AMD Staring at 140W Barrier with Phenom II X4 965?

[Kitkat]

so it is only 125w then?
http://www.technalogic.com/Inu_products/INU_ProdDetailsL19.asp?ref=84342616
edit!
hey at fudzilla too
http://buy.fudzilla.com/a441449.html

Do me a fave buy me one then just im me and ill let u know about the shipping thanx in advance lol

 

[wiak]

http://buy.fudzilla.com/a441449.html

hehe its 125W just like the 955, kinda bad to put 140W in the title when it just might have been a early sample
and guess what core i7 is a 130W part hehe

 

[Meecrob]

nice job with fact checking OP.....

 

[Wile E]

I dont know if you realize it, but your posts come of very anti-amd, no amd isnt "the best" anymore, but the fact is that most OEM boards Could run the chips, but most oem's DO NOT USE HIGH END AMD CHIPS, hell most of them dont even offer high end intel systems anymore, and if they do, they have one choice, even the so-called high end OEM's dont tend to offer high end AMD.

Alienware=Dell, so them even offering anything AMD is a miracle, only happening to avoid
lawsuits for themselves and intel.

voodoopc......to me they are kinda a joke these days

falconNW.....same deal, sure they can build you a high end AMD rig, but you could build you're self the same rig far cheaper......or have somebody locally build one for you.

I could list other sites that offer AMD systems that you could consider OEM's, but none of them that offer "high end" AMD stuff have even close to the market share of the top oem's like dell,hp,gateway,acer,exct the top OEM's have rarely offered the top end cpu's because honestly THEY DON'T MAKE ENOUGH MONEY OFF THOSE SYSTEMS, they make far more off the budget and mid range class systems and sell far more of them.

go to any bigbox system seller and see what they sell more of, low end, mid range or high end, most of them around here dont even offer what i would call high end systems, they offer mid range as high end and low and ultra low as your other choices.

on a side note, most OEM systems that have 120mm fans in them, don't use "low speed" fans they use high speed fans that are speed controlled by the board, example, pull the 120mm fan out of a dell, reconfigure the plug to work on a normal board, and plug it in, the fan will be LOUD AS HELL, and move ONE HELL OF ALOT OF AIR, in fact in the case of dell boxes, that fans MORE THEN ENOUGH to cool even the hottest of cpu's and keep the flow going to allow even high end videocards to be happy(dell may suck, but their case designs for mini and full towers are quite good for airflow most of the time)

Dell's use standard 120mm fans. When's the last time you actually looked in a Dell system? Almost all OEMs choose quiet over airflow. I still service a lot of these machines, and the case cooling is barely adequate for average wattage systems, let alone high wattage systems.

As far as building a high-end AMD yourself, that's not the scope of this current conversation. The scope of the current conversation has been that 140w rating does have a negative effect, especially to OEMs.

ANd my posts aren't intended to come off as AMD. It's just that a lot of the very pro-AMD people post a fair bit of half-truths or misinformation. I only try to counter that. Like for instance, you'll never hear me say anything bad about building an AMD rig if i7 is out of budget, and you won't find me recommending LGA775 builds anymore. Only i7 or AMD (possibly i5 when it releases).

SLI requires hardware to work (included in the nForce chipset), Crossfire is purely drivers. Both require a licence. NVIDIA chipsets can support Crossfire but because there's no way AMD will sell a license to NVIDIA, Intel will be the only chipset manufacturer in the foreseeable future to offer both. At the same time, NVIDIA would take SLI from Intel at the first opportunity they get.

Kinda off topic though.

wrong, SLI can be software or hardware driven, thats how the x58 chipset gets its SLI support, its SOFTWARE, the company pays a license fee to have software based SLI support on x58 boards for example, thats why cheaper x58 boards lack sli support.

since Im sure you will argue without looking into it yourself.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/19/...ticks-i?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_engadget



its NOT hardware based, nvidia's drivers detect if the boards bios have a cert fro SLI in them, if they do they allow SLI to work, if not, well your BONED.

