AMD Ryzen Threadripper 9975WX and 9965WX Powered by "Zen 5" Surface

[btarunr]

We've known for a while now that AMD is preparing a comprehensive lineup of HEDT and workstation processors powered by the "Zen 5" microarchitecture under the Ryzen Threadripper 9000WX series, codenamed "Shimada Peak." Engineering samples of these chips are moving around for industry and regulatory validation, and so they're being sniffed out in shipping manifests by NBD. Among the models detected are entry-level SKUs, the Threadripper 9975WX and the Threadripper 9965WX. The 9975WX is a 32-core/64-thread part; while the 9965WX is 24-core/48-thread. Both chips feature regular "Zen 5" CCDs with 32 MB on-die L3 caches, each. As a WX-series SKU, the chips are expected to come with 8-channel DDR5 memory interfaces and 128 PCIe Gen 5 lanes.



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[mtosev]

I'm very interested in getting a new Threadripper HEDT cpu. I'd get the 24 core version.

 

[Assimilator]

I'm very interested in getting a new Threadripper HEDT cpu. I'd get the 24 core version.

Good luck selling various body parts to afford it.

 

[docnorth]

Good luck selling various body parts to afford it.

Yeah moaaar lines, but priced like gold I'm afraid.

 

[mtosev]

The threadripper 7960x here in Europe costs 1300€.

 

[csendesmark]

I'm very interested in getting a new Threadripper HEDT cpu. I'd get the 24 core version.

Wish I could afford the 24 core version of this

 

[Dr. Dro]

The threadripper 7960x here in Europe costs 1300€.

The Zen 4 TR's have been in a downward price trend as of late, probably because of low demand. I expect it to end once the Zen 5 parts are released and the last few units available are sold. AMD MSRPs are set extremely high, the 64-core Zen 4 model is $4,999 - and this could rise even higher with the Zen 5 models. AMD positioned itself in a manner that they can build and easily ask for 10,000+ on a 3D cache model if they actually wanted to, they make no effort to make it look affordable or that they want these in the hands of the average customer - and the tech press has absolutely zero interest in pointing that out, which lets them get away with it, even though we sure heard it when Intel released the 6950X at $1700 and kept that price point until the 9980XE.

Unless Intel comes back from the dead and release a competing platform based on Xeon 6/Emerald Rapids with aggressive pricing (effectively reviving the Core X-series line that ended with the i9-10980XE), that niche will only recede further and further. I'd easily fork $800 for an 8-core EMR-based HEDT CPU that offered me the 8-channel memory and 128 PCIe lanes, even for gaming, I had always bought HEDT chips in the past. Platforms always age better.

HEDT is dead, long live HEDT.

 

[mtosev]

Any estimations when will these CPUs be released?

 

[Dr. Dro]

Nothing official yet, but probably soon, as regulatory agency leaks are propping up everywhere. From that point it's usually a few months until retail.

 

[A Computer Guy]

The Zen 4 TR's have been in a downward price trend as of late, probably because of low demand. I expect it to end once the Zen 5 parts are released and the last few units available are sold. AMD MSRPs are set extremely high, the 64-core Zen 4 model is $4,999 - and this could rise even higher with the Zen 5 models. AMD positioned itself in a manner that they can build and easily ask for 10,000+ on a 3D cache model if they actually wanted to, they make no effort to make it look affordable or that they want these in the hands of the average customer - and the tech press has absolutely zero interest in pointing that out, which lets them get away with it, even though we sure heard it when Intel released the 6950X at $1700 and kept that price point until the 9980XE.

Unless Intel comes back from the dead and release a competing platform based on Xeon 6/Emerald Rapids with aggressive pricing (effectively reviving the Core X-series line that ended with the i9-10980XE), that niche will only recede further and further. I'd easily fork $800 for an 8-core EMR-based HEDT CPU that offered me the 8-channel memory and 128 PCIe lanes, even for gaming, I had always bought HEDT chips in the past. Platforms always age better.

