Cooling problems persist on LGA1700

[fusseli]

I have a Gigbyte Aorus Z790 Elite X motherboard (wouldn't buy again, I miss Asus) and 14700k hits 100C and throttles.

I have tried with and without a Thermalright cpu pressure plate for LGA1700, no change.

I have re-installed the AIO cpu block several times, and upgraded from a 280mm to a 360mm AIO, and no change.

Any ideas?

 

[ShrimpBrime]

100c doing what?
What AIO is it?
Is the bios update to date?
Is the ME firmware up to date?
Is the ME Software up to date?
Is Windows install up to date?
What is the thermal paste you are using?
Have you tried a different paste?
Does the paste application have good coverage?
Is there a little, moderate, or a lot of push out?
What bios settings have you changed?
Have you tested all defaults, clear cmos?
Have you tried with XMP enabled vs disabled?
Have you checked the pump speeds?
Does the pump sound audible?
Have you tried different fan speeds?
After a short period of time, do the tubes feel warm?
After a short period of time Does the radiator feel warm.
After a longer time Does the tubed feel cool or room temp?
After a longer time Does the radiator feel cool or room temp?
Have you tried all the under-volt hoopla?
Have you tried lowering frequency of any cores?
Have you tried disabling any unused cores?
Would any frequency or disabling of cores be appealing to lower temps and power usage?
Would you consider a custom loop for one of the hottest processors on the market?

Please fill out this form so I can better answer the question, "any ideas"

Thanks!

 

[N/A]

only one way, delid.

 

[andreas_]

maybe the cpu have a problem (Intel-disaster 13 & 14 th. gen)

 

[Onasi]

I second Shrimps inquiry for more data. This just isn’t enough. That being said, there is a possibility, however small and unlikely, that you got a defective chip in some way (insert a joke about all 13-14 gen chips being defective). Whether it’s the CPU itself or a faulty pairing between the chip and the IHS - hard to say. But, realistically, even a 14700K should not hit 100C under a 360mm AIO if everything is mounted correctly and it runs default Intel stock settings, and not whatever bullshit MCE/no limits mode a lot of boards like to enable by default.

 

[fusseli]

100c doing what?
What AIO is it?
Is the bios update to date?
Is the ME firmware up to date?
Is the ME Software up to date?
Is Windows install up to date?
What is the thermal paste you are using?
Have you tried a different paste?
Does the paste application have good coverage?
Is there a little, moderate, or a lot of push out?
What bios settings have you changed?
Have you tested all defaults, clear cmos?
Have you tried with XMP enabled vs disabled?
Have you checked the pump speeds?
Does the pump sound audible?
Have you tried different fan speeds?
After a short period of time, do the tubes feel warm?
After a short period of time Does the radiator feel warm.
After a longer time Does the tubed feel cool or room temp?
After a longer time Does the radiator feel cool or room temp?
Have you tried all the under-volt hoopla?
Have you tried lowering frequency of any cores?
Have you tried disabling any unused cores?
Would any frequency or disabling of cores be appealing to lower temps and power usage?
Would you consider a custom loop for one of the hottest processors on the market?

Please fill out this form so I can better answer the question, "any ideas"

Thanks!

Thanks for the inputs!

It's at the stock settings with gigabyte "optimization" mode and XMP enabled. The "unleashed" or "6ghz" or any other automatic settings aren't stable (freeze or hangs) so I don't run them.

Corsair H150i elite cappelix xt, thermal paste it came with. In the H115i I had before I tried both the stock paste and Thermalright TF7 that came with the cpu plate. Some/moderate paste leaked out any of the times. I always set the pump at full speed and let the fans throttle with cpu temp. It does warm up, and blows hot air under load (stress benchmark or gaming). Timespy reports 91C, gaming can be 65-75C, and any stress test like cpu-z bounces 99C-100C. Always has. I was stuck on my smallish cases for a while trying to squeeze in the 7900xt and a 280mm AIO, I recently flipped my Corsair 4000D for a 3500X which has more case fans and fits the 360mm AIO (got a $120 refurb). Reading around nobody seems to support a giant case and a 420mm AIO since the improvement is like 1%.

