AMD Staring at 140W Barrier with Phenom II X4 965?

[Wile E]

huh, thought I read an opteron article recently that said they still rated at max, but changed how they calculated the figurers for max....meh, main thing to remember is that the 2 companies DO NOT COME UP WITH THEIR NUMBERS THE SAME WAY, as such you cant compare them 1:1

an example is that prescott thats rated at 89watts, but puts out far far more heat then my cpu's i have had rated at over 100....

again, u cant go by the ratings the companies put on their own chips, its like compairing chips based on their clocks speeds..... u could have a p4 a 4.6gz but it would still be slower then a core2 or k8/k10 chip at 3gz,

I know. I'm not one of the ones saying that it draws more than i7. That's not the important factor at all. Read my edited post above.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

not to mention at stock were the vast majority of BOTH of these chips will run the AMD chip will outperform the i7 920. no if, ands, or butts about it with the clock speed ramped up to 3.4ghz this chip will have an advantage over a stock core i7 920 in just about every task.

3.2 GHz to 3.4 GHz only represents a 6% increase in clockspeed. Core i7 920 beat Phenom II 955 in most benchmarks by a margin wider than 6%. The numbers suggest the Phenom II 965 will tighten the gap but not "outperform" the Core i7 920.

 

[cdawall]

The big, important part you are missing is, the i7 boards were built with these power draws in mind. Not all of the Phenom II boards were built with 140w tdp in mind. That's the reason people look on it as a con. Not because you have to worry about just the heat of the chip, but because the average joe, and the oem are now gonna have to worry whether their boards will handle it as well.

i doubt that this 140w chip will end up in any mainstream OEM PC and the companies that do use phenoms like HP and gateway are already set up to use 140w chips i have personally dissected all of the new builds. Gateway uses a ECS rebranded 780G board with a 4+1 phase design and it matches the design of one of the ECS 780G boards already made for 140w chips. HP uses a GP8200 based asus board that is commonly used with 140w chip support. the coolers in both machines are made by AVC who makes the OEM coolers for AMD and just so happens to ship them with those very cpu's that AMD sells.

Now, if AMD would've outlined 140w TDPs from the beginning, and all AMD boards were built with that in mind, then yeah, it would be no problem. In short, it's a product planning issue.

intel never outlines its highest wattage chips this chip is an oh shit we need more umph and thats what it is here for.

Right, but they still need to make sure they an run a 140w cpu in their machines. They now have to double check if their coolers, and vreg cooling are up to the task. It still doesn't change my original point that the higher TDP will effect OEM's.

oddly enough the 9950 140w chip didn't cause an OEM panic oh wait they didn't use it until it became a more binned 125w part

Yeah, but that leaves you switching boards if you want to try a multi-card setup from the other camp. So it's not "woopdee fricken do", it's a very legitimate advantage i7 has over Phenom II. That also helps OEMs, as they now don't have to stock out 2 different boards for SLI or Crossfire setups. That's very significant.

asrock has a 750A board that can do SLI and Xfire they use it in falcon northwest machines.

3.2 GHz to 3.4 GHz only represents a 6% increase in clockspeed. Core i7 920 beat Phenom II 955 in most benchmarks by a margin wider than 6%. The numbers suggest the Phenom II 965 will tighten the gap but not "outperform" the Core i7 920.

not in most benchmarks in some benchmarks mainly those that deal in multitasking you know something that takes advantage of 8 cores in gaming benchmarks they were with spitting distance of each other.

 

[Wile E]

i doubt that this 140w chip will end up in any mainstream OEM PC and the companies that do use phenoms like HP and gateway are already set up to use 140w chips i have personally dissected all of the new builds. Gateway uses a ECS rebranded 780G board with a 4+1 phase design and it matches the design of one of the ECS 780G boards already made for 140w chips. HP uses a GP8200 based asus board that is commonly used with 140w chip support. the coolers in both machines are made by AVC who makes the OEM coolers for AMD and just so happens to ship them with those very cpu's that AMD sells.

Doesn't matter what the boards are based on. You are still looking in too narrow a field. Case cooling also comes into play.

intel never outlines its highest wattage chips this chip is an oh shit we need more umph and thats what it is here for.

Ummm, what? Don't know exactly what you were trying to say here, but regardless, Intel setups don't have to worry about additional wattage.

oddly enough the 9950 140w chip didn't cause an OEM panic oh wait they didn't use it until it became a more binned 125w part

Exactly my point. They couldn't use 140w cpus. This is what I've been getting at the whole time.

asrock has a 750A board that can do SLI and Xfire they use it in falcon northwest machines.

