It's happening again, melting 12v high pwr connectors

[onemanhitsquad]

2 x 4090 FE , 1 x 4080 FE , and a 3090 FE in the house...no issues with any of them , the 3090 FE was run a long time with a robust overclock with no issues.

 

[eidairaman1]

2 x 4090 FE , 1 x 4080 FE , and a 3090 FE in the house...no issues with any of them , the 3090 FE was run a long time with a robust overclock with no issues.

Yeah yet it's a widespread problem.

 

[onemanhitsquad]

Yeah yet it's a widespread problem.

...too bad for them .

 

[MxPhenom 216]

View attachment 387326

Sapphire card has the Meltex connector on the top under a removable cover. They apparently use fuses to protect over-current on the cable... why?? Who wants to RMA their card if the cable becomes unbalanced? Why not just monitor with shunts and act on an imbalance with software?? Maybe it does that too? Weird.

Ideally a good quality PSU would have line balancing on the PSU side

 

[A Computer Guy]

Ideally a good quality PSU would have line balancing on the PSU side

Is that a real thing? Until the melting connector issue occurred I've never heard of PSU's having that feature before.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

Is that a real thing? Until the melting connector issue occurred I've never heard of PSU's having that feature before.

Well one example i know of for sure is that Asus Thor PSUs have it for their 12VHPWR connector. Im making an assumption here, but I would think some higher quality of ATX 3.0/3.1 PSUs with the 12VHPWR native has some kind of line balancing on the PSU side. I can't imagine Asus being the only one.

 

[harm9963]

Well one example i know of for sure is that Asus Thor PSUs have it for their 12VHPWR connector. Im making an assumption here, but I would think some higher quality of ATX 3.0/3.1 PSUs with the 12VHPWR native has some kind of line balancing on the PSU side. I can't imagine Asus being the only one.

I have a Seasonic Prime TX 1600 3.1, the way I know is with a clamp meter , with a WireView , clamp meter shows all 6 wires at 6 amps , without WireView , balance is gone , same thing JTC experience with Elmorlads device .

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[MxPhenom 216]

I have a Seasonic Prime TX 1600 3.1, the way I know is with a clamp meter , with a WireView , clamp meter shows all 6 wires at 6 amps , without WireView , balance is gone , same thing JTC experience with Elmorlads device .

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You are running a 4090 too correct? Non FE?

 

[harm9963]

You are running a 4090 too correct? Non FE?

In my spec, a ZOTAC AMP XTREME AIRO 4090

 

[lexluthermiester]

This is true but they are also free to (and do) set stipulations to getting said dies.

It's one reason why you don't see any cards with old style PCI-e connectors, even where they could be used.

From what I understand it doesn't quite work that way, because there were 4000 series cards with PCIe 8pin connectors. However, you're far off either.

 

[R-T-B]

From what I understand it doesn't quite work that way, because there were 4000 series cards with PCIe 8pin connectors. However, you're far off either.

It's possible they allow it, but I imagine it comes with a hefty pricing penalty or something such.

 

[lexluthermiester]

It's possible they allow it, but I imagine it comes with a hefty pricing penalty or something such.

Maybe that's why EVGA shut down? They were tired of fighting NVidia on their special brand of BS.

Regardless, I think AIB's have a lot more freedom than is commonly believed.

 

[londiste]

Regardless, I think AIB's have a lot more freedom than is commonly believed.

I bet this largely comes down to AIB having to design their own PCB layout with what today is a pretty heavy-duty VRM and capricious connections to memory with some distance requirements sprinkled on for good fun. And most just going "hell no" and using reference or at least most of the reference design. And if they should fuck up then Nvidia goes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[lexluthermiester]

From what I understand it doesn't quite work that way, because there were 4000 series cards with PCIe 8pin connectors. However, you're not far off either.

@R-T-B
I omitted a word, sorry about that.

 

[R-T-B]

@R-T-B
I omitted a word, sorry about that.

I figured it out heh.

 

[Werwulf]

I can't get over the absurdity of someone selling you a product with a flexible cable and then warning you you cannot create *any* bend within 35mm of the connector. A connector that needs to be inserted into a horizontal plug. What exactly are you expecting the end-user to do? Construct an elaborate series of hooks or supports? Mount their power-supply on a stand directly opposite the GPU? It's like selling you a pair of shoes and then warning you they may be damaged if used on a rough surface. This is from a GPU manufacturer btw, unsure which one. It's clear all these companies think 12VHPWR is absolute dogwater and are trying to push responsibility/blame down to the end-user with nonsense usage recommendations.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Probably not. Google (which sucks) gives very few results.

Oh?

NVIDIA Power Cables Are Melting, This May Be Why

NVIDIA has recently released their lineup of 40-series graphics cards, with a novel generation of power connectors called 12VHPWR. See, the previous-generation 8-pin connectors were no longer enoug…

hackaday.com

be quiet! Dark Power PSU Owner Reports Melting of 12VHPWR Connector

A member of the amusingly named and low populated r/4090Burning subreddit has reported a strange incident where the PSU side of his 12VHPWR connector had melted. Shiftyeyes67k shared his equipment's plight two days ago and included two photos with his story: "Started noticing a smell coming from...

www.techpowerup.com

The melting jack problems STARTED with the 3090 and included the 3090ti and even the 3080ti. EVGA had a huge problem with them.