Bios/ME/windows are all latest and up to date. Previous bios were flaky, but F7 seems to have been stable. I have done a full bios reset, had to actually, since gigbyte was not stable taking previous settings across bios updates, so I do a full reset each bios upgrade. I have not messed with trying to undervolt. The system overall runs fine and games great so I'm not too worried. Noticing the high temps and the low cpu scores compared to what some people are getting on 14th gen is what renewed my interest in fine tuning this issue. I'm guessing it would run a few percent faster if it weren't throttling.

My work pc I built has a 13900KS and Maximus Hero that runs cool (360mm AIO / Corsair H150i), OCs to 6.1ghz, and scores like 980ish in cpu-z, which is also a daily reminder that something isn't quite right on this build. Having run it for a little over a year now I have always been blaming the gigabyte mobo in the back of my mind since it's been a rocky half dozen bios updates along the way but have thought of flipping it for an Asus Hero or similar, but the $$$ isn't well justified.

 

[Toothless]

Might want to snag a contact frame. Helped my 14900k with a Ryujin II. Sits around 60-70c in R23 at 253w.

 

[fusseli]

Might want to snag a contact frame. Helped my 14900k with a Ryujin II. Sits around 60-70c in R23 at 253w.

I have tried with and without one, I have this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BG5NSHL4

 

[Toothless]

I have tried with and without one, I have this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BG5NSHL4

Have you checked if the pump is running? One area of the radiator will be scorching with other parts cold to touch. I had an issue with the Ryujin at first after a rebuild where due to a software update it wasn't actually moving anything. Corsair sure isn't much better than Asus in that department.

 

[ir_cow]

With Intel Defaults, it shouldn't pass 80c at the most. 160w isn't that much for a AIO. Toothless has the right idea, is the cooler even working

 

[fusseli]

Have you checked if the pump is running? One area of the radiator will be scorching with other parts cold to touch. I had an issue with the Ryujin at first after a rebuild where due to a software update it wasn't actually moving anything. Corsair sure isn't much better than Asus in that department.

It seems to be running. Everything warms up and the pump speed is reported at 2600 rpm.

I tried turning off gigabyte "optimization" in bios and running "intel performance" instead, which is the closest description to stock/default there is, cpu-z scores drop a little and it settles to about 94C in the all core stress test.

This running hot behavior is virtually identical to what I've seen the past year through all of the bios updates and the old AIO. This new 360mm has only been in there a day and it's all behaving very similar, maybe slightly cooler. And again, with the old AIO I tried with and without contact plate and different paste. I don't have the contact plate in right now, I could try swapping it back in again with the TF7 paste.

 

[Toothless]

It seems to be running. Everything warms up and the pump speed is reported at 2800 rpm.

I tried turning off gigabyte "optimization" in bios and running "intel performance" instead, which is the closest description to stock/default there is, cpu-z scores drop a little and it settles to about 94C in the all core stress test.

This running hot behavior is virtually identical to what I've seen the past year through all of the bios updates and the old AIO. This new 360mm has only been in there a day and it's all behaving very similar, maybe slightly cooler. And again, with the old AIO I tried with and without contact plate and different paste. I don't have the contact plate in right now, I could try swapping it back in again with the TF7 paste.

I'd run contact frame and tune fan profiles. Depends on which fans you have for that noise/performance sweet spot. P12 ARGB is what I've got on mine and it stays quiet all the way around.

 

[fusseli]

I'd run contact frame and tune fan profiles. Depends on which fans you have for that noise/performance sweet spot. P12 ARGB is what I've got on mine and it stays quiet all the way around.

I'll swap it back in later this week and try a more aggressive fan profile on the H150i

 

[InVasMani]

Shouldn't throttle badly with that setup realistically. Seems like either some stubborn bios setting or settings or mounting issue. I'd also check Dual Tau Boost and Intel Dynamic Tuning Technology settings in bios. Pretty sure one of those made huge difference to this erratic micro stutter behavior I had happening for awhile that was a stubborn nuisance similar to some earlier NVIDIA GPU's with the boost clocks that would get jerky and ping-pong like crazy between regular clocks and boost clocks.

It's a bit harder to keep cool than a 14700K between the 4 extra E cores and higher clocked P cores and E cores, but even so with 360 AIO that really shouldn't be any significant concern at or close to stock. If you can bump up the pump speed you probably might as well provided it isn't noisy.