HEDT is dead, long live HEDT.

I found ASUS Pro WS TRX50-SAGE WIFI + AMD 7970X CPU on ebay for about $2000 but I don't trust the seller. Too risky since they can't confirm any parts are working. My hopes are dashed for now.

 

[mtosev]

I really hope that amd doesn't abandon the HEDT market and they release sub 1500€ CPUs.

 

[RayneYoruka]

These would be perfect for any homelab!

 

[igormp]

Unless Intel comes back from the dead and release a competing platform based on Xeon 6/Emerald Rapids with aggressive pricing (effectively reviving the Core X-series line that ended with the i9-10980XE), that niche will only recede further and further. I'd easily fork $800 for an 8-core EMR-based HEDT CPU that offered me the 8-channel memory and 128 PCIe lanes, even for gaming, I had always bought HEDT chips in the past. Platforms always age better.

HEDT is dead, long live HEDT.

FWIW, their Xeon W offerings based on Sapphire Rapids were reasonably priced, compared to TR. I heavily considered buying one, but mobos for those are inexistent here

 

[efikkan]

Good luck selling various body parts to afford it.

Anyone who has a use case which remotely can justify it, can probably afford it, unless they live in a third world country or a country where high-end workstation parts are absurdly priced.

Considering many pay more than enough for overpriced motherboards and overclocked memory anyways, it might not be a huge step up in pricing. Such systems are usually useful much longer, so the overall value is undoubtedly solid, not to mention the CPUs and motherboards are much more reliable.

But Threadripper would sell lots of more if they offered motherboards at $450-500 and started the lineup at 12-cores (or even 8).

Unless Intel comes back from the dead and release a competing platform based on Xeon 6/Emerald Rapids with aggressive pricing (effectively reviving the Core X-series line that ended with the i9-10980XE), that niche will only recede further and further. I'd easily fork $800 for an 8-core EMR-based HEDT CPU that offered me the 8-channel memory and 128 PCIe lanes, even for gaming, I had always bought HEDT chips in the past. Platforms always age better.

HEDT is dead, long live HEDT.

The high-end workstation segment is very much alive, although availability varies by the region. Both 4- and 8- memory channel models are available. As for motherboards for the current Sapphire Rapids, the slightly cut down AsRock W790 WS R2.0 has regularly been priced at ~$500 + VAT since last summer, and while cut down it makes any "high end" mainstream socket board look like junk by comparison.

Xeon 6 is Granite Rapids BTW, and workstation parts are coming, TPU covered it not that long ago.

FWIW, their Xeon W offerings based on Sapphire Rapids were reasonably priced, compared to TR. I heavily considered buying one, but mobos for those are inexistent here

Try shops that sell server parts, you might have some luck.
Worst case there is of course Ebay.

 

[igormp]

Try shops that sell server parts, you might have some luck.
Worst case there is of course Ebay.

Not many options here, and pricing for the few ones is non-sense, the only W790 that I found was like $2k.
I don't feel comfortable with ebay because importing stuff is a pain (plus import taxes), and I would not have any local warranty on such product.

 

[Dr. Dro]

The high-end workstation segment is very much alive, although availability varies by the region. Both 4- and 8- memory channel models are available. As for motherboards for the current Sapphire Rapids, the slightly cut down AsRock W790 WS R2.0 has regularly been priced at ~$500 + VAT since last summer, and while cut down it makes any "high end" mainstream socket board look like junk by comparison.

Xeon 6 is Granite Rapids BTW, and workstation parts are coming, TPU covered it not that long ago.

Yeah, I know. The bar was meant to be an "or" in my head hehe. EMR is 5th gen, I'm not sure what it's being marketed as though right off the tongue, though.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

The threadripper 7960x here in Europe costs 1300€.

Yes X version is more cheap than WS but memory channels is a half.

 

[Assimilator]

But Threadripper would sell lots of more if they offered motherboards at $450-500 and started the lineup at 12-cores (or even 8).