So, one AMD board vs how many Intel boards? Not to mention ASRock is a POS brand compared to other options available. Your point is moot. i7 still has the multi-card platform advantage.

 

[TheMailMan78]

So, one AMD board vs how many Intel boards? Not to mention ASRock is a POS brand compared to other options available. Your point is moot. i7 still has the multi-card platform advantage.

(Picks up his teddy bear and interrupts the adults) So an i7 platform can do both crossfire and SLI?

 

[Wile E]

(Picks up his teddy bear and interrupts the adults) So an i7 platform can do both crossfire and SLI?

Yeah, on a good many x58 boards. Some of the low end ones don't offer SLI support, but most X58 boards do both.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Yeah, on a good many x58 boards. Some of the low end ones don't offer SLI support, but most X58 boards do both.

What chipset supports both? Sorry I'm learning this Intel stuff. Bare with me.

 

[Wile E]

What chipset supports both? Sorry I'm learning this Intel stuff. Bare with me.

X58, but low end X58 boards may opt out of SLI support, to make it cheaper to buy, but still have Crossfire support. It's a licensing thing. But most x58 boards do both SLI and Crossfire. Just have to double check the SLI support.

 

[cdawall]

Doesn't matter what the boards are based on. You are still looking in too narrow a field. Case cooling also comes into play.

Ummm, what? Don't know exactly what you were trying to say here, but regardless, Intel setups don't have to worry about additional wattage.

Exactly my point. They couldn't use 140w cpus. This is what I've been getting at the whole time.

So, one AMD board vs how many Intel boards? Not to mention ASRock is a POS brand compared to other options available. Your point is moot. i7 still has the multi-card platform advantage.

you right i mine the fact that damn near every OEM PC just has a 120MM fan in the back regardless to cpu or video card or anything else in the case has never really been proven to cool anything.

most new AMD boards can handle 140w just fine it was a group of MSI, asus and GB boards that came out when AMD first released 125w and 140w parts that couldn't cope and they couldn't cope with the older 125w 6000+ and 6400+ either.

my point was no OEM has used that high of a watt chip when it first came out none of them do you see any OEM that had the 6400+ in a PC or how about one with the FX57 or wait how about a QX9650? no you see ones with a 5600+ in it or a 4000+ or a Q9550 most OEM's do not use high bin cpu's at all regardless of TDP.

and go ahead on your high horse about the multi card shit i honestly don't care that intel threatened and cheated nvidia out of the SLi license but whatever if that business practice makes you happy go buy some stock in intel.

 

[TheMailMan78]

X58, but low end X58 boards may opt out of SLI support, to make it cheaper to buy, but still have Crossfire support. It's a licensing thing. But most x58 boards do both SLI and Crossfire. Just have to double check the SLI support.

I had no idea. No matter how much I think I know I'm still a noob in big boy pants. Ya know I really think I'm going Intel VERY soon. Anyone want to buy a beast of an AMD rig?? See specs

 

[erocker]

Ya know I really think I'm going Intel VERY soon.

:shadedshu I hear the sounds of a thousand Canadians crying. Does anyone know if P55 chipsets will be CrossFire and SLI compatible?

 

[Wile E]

you right i mine the fact that damn near every OEM PC just has a 120MM fan in the back regardless to cpu or video card or anything else in the case has never really been proven to cool anything.

most new AMD boards can handle 140w just fine it was a group of MSI, asus and GB boards that came out when AMD first released 125w and 140w parts that couldn't cope and they couldn't cope with the older 125w 6000+ and 6400+ either.

my point was no OEM has used that high of a watt chip when it first came out none of them do you see any OEM that had the 6400+ in a PC or how about one with the FX57 or wait how about a QX9650? no you see ones with a 5600+ in it or a 4000+ or a Q9550 most OEM's do not use high bin cpu's at all regardless of TDP.

and go ahead on your high horse about the multi card shit i honestly don't care that intel threatened and cheated nvidia out of the SLi license but whatever if that business practice makes you happy go buy some stock in intel.

lol. That had the biggest AMD fanboy overtone I have heard from you.

Look, I don't give a shit what system I buy. I buy the best for my money at the time of purchase. Last time I built an entire rig, my budget was high, and the QX got the nod, as it was faster than anything else out there.

Next year, I plan to upgrade again, and probably on a rather large budget again. Whoever has the fastest setup, with the features I need in my price range will get my money.

I don't deal in fanboy emotions, I deal in facts. It is a fact that 140w is a problem for many OEMs that offer AMD, or else they would actually offer 140w cpus instead of waiting for 125w variants to release months later.

It is a fact that case airflow effects cooling, and that a single low rpm 120mm fan as an exhaust in an mATX case is not adequate on a good many high-heat output systems.