Are you sure it's heat throttling and not some other "power saving bs" happening? That's the proper way to describe it you bought a Intel chip after all though they are good with tuning at idle actually in reality. It would make a hell of a hardware router with power limits and undervolting and maybe touch of dropped BCLK if you wanna get more retro GHz expectation levels.

 

[fusseli]

Shouldn't throttle badly with that setup realistically. Seems like either some stubborn bios setting or settings or mounting issue. I'd also check Dual Tau Boost and Intel Dynamic Tuning Technology settings in bios. Pretty sure one of those made huge difference to this erratic micro stutter behavior I had happening for awhile that was a stubborn nuisance similar to some earlier NVIDIA GPU's with the boost clocks that would get jerky and ping-pong like crazy between regular clocks and boost clocks.

It's a bit harder to keep cool than a 14700K between the 4 extra E cores and higher clocked P cores and E cores, but even so with 360 AIO that really shouldn't be any significant concern at or close to stock. If you can bump up the pump speed you probably might as well provided it isn't noisy.

Are you sure it's heat throttling and not some other "power saving bs" happening? That's the proper way to describe it you bought a Intel chip after all though they are good with tuning at idle actually in reality. It would make a hell of a hardware router with power limits and undervolting and maybe touch of dropped BCLK if you wanna get more retro GHz expectation levels.

That's exactly my concern, I have little confidence in this GB board with how erratic all of the bios updates and subsequent instability had been. This bios F7 has been stable but it's clearly not running quite right, apparently.

What is Dual Tau Boost? I have DTT and APO enabled, I think

Meanwhile my 7900xtx games OCed at 59C

 

[stahlhart]

maybe the cpu have a problem (Intel-disaster 13 & 14 th. gen)

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for playing.

 

[nomdeplume]

That's exactly my concern, I have little confidence in this GB board with how erratic all of the bios updates and subsequent instability had been.

Asus BIOS and one of their higher end boards that have been resistant to changes further down the line. Sounds like Gigabyte QA equipment has passed over a physical default.

 

[InVasMani]

That's exactly my concern, I have little confidence in this GB board with how erratic all of the bios updates and subsequent instability had been. This bios F7 has been stable but it's clearly not running quite right, apparently.

What is Dual Tau Boost? I have DTT and APO enabled, I think

Meanwhile my 7900xtx games OCed at 59C

I'll just quote the AI since it does a pretty reasonable job explaining it. Some of that response is me inferring the it's complicated relationship.

Dual Tau Boost​

Dual Tau Boost is a feature that allows for two different power limits (PL1 and PL2) and two different time limits (Tau1 and Tau2) for the CPU. This feature is designed to optimize performance and power efficiency by dynamically adjusting the power limits based on the workload. Here's how it works:

• PL1 and Tau1: These are the long-term power limit and duration. PL1 is the sustained power limit that the CPU can maintain indefinitely, while Tau1 is the duration for which this power limit is applied.
• PL2 and Tau2: These are the short-term power limit and duration. PL2 is the higher power limit that the CPU can use for short bursts of performance, while Tau2 is the duration for which this higher power limit is applied.

By having two sets of power limits and durations, Dual Tau Boost can provide a balance between sustained performance and short bursts of high performance2.

Intel Dynamic Tuning Technology​

Intel Dynamic Tuning Technology (DTT) is a power and thermal management solution that dynamically adjusts the power and thermal limits of the CPU based on the current workload and thermal conditions. This technology aims to optimize performance, reduce fan noise, and prevent overheating by making real-time adjustments to the CPU's power and thermal settings4.

Impact on P-Cores and E-Cores​

P-Cores (Performance Cores) and E-Cores (Efficiency Cores) are part of Intel's hybrid architecture, designed to balance performance and power efficiency:

• P-Cores: These cores are optimized for high performance and are used for demanding tasks such as gaming, video editing, and 3D rendering. They have higher clock speeds and larger caches, making them ideal for single-threaded performance6.
• E-Cores: These cores are optimized for power efficiency and are used for background tasks and lighter workloads. They consume less power and are designed to handle multi-threaded tasks efficiently6.

Behavior and Micro Stutter​

• Dual Tau Boost: By dynamically adjusting the power limits, Dual Tau Boost can help manage the performance of P-Cores and E-Cores more effectively. This can reduce the likelihood of micro stutter by ensuring that the CPU has enough power to handle sudden spikes in workload without causing performance drops2.
• Intel Dynamic Tuning Technology: DTT can help optimize the performance of P-Cores and E-Cores by adjusting power and thermal limits in real-time. This can prevent thermal throttling and ensure smooth performance, reducing the chances of micro stutter4.