Meecrob is correct. It's purely a licensing issue, and nVidia bears most of the blame, because not only do they not allow SLI on AMD chipsets, but they heavily frown upon Crossfire on NV chipsets, except in some very rare exceptions.

so it is only 125w then?
http://www.technalogic.com/Inu_products/INU_ProdDetailsL19.asp?ref=84342616
edit!
hey at fudzilla too
http://buy.fudzilla.com/a441449.html

Do me a fave buy me one then just im me and ill let u know about the shipping thanx in advance lol

Stores and Fudzilla are not good sources. Stores because mistakes made on one, sometimes trickle down to others, and Fudzilla because, well because it's Fudzilla. lol.

We'll have to wait for official word from AMD. If is indeed 125w, then this whole news post, and the ensuing debates, were indeed pointless.

 

[btarunr]

so it is only 125w then?
http://www.technalogic.com/Inu_products/INU_ProdDetailsL19.asp?ref=84342616
edit!
hey at fudzilla too
http://buy.fudzilla.com/a441449.html

Do me a fave buy me one then just im me and ill let u know about the shipping thanx in advance lol

Nice find. That's the 125W model.

 

[Flyordie]

Its teetering the 125-130W TDP barrier. It should be released as a 125W part though.

 

[Meecrob]

nv have activly BLOCKED cf on their chipsets via the chipset drivers :/

if you got a dell p4 era or newer take that silent fan out, and plug it into a real mobo, it will blow your mind how much air it moves, im using one at this very moment on my cpu, its a panaflow(nbm or whatever) at full speed you can hear it across the room easly, i run it at 50% on all but the hottist days because it even gets a bit loud for my taist(and im no silance purist or for that matter lover......)

IF you ramp the fanspeed in a dell up, the case design is excellent(came from thier older BTX designs/airflow) i have seen plenty of these systems that have cases that are quite nice, other then the dell proprietary front panel connectors, they have a VERY OPEN front grill, the rear is well ventelated as well in the mini towers and full towers, the fans SILENT but thats due to them using the pwm feature to keep it that way till you hit meltdown temps(let a p4/p-d rig hit dells critical temps and the fan will spool up to full power)

i agree tho, many of the systems OEM's make dont have the best airflow, its gotten better over the years, as long as you avoid the thin clients(god those SUCK ASS)

if u can rob some of those 120's give them a test at full tilt, u will be suprised by how powerfull they really are.....real waste for dell to run them at 15-20% when they arent loud at all at 50%

 

[Wile E]

nv have activly BLOCKED cf on their chipsets via the chipset drivers :/

if you got a dell p4 era or newer take that silent fan out, and plug it into a real mobo, it will blow your mind how much air it moves, im using one at this very moment on my cpu, its a panaflow(nbm or whatever) at full speed you can hear it across the room easly, i run it at 50% on all but the hottist days because it even gets a bit loud for my taist(and im no silance purist or for that matter lover......)

IF you ramp the fanspeed in a dell up, the case design is excellent(came from thier older BTX designs/airflow) i have seen plenty of these systems that have cases that are quite nice, other then the dell proprietary front panel connectors, they have a VERY OPEN front grill, the rear is well ventelated as well in the mini towers and full towers, the fans SILENT but thats due to them using the pwm feature to keep it that way till you hit meltdown temps(let a p4/p-d rig hit dells critical temps and the fan will spool up to full power)

i agree tho, many of the systems OEM's make dont have the best airflow, its gotten better over the years, as long as you avoid the thin clients(god those SUCK ASS)

if u can rob some of those 120's give them a test at full tilt, u will be suprised by how powerfull they really are.....real waste for dell to run them at 15-20% when they arent loud at all at 50%

I have used them at full power. Almost every single one I've pulled from a system is a low speed fan, run directly on the psu. I'm not retarded, I know how to run a fan at full speed. lol.

 

[btarunr]

We'll have to wait for official word from AMD. If is indeed 125w, then this whole news post, and the ensuing debates, were indeed pointless.

