothered with any case air filters of any kind, the logic being that dust is truly insidious and gets in no matter what and the filters would just be more clutter and more stuff to clean. Just make sure there is a ballpark balanced airflow which is pretty easy to do.

So every 2-3weeks i quickly pop the side case and blast the insides with my data vac, the build up of dust is small enough that its very manageable, i.e just falls to the desk and floor which get cleaned weekly. Then every few months I run a lite microfiber cloth over everything, using a combo of water/IPA on a damp cloth and toothbrushes to get everything nice and clean. Then every few months pop the other side case and blast it out and dry wipe with a cloth. The problem with dust is it sticks well to surfaces and needs a bit of mechanical force to loosen. Only downside potentially is case sides may wear out. Been doing that on my vista machine no issues with it's old fashion case.

Anyway, my case insides literally look brand new every day .
You could eat off my case fans Im always on the look out for specs of dust on the super transparent glass case under the near 1000lumens of RGB , thats the tell tale signs the datavac needs to come out.