By leveraging these technologies, you can achieve a balance between performance and power efficiency, ensuring smooth and responsive system behavior.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Thanks for the inputs!

It's at the stock settings with gigabyte "optimization" mode and XMP enabled. The "unleashed" or "6ghz" or any other automatic settings aren't stable (freeze or hangs) so I don't run them.

Corsair H150i elite cappelix xt, thermal paste it came with. In the H115i I had before I tried both the stock paste and Thermalright TF7 that came with the cpu plate. Some/moderate paste leaked out any of the times. I always set the pump at full speed and let the fans throttle with cpu temp. It does warm up, and blows hot air under load (stress benchmark or gaming). Timespy reports 91C, gaming can be 65-75C, and any stress test like cpu-z bounces 99C-100C. Always has. I was stuck on my smallish cases for a while trying to squeeze in the 7900xt and a 280mm AIO, I recently flipped my Corsair 4000D for a 3500X which has more case fans and fits the 360mm AIO (got a $120 refurb). Reading around nobody seems to support a giant case and a 420mm AIO since the improvement is like 1%.

Bios/ME/windows are all latest and up to date. Previous bios were flaky, but F7 seems to have been stable. I have done a full bios reset, had to actually, since gigbyte was not stable taking previous settings across bios updates, so I do a full reset each bios upgrade. I have not messed with trying to undervolt. The system overall runs fine and games great so I'm not too worried. Noticing the high temps and the low cpu scores compared to what some people are getting on 14th gen is what renewed my interest in fine tuning this issue. I'm guessing it would run a few percent faster if it weren't throttling.

My work pc I built has a 13900KS and Maximus Hero that runs cool (360mm AIO / Corsair H150i), OCs to 6.1ghz, and scores like 980ish in cpu-z, which is also a daily reminder that something isn't quite right on this build. Having run it for a little over a year now I have always been blaming the gigabyte mobo in the back of my mind since it's been a rocky half dozen bios updates along the way but have thought of flipping it for an Asus Hero or similar, but the $$$ isn't well justified.

Sorry for the late reply.

What you describe seems accurate to the cooling type. AIO (nearly all of them) is entry level water cooling and to prove this fact, some large air coolers seem to be just as effective.

Don't spend money on the cooling further. Time Spy is also an all core load for the cpu render, so 91c is decent.

You want all the performance you can get up to 100c. That is the way it is designed. No worries, 253w isn't easy to move. That's a lot of thermals.

Also, 14700K is faster than a 13900K. I'm sure the 13900KS is getting near 100c at 6.1ghz all core. I know my 14700K isn't sustaining that without chilling though. So I am amazed yours can.

 

[InVasMani]

I'm doing 5.9 all core atm on a 14700K with a 240 AIO in push/pull, but I did drop the E cores down to do so and isn't exactly rock solid stable, but was able to run CPU-Z bench at all core 5.9GHz. If you drop the ring down lower it can help push core up a bit same with memory and if bump up the memory imc voltage some it can help a little. I only have ICC max set to 301A though and max temp set for 95C I could technically push both higher to what Intel says for max, but it's not a bad safety net to leave. I'm sure a 360 AIO would help a good bit further when really pushing it aggressively, but not too bad for a cheap 240 AIO. I got within like 1 point shy of a 14900KS in ST in CPU-Z benchmark. MT is a little bit less impressive, but still above a 5950x and plenty sufficient. The temp after a run of CPU-Z benchmark at all core 5.9GHz is like 69c. I haven't done any chilling, but ambient temps here right now aren't bad.

 

[fusseli]

Sorry for the late reply.

What you describe seems accurate to the cooling type. AIO (nearly all of them) is entry level water cooling and to prove this fact, some large air coolers seem to be just as effective.

Don't spend money on the cooling further. Time Spy is also an all core load for the cpu render, so 91c is decent.

You want all the performance you can get up to 100c. That is the way it is designed. No worries, 253w isn't easy to move. That's a lot of thermals.

Also, 14700K is faster than a 13900K. I'm sure the 13900KS is getting near 100c at 6.1ghz all core. I know my 14700K isn't sustaining that without chilling though. So I am amazed yours can.