The 125W model goes by the model number HDZ965FBGIBOX, while the 140W one goes as HDZ965FBK4DGI. This happened with the X4 9950, both its variants were sold, only that the 125W models came a good month or so later. It looks unlikely that such a thing will happen again, now that the 125W one is already spotted.

 

[Wile E]

The 125W model goes by the model number HDZ965FBGIBOX, while the 140W one goes as HDZ965FBK4DGI. This happened with the X4 9950, both its variants were sold.

Why would they bother with a 140w part at all then? That doesn't really make much sense to me. I could see if the 125w part came a few months later, but why both at the same time?

 

[btarunr]

Also "HDZ965FBK4DGI" (140W) tells us that it is not a PIB (processor-in-(a)-box), as "BOX" would be the suffix. So the bets are off, no 140W commercially available 965 BE.

No Phenom II is ending with the "BOX" suffix. Wait and see. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[wiak]

Also "HDZ965FBK4DGI" (140W) tells us that it is not a PIB (processor-in-(a)-box), as "BOX" would be the suffix. So the bets are off, no 140W commercially available 965 BE.

OEMs anyone?

 

[Wile E]

Also "HDZ965FBK4DGI" (140W) tells us that it is not a PIB (processor-in-(a)-box), as "BOX" would be the suffix. So the bets are off, no 140W commercially available 965 BE.

Still doesn't really make sense to sell it as a 140w part, even if it is an oem chip.

 

[btarunr]

Still doesn't really make sense to sell it as a 140w part, even if it is an oem chip.

It doesn't, but if they have thousands of these in the middle of the Pacific (from Malaysia, en route California), AMD can't do much about it.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

wrong, SLI can be software or hardware driven, thats how the x58 chipset gets its SLI support, its SOFTWARE, the company pays a license fee to have software based SLI support on x58 boards for example, thats why cheaper x58 boards lack sli support.

since Im sure you will argue without looking into it yourself.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/19/...ticks-i?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_engadget

Let me bullet the response...

-All X58 chipsets have the necessary hardware to run SLI. In fact, all X38 and X48 chips also have that ability.

-The Intel 5400 (Skulltrail chipset) does not natively support SLI because it is largely based on Intel 5000 series chipsets. Because this is the Skulltrail platform, not having SLI was deemed unacceptable so to add it, the use two NVIDIA nForce 100 MCP chips and modified the chipset enough (to include those additional chips) to warrant giving it its own model number (5400).

-In all cases of SLI-enabled chipsets that aren't manufactured by NVIDIA, an SLI license must be acquired for third-party manufacturers to sell that particular SKU. If they don't purchase the SKU, they need to disable it (via BIOS code) or else run the risk of getting sued by NVIDIA (protecting IP).

-SLI is a hardware- & software-based technology. You need a chipset that is capable of handling SLI (hardware), you need two or more similar video cards (also hardware), you need proper BIOS that unlocks the hardware (software), and you need drivers to tell the OS how to use it (also software). All four elements combined is SLI--two of which are embedded in the motherboard.

its NOT hardware based, nvidia's drivers detect if the boards bios have a cert fro SLI in them, if they do they allow SLI to work, if not, well your BONED.

Skulltrail says otherwise. If hardware was not required for SLI, why would Intel have put two lowly NVIDIA chips on their $600 motherboard?

 

[btarunr]

Skulltrail says otherwise. If hardware was not required for SLI, why would Intel have put two lowly NVIDIA chips on their $600 motherboard?

So that NVIDIA makes money on those chips without having to work out a licensing program like they did for X58. Every SLI-compatible X58 motherboard fetches them US $5.

 

[Wile E]

So that NVIDIA makes money on those chips without having to work out a licensing program like they did for X58. Every SLI-compatible X58 motherboard fetches them US $5.

