Who'll be the better president?

[W1zzard]

US elections are soon, who do you think will do a better job?

 

[Apocolypse007]

Is this a new section? I don't remember front page polls being here.

Anyway, I've already discussed my thoughts on this in another thread.

I voted for obama, and I will be voting for him in November as well when it matters. I can't stand McBush and his lies.

What can't you stand about him regarding his policies? And please give an intelligent answer, no little-kid-MTV-High-school-playground rhetoric.

Ok, you call him McBush - which of his policies that he and bush agree on do you disagree with?

And his lies - what did he lie about?

a list of his lies (with references) http://www.mccainpedia.org/index.php/Count_the_Lies

I prefer Barack because I stand to gain much more as a member of the middle class. His economic plan calls for tax cuts for anyone making under 250k a year. Also, he has a good record of voting for and supporting green energy (wind, solar, etc), and I like his anti-lobbyist stance as well.

-there, better answer?

Honestly, I can't see why anyone would vote for McCain.

 

[zOaib]

obama it is ............. and why because we dont want what happened to the soviet union , mccain will take us into the ground bush alrdy got our national debt to 11.3 trillion dollars and no osama bin laden either , if they can find saddam in a sewer , how hard it is to get bin laden ........ and our troops losing their lives over these old farts who are the puppets of the lobbyists.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

People would vote for McCain if they like the direction and leadership that Bush has made the previous two terms. McCain used to be a "Maverick" but nowadays (Last three years) he has just agreed with GW Bush on almost every issue.

So if you agree with the Bush Doctrine(increased government spending and corporate Welfare), you would vote for McCain.

If you don't agree with Bush, and want tax cuts for people that make less than $100,000 a year, you would vote for Obama.

If you don't agree with anyone, and care about the environment, you would vote for Nader. If you don't agree with the right to an obortion, and don't agree with any of the other three, you would vote Ron Paul.


I will be voting for Obama.

 

[CStylen]

Honestly, I can't see why anyone would vote for Comrade Obama. Tax cuts for people that make under $250k/year is nice, however higher teaxes for the rest is bad. Does anyone realize that it's the ones who make over $250k/year that are paying the ones who make under $250k/year? When they are taxed more they: A) stop hiring B) fire current employess (you) and C) pass on added expenses to the consumer....

 

[Apocolypse007]

People would vote for McCain if they like the direction and leadership that Bush has made the previous two terms. McCain used to be a "Maverick" but nowadays (Last three years) he has just agreed with GW Bush on almost every issue.

So if you agree with the Bush Doctrine(increased government spending and corporate Welfare), you would vote for McCain.

If you don't agree with Bush, and want tax cuts for people that make less than $100,000 a year, you would vote for Obama.

If you don't agree with anyone, and care about the environment, you would vote for Nader. If you don't agree with the right to an obortion, and don't agree with any of the other three, you would vote Ron Paul.


I will be voting for Obama.

Actually, anyone making under $250,000 a year will get a tax cut under Obama's plan.

 

[Apocolypse007]

Honestly, I can't see why anyone would vote for Comrade Obama. Tax cuts for people that make under $250k/year is nice, however higher teaxes for the rest is bad. Does anyone realize that it's the ones who make over $250k/year that are paying the ones who make under $250k/year? When they are taxed more they: A) stop hiring B) fire current employess (you) and C) pass on added expenses to the consumer....

Yes and I'm sure if they made (or kept) more money they would be happy to spread the wealth to those that work under them. Honestly, can you really believe that? (not trying to be offensive here)

 

[CStylen]

Yes and I'm sure if they made (or kept) more money they would be happy to spread the wealth to those that work under them. Honestly, can you really believe that? (not trying to be offensive here)

Spoken like a true Marxist. Just like the "big oil" companies should have a profit cap which the "excessive profits" get spead equally around...Makes me sad for the future of capitalism.

 

[Apocolypse007]

Spoken like a true Marxist. Just like the "big oil" companies should have a profit cap which the "excessive profits" get spead equally around...Makes me sad for the future of capitalism.

I'm not advocating communism. My point was that higher taxes for the wealthy would not cause them to punish those making less. Besides, I didn't say anything about oil profits.

 

[CStylen]

I'm not advocating communism. My point was that higher taxes for the wealthy would not cause them to punish those making less. Besides, I didn't say anything about oil profits.

Why wouldn't it? Think about it on a smaller scale, if you were taxed more you may find that you can't afford certain things anymore like computer hardware for example . In a business sense (assuming the busines makes over $250k/year), it would mean maybe not expanding next year and cutting down on overhead.