It would sell lots more if AMD didn't artificially limit TR parts to expensive, high-core-count models and made up chipsets. All I want is an 8-core CPU with 128 PCIe lanes plus a motherboard with a more-than-server-grade level of connectivity, why is this so hard?

slightly cut down AsRock W790 WS R2.0

"Slightly"? It doesn't have WiFi or rear USB-C, which even the most bargain-basement consumer boards come with as standard! That's not "cut down", that's a freaking joke.

 

[efikkan]

"Slightly"? It doesn't have WiFi or rear USB-C, which even the most bargain-basement consumer boards come with as standard! That's not "cut down", that's a freaking joke.

WiFi on a workstation board, you're joking right?
They need to stop adding useless features which aren't needed by the target customer group, it only drives up costs. Those 2% who need WiFi on this can buy an add-in card, so the rest of us don't have to pay for something that's basically E-waste.

 

[mtosev]

Yes X version is more cheap than WS but memory channels is a half.

I know yes. Quad channel ram would be enough for me.

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

It would sell lots more if AMD didn't artificially limit TR parts to expensive, high-core-count models and made up chipsets. All I want is an 8-core CPU with 128 PCIe lanes plus a motherboard with a more-than-server-grade level of connectivity, why is this so hard?


"Slightly"? It doesn't have WiFi or rear USB-C, which even the most bargain-basement consumer boards come with as standard! That's not "cut down", that's a freaking joke.

The giant price gap between Threadripper on WX parts & X parts compared to Desktop ryzen is pretty large too. Also noticed there is now Threadripper 9000x parts on this list.
Nothing from around $750 to $1,250. just a big dead zone in parts & pricing.

 

[InVasMani]

3-channel's of DDR5 would be nice to see from Intel or AMD or even Nvidia if they ever convincingly started making interesting ARM custom desktop's that rival the x86 dominance which is difficult due to the software scope of x86.

 

[efikkan]

3-channel's of DDR5 would be nice to see from Intel or AMD…

To some extent, but both of them have a two-tier high-end workstation lineup, it would make more sense to take the lower one and scale it down to a more compact socket with ~2500 pins, to reduce costs and add standard cooler compatibility. E.g.:
Threadripper: 48+24 PCIe, 4-channel memory vs. Threadripper Pro 128 PCIe, 8-channel memory
Sapphire Rapids WS: 2000 series 64 PCIe, 4-channel memory vs. 3000 series 112 PCIe, 8-channel memory.

Nor would it be wise to scale up the respective mainstream platforms to 3 channels and a few more PCIe lanes, as the amount needed to make it worth while would approach the high-end workstation platforms anyways, and this would only drive up the costs for basic office users and pure gamers.

If anything, I would prefer to lower the entry for high-end workstation and position it like the old HEDT lineups, and actually lowering the capabilities of the mainstream platforms for next gen, basically "moving" the customers of the >$400 chips over to the new HEDT platform, and making the mainstream only like a cheap 100W TDP platform with less PCIe.

… or even Nvidia if they ever convincingly started making interesting ARM custom desktop's that rival the x86 dominance which is difficult due to the software scope of x86.

Perhaps for specific server workloads, but not for general desktop use, as ARM will never be able to compete with x86 when it comes to logically dense code, which matters a lot since user applications have naturally more logic than pure math. Logic and memory operations require more instructions on ARM. And x86 have since Pentium Pro featured instructions such as conditional move, which greatly reduces the amount of actual branching in the code, which in turn results in fewer pipeline stalls and have been essential for making good "responsive" desktop CPUs for ages. Over the years x86 added various small additions, such as faster memory copying for larger chunks etc., all of which adds up to either make the code more computationally dense or simplify control flow, all of which helps the CPU front-end achieve higher throughput. There is also much more extensive SIMD support for x86.

