Sapphire Radeon RX 9070 XT Nitro+

[JustBenching]

That's now how power draw or power limiting works, it's literally silicon lottery at that point so YMWV. How do you think Intel can sell the 14700 with such low "TDP" when the unlocked K version is a mini furnace?

Uhm what? Silicon lottery has nothing to do with the 14700.

 

[R0H1T]

I'm talking about how even after power limiting your actual power draw depends on the quality of Silicon. The K chips are actually leaky, but they can clock to the moon. The most efficient chips go to servers and laptops. The locked non K parts are somewhere in between, just power limited.

 

[JustBenching]

I'm talking about how even after power limiting your actual power draw depends on the quality of Silicon.

No, if you power limit the chip the power draw depends on nothing else but the power limit. If your power draw =/= power limit then your mobo has wrong AC DC LL values. The non K chips (the ones that you claim are efficient) are notoriously bad in efficiency compared to K chips actually.

 

[lexluthermiester]

How did you figure that? The 9070xt consumes more power than a 5080, a 5070ti, a 4070ti super, a 4080, a 4080 super while being as fast or slower than all of these. Almost every nvidia card of the last 2 generations (bar the 4060) is more efficient

https://tpucdn.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-9070-xt-nitro/images/energy-efficiency.png

Simple. US electricity price are currently about half of what the UK pays per KWH. So naturally that translates over rather smoothly.. Perhaps you missed that context?

 

[R0H1T]

No, if you power limit the chip the power draw depends on nothing else but the power limit.

You're probably talking about the upper limit, I'm talking about the avg power draw. This is also why it's practically useless/impossible to gauge a uarch's efficiency with a handful of test results.

 

[JustBenching]

Simple. US electricity price are currently about half of what the UK pays per KWH. So naturally that translates over rather smoothly.. Perhaps you missed that context?

You said

ATM there are no other high/higher performance alternatives that are also energy efficient.

How does the US or UK electricity price changes whether or not there are higher performance alternatives that are also energy efficient?

 

[Hecate91]

I specifically stated Nitro+ @ $730. I told you were the 570Ti @ $749.99. Nothing is strange about anything... Matter fact, did you even read my post?

The Nitro+ is a high end AIB version, the only 5070Ti available anything close to MSRP is a Microcenter exclusive.
It's strange to compare a high end card to an entry level 5070Ti, and saying the 5070Ti is a better value when it isn't at MSRP for most people.

 

[Krit]

Can someone list all MSRP models of RX 9070 XT

Overpaying 100-200$ for an air cooler is somewhat absurd.

 

[Rover4444]

MBA 6800 XT were regular triple fan axial designs. Many factors involved, by the way, and one of the factors that matters the most is the heat density of ever smaller chips. Navi 21 was large at 520 mm² and approximately 10% of it was disabled (and thus dark) on the 6800 XT, this one is at 357 mm², cranking out the same wattage. It's more difficult to cool.

Still, they can make relatively compact designs based on it, the Pulse 9070 non-XT is about the same size of most 6700 XT's, just a simple dual fan axial.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. PowerColor can do it, the designs AMD showed off were dual-slot... these designs are just too big!

As for the density argument, CPU coolers can cool 250W Intel facemelters at low dBA and those are even denser, right? I just don't think it's a good excuse...

How did you figure that? The 9070xt consumes more power than a 5080, a 5070ti, a 4070ti super, a 4080, a 4080 super while being as fast or slower than all of these. Almost every nvidia card of the last 2 generations (bar the 4060) is more efficient

https://tpucdn.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-9070-xt-nitro/images/energy-efficiency.png

I think he means alternatives price-wise, not performance-wise. I still don't know about that, though.

 

[Jeager]

Great award for an AMD product

Ho and : Large price increase over MSRP

Right, like green team was any better on this..

 

[lexluthermiester]

You said



How does the US or UK electricity price changes whether or not there are higher performance alternatives that are also energy efficient?

You're missing the overall point. It doesn't matter. Energy prices negate power efficiency concerns in certain area's due to different power prices. So the only real concern is the efficiency related to heat production, because no one really wants a space heater for a GPU.

I think he means alternatives price-wise, not performance-wise. I still don't know about that, though.

That's exactly what I meant because that is what they were talking about.

 

[Rover4444]

You're missing the overall point. It doesn't matter. Energy prices negate power efficiency concerns in certain area's due to different power prices.


That's exactly what I meant because that is what they were talking about.

Okay, no, looking over it again right now you just totally ignored what he quoted and you thought this is what he asked about:

Nearly double that time at US power prices. Power here is fairly cheap ATM.

Maybe I'm wrong, though... is the 5070 really that inefficient?

Wait, no, I read things over a third time and you do say alternatives performance-wise. I'm gonna have to agree with the other guy, what you posted doesn't make sense.

 

[Broken Processor]

The performance for a 70 class is fine but I'm concerned for future pricing. Just because these cards are cheaper than Nvidia offering doesn't mean they are good value. They priced these cards like they are 80 series cards.
There is still no reason for me to upgrade and it has been a long time since I've seen this kind of stagnation. I hope they release a more powerful version if not my 6800xt will be doing another tour of duty. Only thing that may force me to upgrade is if games come out I want to play that require RT.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Okay, no, looking over it again right now you just totally ignored what he quoted and you thought this is what he asked about:

Maybe I'm wrong, though... is the 5070 really that inefficient?

Wait, no, I read things over a third time and you do say alternatives performance-wise. I'm gonna have to agree with the other guy, what you posted doesn't make sense.

No, I was commenting on the statement AusWolf made and things progressed from there. JustBenching seems to have misunderstood that context.