Yep. You are mistaken on this, ford. It is purely software. Nvidia forced use of their nf100 and nf200 chips in the past to artificially boost their chipset sales. Most SLI ready X58 boards have neither of those chips.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

So that NVIDIA makes money on those chips without having to work out a licensing program like they did for X58. Every SLI-compatible X58 motherboard fetches them US $5.

$5 is cheaper for Intel than buying two NVIDIA chips and reengineering the 5000 chipset to accommodate them. It would have been cheaper for Intel to contract NVIDIA to make the Skulltrail chipset like AMD did with DualFX.

 

[Flyordie]

$5 is cheaper for Intel than buying two NVIDIA chips and reengineering the 5000 chipset to accommodate them. It would have been cheaper for Intel to contract NVIDIA to make the Skulltrail chipset like AMD did with DualFX.

There are some AMD based FX boards out there... they even support up to 140W per socket... lol.

 

[btarunr]

$5 is cheaper for Intel than buying two NVIDIA chips and reengineering the 5000 chipset to accommodate them. It would have been cheaper for Intel to contract NVIDIA to make the Skulltrail chipset like AMD did with DualFX.

In case of dualFX, the chipset was 100% NVIDIA. It's called nForce 680a SLI.

In case of Skulltrail, like I said, they found a makeshift way of making sure NVIDIA gets its cut without having to sign agreements with Intel (since it is the manufacturer of Skulltrail), beyond purchasing nForce 200 like any other component. With X58, the dealings were between the motherboard vendors and NVIDIA. Intel has no role, except that it eventually got one for its DX58SO.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Yep. You are mistaken on this, ford. It is purely software. Nvidia forced use of their nf100 and nf200 chips in the past to artificially boost their chipset sales. Most SLI ready X58 boards have neither of those chips.

Then explain why no Intel boards prior to X38 have SLI. Following that, only the X48 and X58 have SLI. As you know, P35s and P45s sold like mad. If motherboard manufacturers could have paid $5 to allow SLI on those boards, don't you think they would have? That would have put their boards on top. But nope, so far only the X## and 5400 (via 100 MCP) have SLI.

 

[Wile E]

$5 is cheaper for Intel than buying two NVIDIA chips and reengineering the 5000 chipset to accommodate them. It would have been cheaper for Intel to contract NVIDIA to make the Skulltrail chipset like AMD did with DualFX.

Most x58 SLI boards do not have ANY NF chip on them. It is only a BIOS string that enables SLI support in the drivers.

The only X58 SLI boards that have the NF200 chips on them, are those that support Tri SLI at 16x, 16x, 16x speeds. And those come at a heavy premium, thus nVidia making extra money on those boards.

And it makes perfect sense for them to allow SLI on non-NF equipped boards, because that's the only way they will make ANY money on i7 in the midrange at all. They would lose a ton of money if they didn't license it to Intel, as they wouldn't be making a dime on those mid range x58 boards, as opposed to making $5 on them now.

Remember, they have no i7 chipset of their own, so it was the only way for them to get a piece of the pie.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

It is in the IO Hub (aka northbridge) where has always been. The hardware changes surround the PCI Express bus.

 

[btarunr]

Then explain why no Intel boards prior to X38 have SLI.

Simple, NVIDIA wouldn't cannibalize its nForce 700 for Intel's sake. Now there's a lot of drama surrounding NVIDIA and Intel, and how Intel isn't allowing NV to make a full-blown chipset. NVIDIA needs to make money, it found one small way of doing it till things are settled. Even if they are, I'm not sure if you'll want to buy a "nForce 980i SLI" over Intel X58, because the latter supports CrossFireX too.

 

[Wile E]

It is in the IO Hub.

Nothing more than semantics. It's still an NV chip, and you knew what I meant.

They didn't have to enable SLI on X38, X48, P45, etc, etc. because they had competing LGA775 chipsets in 750, 780, and 790.

They have nothing to compete against Intel on i7 chipsets. Allowing it on midrange X58 without the NF200 was the only way they could get a piece of the midrange pie.

SLI has always been software limited. Remember the ULI chipsets that supported SLI, but NV blocked in a driver update?