ARM designs, on the other hand, relies much more heavily on accelerated features (ASIC) to "compete" with x86. That's why your cell phone can browse the Internet or a Mac can do video editing. While it can come reasonably close if it's just pure math, it falters with more complex logic. Accelerated features may be more energy efficient in some cases, but requires customized software to utilize, and hardware very quickly becomes obsolete.

Intel is working on various advancements, incl. APX, which promises to further reduction of branching logic in compiled code, and in turn less code that will cause any kind of pipeline stall. If successful, this will unlock a lot of potential for many applications, although it will need recompilation. It would also make it easier to feed lots of more execution ports (like >2x of today), resulting in massive IPC gains. I don't know whether these advancements is enough to harness all the potential that I see, and sooner or later something will eventually replace x86, but it's not going to be ARM, that would be taking a couple of steps backwards.

But one thing needs to be said; any significant IPC gain is going to scale way better than throwing more cores into CPUs for user-interactive workloads (only async/batch workloads scales "indefinitely" with core counts), and we will continue to see diminishing returns with higher core counts. So lgocially, architectural improvements should excite users more than increased core counts. From a theoretical standpoint, there is far more potential left to be utilized in instruction-level-parallelism than in multithreading.

Edit:

I found ASUS Pro WS TRX50-SAGE WIFI + AMD 7970X CPU on ebay for about $2000 but I don't trust the seller. Too risky since they can't confirm any parts are working. My hopes are dashed for now.

You did the right call, if they have the required parts yet they can't confirm it's 100% working, then run far away. They do this so you can't demand a refund when you find something wrong, either general instability or a specific feature on the motherboard that's defective, or at the very least they suspect there is something wrong.

Statistically speaking it's far more likely the motherboard is bad than the CPU, so when buying used never pay a lot for a used motherboard, or take that into account that you might need to source another one.

You can certainly find great deals, especially if you don't have to add VAT and expensive shipping, but buy from reputable sellers. The amount of such deals aren't as great as they used to be like in the LGA2066 days, since the sales volume is much lower now.

 

[YOUDIEMOFO]

The Zen 4 TR's have been in a downward price trend as of late, probably because of low demand. I expect it to end once the Zen 5 parts are released and the last few units available are sold. AMD MSRPs are set extremely high, the 64-core Zen 4 model is $4,999 - and this could rise even higher with the Zen 5 models. AMD positioned itself in a manner that they can build and easily ask for 10,000+ on a 3D cache model if they actually wanted to, they make no effort to make it look affordable or that they want these in the hands of the average customer - and the tech press has absolutely zero interest in pointing that out, which lets them get away with it, even though we sure heard it when Intel released the 6950X at $1700 and kept that price point until the 9980XE.

Unless Intel comes back from the dead and release a competing platform based on Xeon 6/Emerald Rapids with aggressive pricing (effectively reviving the Core X-series line that ended with the i9-10980XE), that niche will only recede further and further. I'd easily fork $800 for an 8-core EMR-based HEDT CPU that offered me the 8-channel memory and 128 PCIe lanes, even for gaming, I had always bought HEDT chips in the past. Platforms always age better.

HEDT is dead, long live HEDT.

Yes...Yes.....And yes some more. I totally agree. With those specs I could slap in two AIC's instead of my one with 4-8tb of stupid fast raided m.2 storage for scratch disks.

On top of having two to three plus GPU's at full fat bus speeds for some serious render firepower!

I've always been all in on HEDT. Hence I bought a damn CaseLabs STH10 with a pedestal for my liquid cooled builds.

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

I found ASUS Pro WS TRX50-SAGE WIFI + AMD 7970X CPU on ebay for about $2000 but I don't trust the seller. Too risky since they can't confirm any parts are working. My hopes are dashed for now.

the 7960X and the Giga TRX50 Aero are 1600$ together on Amazon, I am eyeing to get those as mentioned by @Dr. Dro HEDT platforms don't get obsolete that easily. if AMD furthers down the price Cut I am getting it sooner.