 

[AusWolf]

The performance for a 70 class is fine but I'm concerned for future pricing. Just because these cards are cheaper than Nvidia offering doesn't mean they are good value. They priced these cards like they are 80 series cards.

For $600? Seriously? Have you checked Nvidia's MSRP on their x80 cards lately?

 

[Rover4444]

No, I was commenting on the statement AusWolf made and things progressed from there. JustBenching seems to have misunderstood that context.

Yeah, that's what I said, you ignored what he quoted and you thought he was talking about what you said to Aus.

I hope they release a more powerful version if not my 6800xt will be doing another tour of duty.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Yeah, that's what I said, you ignored what he quoted and you thought he was talking about what you said to Aus.

How do you and them not understand this? Misunderstandings happen, but we're not THAT difficult to follow along with. Come on now..

JustBenching was talking about GPU power efficiency, AusWolf said it doesn't matter because of power prices, and I added that his point carried even further over here stateside and that seems to be where he and you lost the thread.

Power efficiency only matters in areas where power prices are very expensive. Even then it's a secondary concern. Power efficiency matters, sure, but it's not a serious enough concern to warrant a change in decision between Geforce and Radeon cards of similar tier performance. The differences are insignificant.

And if they ARE important, you've got bigger problems than how efficient THESE cards are. In that case you should be going with a card that uses much less power, such as a Radeon 9060(on release), a Radeon 7600/7600XT or a Geforce RTX4060 or similar. Arguing about it here is a waste of time.

 

[Rover4444]

How do you and them not understand this? Misunderstandings happen, but we're not THAT difficult to follow along with. Come on now..

JustBenching was talking about GPU power efficiency, AusWolf said it doesn't matter because of power prices, and I added that his point carried even further over here stateside and that seems to be where he and you lost the thread.

Power efficiency only matters in areas where power prices are very expensive. Even then it's a secondary concern. Power efficiency matters, sure, but it's not a serious enough concern to warrant a change in decision between Geforce and Radeon cards of similar tier performance. The differences are insignificant.

And if they ARE important, you've got bigger problems than how efficient THESE cards are. In that case you should be going with a card that uses much less power, such as a Radeon 9060(on release), a Radeon 7600/7600XT or a Geforce RTX4060 or similar. Arguing about it here is a waste of time.

I get that, but

While you make a fair point, ATM there are no other high/higher performance alternatives that are also energy efficient.

Is categorically false, wouldn't you agree?

 

[AusWolf]

Power efficiency only matters in areas where power prices are very expensive.

To prove your point further, it doesn't matter in expensive areas, either, proven by my calculations above based on UK prices which are on the expensive side compared to world averages.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I get that, but

Is categorically false, wouldn't you agree?

Hell no. Show us a GPU that is on par with these new GPU's and is NOT above 200w+.. Not gonna hold my breath on that one..

To prove your point further, it doesn't matter in expensive areas, either, proven by my calculations above based on UK prices which are on the expensive side compared to world averages.

Exactly!

 

[Rover4444]

Hell no. Show us a GPU that is on par with these new GPU's and is NOT above 200w+.. Not gonna hold my breath on that one..


Exactly!

Can you tell me why you're using 200w as your baseline? Would that be idle, average, max, what? I'll try to do it for both of the 9070s, unless you just want me to do it for just one of the cards.

 

[JustBenching]

I don't get the "power doesn't matter" argument ever. Financially, sure, you are going to end up paying 3€ extra a month going for the 9070xt, but that's not the point. I can afford throwing down the toilet 3 bottles of beer a month too, im just not doing it, doesn't make any sense to. The card is good but let's not try to defend the energy waste that it is. 80 extra watts for less performance is just BAD, period.

Hell no. Show us a GPU that is on par with these new GPU's and is NOT above 200w+.. Not gonna hold my breath on that one..

Being above 200w or 900w isn't the main issue. Efficiency isn't the same as power draw. The problem with the 9070xt is that it consumes a LOT more than a 5080 while being slower than the 5070ti.

 

[Broken Processor]

For $600? Seriously? Have you checked Nvidia's MSRP on their x80 cards lately?

This is the issue you've compared it to extremely gouged prices. That doesn't make these cards good value it makes them the least bad option.

 

[Rover4444]

This is the issue you've compared it to extremely gouged prices. That doesn't make these cards good value it makes them the least bad option.

Exactly how I feel! 36% performance increase for 20% more money over the 7800 XT with no VRAM upgrade is extremely bad. RT is a different story though, people who like that will be happy.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Can you tell me why you're using 200w as your baseline?

Giggles? Why not? It's as good a starting point as any.

Would that be idle

200w at idle?!? Are you trolling me with that crap?

average

Yeah, average load. As a STARTING point. Here's a hint for ya: Not going to happen in this gen on this performance tier.

I'll try to do it for both of the 9070s.

You do that and let us know how much is cost you in power.

I don't get the "power doesn't matter" argument ever.

How? How do you not understand that very simple math?

Financially, sure, you are going to end up paying 3€ extra a month going for the 9070xt, but that's not the point.

Less than that and yes it is the point. All of us are going to run a GPU anyway. The difference between 50w, 100w, 200w just not going to matter much. It might cost an extra euro or two, per month, but if that's going to break your bank or offend you to any great degree, you should likely look into a lower end GPU or a laptop level system.

80 extra watts for less performance is just BAD, period.

May I suggest you improve your contextual math skills because what you just makes ZERO sense.

This is the issue you've compared it to extremely gouged prices. That doesn't make these cards good value it makes them the least bad option.

All I'm seeing here is "blah blah blah"...

Exactly how I feel! 36% performance increase for 20% more money over the 7800 XT with no VRAM upgrade is extremely bad. RT is a different story though, people who like that will be happy.

Then buy yourself a 7800XT and quit whining about it here..