 

[Kreij]

Hmmm ... There is a big difference between corporate taxation and individual taxation.
That being said, the people who earn a greater amount would be less likely (or possibly less able) to start new firms without the assistance of venture capital funding (a risky thing for a growing business).

How about a flat tax for all individuals. Say 10%.
I make 50K, I pay 5K
You make 1 Million, you pay 100K.
No loopholes, no shelters, nada.

Seems fair.

 

[CStylen]

Thats basically what is it now, except at 30% +/-. But individuals and businesses making over a X amount of money get tax breaks which encourages growth on both ends.

 

[Kreij]

Uhhh ... no it's not.
I get taxed based on my level of income, then I get hit hard with capital gains taxes, death taxes, divident taxes, etc. etc. etc., and on top of that I have to pay sales tax, gas tax etc. etc.

I cannot write off a comparable amount on losses. How is that equitable?

 

[Castiel]

I wander about the people that voted for Obama, that they are voting that he is black or his political views. Because you could be voting for someone that will fuck you up in the future. And Obama is the idiot, McCain left for a while to go to Washington to help out the financial crisis. While Obama said he will watch from the sidelines to see how things went. Now Bush asked them to help out, while Obama still sat out, and wanted to go to the presidential debate. It might not be him, but his advisers that are stupid. McCain wanting to go to help out should help him in the polls.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

Honestly, I can't see why anyone would vote for Comrade Obama. Tax cuts for people that make under $250k/year is nice, however higher teaxes for the rest is bad. Does anyone realize that it's the ones who make over $250k/year that are paying the ones who make under $250k/year? When they are taxed more they: A) stop hiring B) fire current employess (you) and C) pass on added expenses to the consumer....

Thats trickle down economics, which has gotten us in the current economic debacle in the first place. I don't vote for failed policies.

The rich will get richer no matter what. Our current economic situation shows us that. Outsourcing is driven by greed and not necessity.

 

[DOM]

can i be added to the poll

 

[CStylen]

Uhhh ... no it's not.
I get taxed based on my level of income, then I get hit hard with capital gains taxes, death taxes, divident taxes, etc. etc. etc., and on top of that I have to pay sales tax, gas tax etc. etc.

I cannot write off a comparable amount on losses. How is that equitable?

I was referring to income taxes, didn't realize you meant ALL taxes.

It's not trickle down economics which got us in this economic mess. It's the result of greedy lenders, various clowns in Washington, and people who purchased too much house. This stemmed from alleged racial profiling in the 90's, citing that lenders were not lending to minorites based on race, when it was really a matter of the person not having enough cash. Washington then gave lenders money which was borrowed to people that could not afford the payments. By the way, Obama was part of that plan.

For clarification, businesses are owned by individuals, groups of individuals or even LLC's and the sort which are ultimately owned by an individual. With higher taxes the individual will invest less in his business.

 

[bigtye]

CStylen, what is the problem with socialist concepts. America has a socialist representative government, not a democracy, but it works fine and is the same in many western countries.

You also get the broad community to subsidise/pay for others in the community, for instance the nuclear induistry in the US has recieved millions in payments to help set itself up, without which America would struggle to have the energy infrastructure needed. Yet this is a "socialist" idea, true capalist would make private enterprise fund itself.

Now that America's banking industry is struggling, the government is trying to pass a bill whereby the community will provide funds to support private industry (banking) and give government ownership of private industry. This is also a socialist idea.

I don't mind one way or the other, capatalist or socialist, but I think maybe you don't realise that you don't live in a truly capatalist country, one that you clearly love and support.

Don't be so quick to condem other ideas.

Tye

Obama to win but I think McCain will be a better President than current government if he wins.

 

[Castiel]

-but I think McCain will be a better President than current government if he wins.

Thank YOU!

 

[DaedalusHelios]

I wander about the people that voted for Obama, that they are voting that he is black or his political views. Because you could be voting for someone that will fuck you up in the future. And Obama is the idiot, McCain left for a while to go to Washington to help out the financial crisis. While Obama said he will watch from the sidelines to see how things went. Now Bush asked them to help out, while Obama still sat out, and wanted to go to the presidential debate. It might not be him, but his advisers that are stupid. McCain wanting to go to help out should help him in the polls.

To be honest I am a little prejudice against black people, but I know the difference between Obama and the average black person where I live. I live in the swing state of NC. Greensboro is where I was born and raised and is famous for many Civil Rights related breakthroughs, in the south. Even the shootout between the KKK and the communist party occurred here.