The 13900KS is at 5.4 or 5.6 all-core, I don't remember. It's only 6.1 2-cores and 5.6 or 5.8 for 8-core or something along those lines. It is perfect for mixed workloads that vary from ST to MT day by day. What sticks with me is my past offense to how expensive high end MBs are these days, so for home/gaming use the lower-mid GB is what I went with. I can't say it's not a regret comparing the rocky road of my 14700k and GB vs. the 13900KS and high-end Asus.

And yeah, I am also glad I didn't spend more money on a giant case and 420mm AIO because I'd be a couple hundred bucks farther in with probably no difference. The MB on the other hand, maybe $500-$600 would have been worth it compared to the $300 I spent on the GB that I can't wait to get rid of. I may have even ditched it already if the gains of 9800X3D or Ultra 9 285 would be worth more than 1-2% in gaming to me.

 

[stahlhart]

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer compared to others here, and I pretty much only have experience with Asus and MSI as far as modern BIOSes are concerned, but a few things that have helped me out here:

-- if it exists in your BIOS, disable any sort of overclocking AI like "multi core enhancement" and make all of the overclocking decisions yourself
-- cap your Vcore to a safe level, if the BIOS supports it (I have mine at 1400mV)
-- excessive amounts of SA voltage are not necessary if you are not trying to hit extremes with memory; I see a lot of folks online pushing this up to 1.3V-1.4V and that can only be adding to heat generated. I set mine to offset mode with voltage on auto; it stays at a little less than 0.9V and doesn't appear to cause any trouble. Memory is at the highest speed the board supports, 6400MHz
-- use the upper points of your V/f curve to cap Vcore at higher multipliers; this will require thorough stability testing but will keep the BIOS from overdoing it

Cooling in the last post is a 360 AIO.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

The 13900KS is at 5.4 or 5.6 all-core, I don't remember. It's only 6.1 2-cores and 5.6 or 5.8 for 8-core or something along those lines. It is perfect for mixed workloads that vary from ST to MT day by day. What sticks with me is my past offense to how expensive high end MBs are these days, so for home/gaming use the lower-mid GB is what I went with. I can't say it's not a regret comparing the rocky road of my 14700k and GB vs. the 13900KS and high-end Asus.

And yeah, I am also glad I didn't spend more money on a giant case and 420mm AIO because I'd be a couple hundred bucks farther in with probably no difference. The MB on the other hand, maybe $500-$600 would have been worth it compared to the $300 I spent on the GB that I can't wait to get rid of. I may have even ditched it already if the gains of 9800X3D or Ultra 9 285 would be worth more than 1-2% in gaming to me.

Sustained all core loads for the 13900KS will meet the lowest clocked core. The all core load is only 5.4ghz on that cpu.

I wonder if the Gigabyte profile is just a little power aggressive on the 14700K outfit.

 

[fusseli]

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer compared to others here, and I pretty much only have experience with Asus and MSI as far as modern BIOSes are concerned, but a few things that have helped me out here:

-- if it exists in your BIOS, disable any sort of overclocking AI like "multi core enhancement" and make all of the overclocking decisions yourself
-- cap your Vcore to a safe level, if the BIOS supports it (I have mine at 1400mV)
-- excessive amounts of SA voltage are not necessary if you are not trying to hit extremes with memory; I see a lot of folks online pushing this up to 1.3V-1.4V and that can only be adding to heat generated. I set mine to offset mode with voltage on auto; it stays at a little less than 0.9V and doesn't appear to cause any trouble. Memory is at the highest speed the board supports, 6400MHz
-- use the upper points of your V/f curve to cap Vcore at higher multipliers; this will require thorough stability testing but will keep the BIOS from overdoing it

Cooling in the last post is a 360 AIO.

When I built this rig a year ago I was chasing ram speeds of 7800, and I got 7400 stable with a lot of testing and tweaking. Then the bios updates caused instability so I stopped trying and have been stable on 7200 with default SA ever since.

Sustained all core loads for the 13900KS will meet the lowest clocked core. The all core load is only 5.4ghz on that cpu.

I wonder if the Gigabyte profile is just a little power aggressive on the 14700K outfit.

Yeah I am thinking that plus maybe I don’t have a pristine slice of wafer in my 14700k... plus mid grade GB is I got what I paid for. Oh well!