Anyone not finding that information is not looking properly.

3090, in 2022
This forum, linking to thin cables causing fires with video links
4090, with Nvidia confirming at least 50 instances
2022 Hackaday findings that pins and connectors didn't have correct cross sectional area

Wow....this same exact thread in 2023.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it? I know some of these are copying yours...but this is Nvidia releasing known garbage and testing exactly what they have to do to have people not buy whatever they put out. 3 generations in a row...all to save almost nothing in components on a card that costs several thousand dollars.

 

[jnv11]

I just realized that the "FE" in RTX 4090 FE could stand for "Fire Edition" or "Flame Edition".

/s

 

[x4it3n]

I just realized that the "FE" in RTX 4090 FE could stand for "Fire Edition" or "Flame Edition".

/s

F***-up Edition works too

 

[eidairaman1]

I just realized that the "FE" in RTX 4090 FE could stand for "Fire Edition" or "Flame Edition".

/s

Failure Edition

Fuck-up Edition works too

Fixed it for you

 

[Vayra86]

This thread has gone from wire safety margin, to shunt resistor, cooling down the actual cable with a fan then latest how to bend the cable properly. We all need to go on EWIS (Electrical Wiring Interconnect System) course before using this connector

I just know we're gonna hit page 50 soon. 50 pages of copium fighting dosages of reality.
I can almost smell it! Hmmm. Burnt plastic!

 

[Chomiq]

Oh?

NVIDIA Power Cables Are Melting, This May Be Why

NVIDIA has recently released their lineup of 40-series graphics cards, with a novel generation of power connectors called 12VHPWR. See, the previous-generation 8-pin connectors were no longer enoug…

hackaday.com

be quiet! Dark Power PSU Owner Reports Melting of 12VHPWR Connector

A member of the amusingly named and low populated r/4090Burning subreddit has reported a strange incident where the PSU side of his 12VHPWR connector had melted. Shiftyeyes67k shared his equipment's plight two days ago and included two photos with his story: "Started noticing a smell coming from...

www.techpowerup.com

The melting jack problems STARTED with the 3090 and included the 3090ti and even the 3080ti. EVGA had a huge problem with them.

Anyone not finding that information is not looking properly.

3080 Ti FE, nothing melted with OEM (Seasonic) 2x8pin to 12-pin cable, been going strong for 2 3 years (or is it 3 now, can't remember Jesus, it's been 3 years already, time sure flies).

3090 Ti was the one that came up with 12VHPWR but it wasn't until 4090 when the melting started. 40 series cards that use standard 8-pin connectors are lower tier with much lower power draw, plus we haven't really seen any melting on something other than a 4090 before the 50 series showed up.

 

[londiste]

I think that this much focus on connector is misplaced. Yes, it had teething problems and there is precious little safety margin compared to old 8-pin but is that the cause of the meltdowns we are seeing? The 12-pin on 30x0 was effectively the exact same design and these did not melt in any significant amounts. There were a few examples that largely did boil down to user error and big splash in hardware news. The real problem started with 4090 and it wasn't exactly clear, why. 3090Ti was running the same 450W through it and 3080Ti/3090 with 350W were not really that far off.

The "big blob of 12V" design on card side that started with 4090 seems to explain the cause much more than the connector itself. For example take that der8auer's example where there were two wires that had 20A going through them. The connector part of the problem is why can there be a mismatch of current on wires to this degree? It isn't wires (hopefully) so connector and different enough contact on individual pins that sends power across ones with lower resistance? What kind of difference would there need to be for this to happen?

On mitigation side however, the connector really does not matter. And that is a much more crucial bit. If on the card the input power ends up in "big blob of 12V" the 8-pin connectors would fare better hopefully due to better contact. But if there is a similar mismatch of current, 20+A is still enough power to melt these as well. And I think this is the real problem here that Nvidia should get beaten up about.

 

[LittleBro]

I just know we're gonna hit page 50 soon. 50 pages of copium fighting dosages of reality.
I can almost smell it! Hmmm. Burnt plastic!

Real cause is already known.

You can apply primitive NxWhy method (basic analyzing method that 3-4 years old children apply to test their parents patience).

Connector specification (design) is the main problem here IMHO. It was created with almost no safety margin in mind. It's living on the edge. Many of you here think the solution would be to monitor per pin current and adjust current to be evenly distributed among pins. Lack of this feature is not real root cause here, that is way how to workaround current problem. Of course, current distribution control increases safety a lot, but had the pin resistances not vary that much, connector would be fine even without workarounds in place.

 

[Werwulf]

Real cause is already known.

You can apply primitive NxWhy method (basic analyzing method that 3-4 years old children apply to test their parents patience).

Connector specification (design) is the main problem here IMHO. It was created with almost no safety margin in mind. It's living on the edge. Many of you here think the solution would be to monitor per pin current and adjust current to be evenly distributed among pins. Lack of this feature is not real root cause here, that is way how to workaround current problem. Of course, current distribution control increases safety a lot, but had the pin resistances not vary that much, connector would be fine even without workarounds in place.

Yeah if you added a safety mechanism to all 5090s to shutdown when a pin goes out of spec, people's cards would be shutting down all the time

There are already Asus Astral owners getting annoyed because the software is essentially telling them they need to replace their cable because even a small imbalance puts a pin in the red.