We have seen our share of racism here in our past. Hopefully we can look at a black candidate and not hate him for the color of his skin but to judge him by the content of his character.

Obama's policies reflect his intentions, a stronger economic sector with less outsourcing and a socialized health care for the poor. Like all first world countries there will still be a private entity just like we see now. The only difference will be that the poor will go to public health care places and not clog up the ER of paying customers. The poor will also see doctors much more to receive preventative maintenance rather than going to the ER when their health has gone to crap. It will end up costing the private sector less and the public sector will be better off by stopping illnesses before they get out of hand. It will also lower the risk of disease in the country when people are on meds to prevent things from flaring up.

 

[Kreij]

I was referring to income taxes, didn't realize you meant ALL taxes.

I understand, but any money that I pay in taxes comes out of my income, so basically "income taxes".

I have some real beefs with the tax system as it stands.
For instance, let say I put 10K in a tax deferred IRA (401K or whatever).
If I withdraw early, I am killed on taxes that exceed my normal tax rate for the income. Why? If I had not put it in I would pay 30% (or whatever). Why do I now have to pay 40% for early withdrawl?

See what I mean? With a true flat tax it would just be X% for whatever.

The main problem is that it would obsolete the IRS (not a bad thing) as everyone could fill out a 1040-EZ and it would wipe out tax preperation businesses like HR Block (who are virtual extortionists). I can see why a flat tax would be bad

 

[CStylen]

CStylen, what is the problem with socialist concepts. America has a socialist representative government, not a democracy, but it works fine and is the same in many western countries.

You also get the broad community to subsidise/pay for others in the community, for instance the nuclear induistry in the US has recieved millions in payments to help set itself up, without which America would struggle to have the energy infrastructure needed. Yet this is a "socialist" idea, true capalist would make private enterprise fund itself.

Now that America's banking industry is struggling, the government is trying to pass a bill whereby the community will provide funds to support private industry (banking) and give government ownership of private industry. This is also a socialist idea.

I don't mind one way or the other, capatalist or socialist, but I think maybe you don't realise that you don't live in a truly capatalist country, one that you clearly love and support.

Don't be so quick to condem other ideas.

Tye

Obama to win but I think McCain will be a better President than current government if he wins.

These "other ideas" i.e. Socialism have FAILED. Russia anybody?

 

[nflesher87]

Please get educated people, read up on Socialism and understand that Obama is a Socialist
I'm not at all praising McCain, there's plenty I don't agree with him on, but Obama just scares me
Under Obama within 4 years we'll have no nuclear missiles (and be waiving our finger in vain to other countries who still do) have no missile defense system, iraq will be worse than before because we pulled out before the job was done (no condoning the war in the first place, but now that we're there we have to finish it), have higher taxes on small business causing strain on the blue collar who'll be losing their jobs because of it

this is just mildly touching the problems he'll cause, not to mention think for a few minutes about Obama being our Commander in Chief...just think on that...he wants to slash the defense budget and thinks we can defend by increasing country's respect for us around the world :shadedshu

not to mention I haven't even tapped his and his advisors/fellow democrats roles in the crisis that's going on right now, it's a shame the people are blinded by our media and never told the truth unless they truly dig for it
Chris Dodd and Barney Frank were behind the whole thing, and then you have freakin Nancy Pelosi using the Bush excuse that it was all his fault just because she can and no one will fight her on it

I hate getting into discussions on this stuff because I know people are likely not going to see reason but I just had to put this all in...don't bash me

 

[Kreij]

don't bash me

Good luck on that nFlesh.

 

[CStylen]

I understand, but any money that I pay in taxes comes out of my income, so basically "income taxes".

I have some real beefs with the tax system as it stands.
For instance, let say I put 10K in a tax deferred IRA (401K or whatever).
If I withdraw early, I am killed on taxes that exceed my normal tax rate for the income. Why? If I had not put it in I would pay 30% (or whatever). Why do I now have to pay 40% for early withdrawl?

See what I mean? With a true flat tax it would just be X% for whatever.

The main problem is that it would obsolete the IRS (not a bad thing) as everyone could fill out a 1040-EZ and it would wipe out tax preperation businesses like HR Block (who are virtual extortionists). I can see why a flat tax would be bad

Without the possibly of losing money, there would be an end to investing. Leave your 401k alone, you get rewarded down the road. Withdraw early, you get punished

Low risk = low guaranteed return : high risk = might lose all, might gain big

It's such a great system I don't want to see go down the toilet.