And yes, high performance OEMs do offer the top tier cpus, and higher TDPs do effect their designs, whether you like it or not.

So, go ahead on your anti-intel tirade, it still doesn't change facts, cd.

 

[Wile E]

:shadedshu I hear the sounds of a thousand Canadians crying. Does anyone know if P55 chipsets will be CrossFire and SLI compatible?

Rumor has it that it will.

 

[ShadowFold]

SLI support isn't important to me at all. I kind of want to build an i7 rig just to play with. If AMD doesn't announce anything cool by September I'll probably build an Intel just to tide me over until they can get their stuff back together My Crosshair III is so lonely with only a triple core I need a 6core or something that does crazy clocks.

 

[TheMailMan78]

:shadedshu I hear the sounds of a thousand Canadians crying. Does anyone know if P55 chipsets will be CrossFire and SLI compatible?

Ya know I really wish AMD supported both platforms. Crossfire and SLI. Thats what temps me the most. I love EVGA cards. If I could get two 295s with my Phenom II 720 I would be in hog heaven.

 

[Meecrob]

Ya know I really wish AMD supported both platforms. Crossfire and SLI. Thats what temps me the most. I love EVGA cards. If I could get two 295s with my Phenom II 720 I would be in hog heaven.

AMD CANT, nVidia wont let them run SLI on AMD chipsets and wont allow CF on nVidia chipsets.

this is NOT AMD's Choice/Fault its nVidia, they are to worried about loosing a few mobo or videocard sales to allow cross compatibility between cf and sli.

Its childish and STUPID because but its how some companies think.

yes nV would loose some sales in one cat, but it would more then be made up for by the sales in the other, there are alot of people i know who would buy nVidia chipsets IF they could run CF and SLI on them, same goes for nVidia videocards, IF they could use 2+ nVidia videocards in a 790 board in SLI they would jump on it, but thanks to nVidia's stupidity they loose out on sales because those same people just say "Screw it" and go get a couple ati cards.

 

[Meecrob]

lol. That had the biggest AMD fanboy overtone I have heard from you.

Look, I don't give a shit what system I buy. I buy the best for my money at the time of purchase. Last time I built an entire rig, my budget was high, and the QX got the nod, as it was faster than anything else out there.

Next year, I plan to upgrade again, and probably on a rather large budget again. Whoever has the fastest setup, with the features I need in my price range will get my money.

I don't deal in fanboy emotions, I deal in facts. It is a fact that 140w is a problem for many OEMs that offer AMD, or else they would actually offer 140w cpus instead of waiting for 125w variants to release months later.

It is a fact that case airflow effects cooling, and that a single low rpm 120mm fan as an exhaust in an mATX case is not adequate on a good many high-heat output systems.

And yes, high performance OEMs do offer the top tier cpus, and higher TDPs do effect their designs, whether you like it or not.

So, go ahead on your anti-intel tirade, it still doesn't change facts, cd.

I dont know if you realize it, but your posts come of very anti-amd, no amd isnt "the best" anymore, but the fact is that most OEM boards Could run the chips, but most oem's DO NOT USE HIGH END AMD CHIPS, hell most of them dont even offer high end intel systems anymore, and if they do, they have one choice, even the so-called high end OEM's dont tend to offer high end AMD.

Alienware=Dell, so them even offering anything AMD is a miracle, only happening to avoid
lawsuits for themselves and intel.

voodoopc......to me they are kinda a joke these days

falconNW.....same deal, sure they can build you a high end AMD rig, but you could build you're self the same rig far cheaper......or have somebody locally build one for you.

I could list other sites that offer AMD systems that you could consider OEM's, but none of them that offer "high end" AMD stuff have even close to the market share of the top oem's like dell,hp,gateway,acer,exct the top OEM's have rarely offered the top end cpu's because honestly THEY DON'T MAKE ENOUGH MONEY OFF THOSE SYSTEMS, they make far more off the budget and mid range class systems and sell far more of them.

go to any bigbox system seller and see what they sell more of, low end, mid range or high end, most of them around here dont even offer what i would call high end systems, they offer mid range as high end and low and ultra low as your other choices.

on a side note, most OEM systems that have 120mm fans in them, don't use "low speed" fans they use high speed fans that are speed controlled by the board, example, pull the 120mm fan out of a dell, reconfigure the plug to work on a normal board, and plug it in, the fan will be LOUD AS HELL, and move ONE HELL OF ALOT OF AIR, in fact in the case of dell boxes, that fans MORE THEN ENOUGH to cool even the hottest of cpu's and keep the flow going to allow even high end videocards to be happy(dell may suck, but their case designs for mini and full towers are quite good for airflow most of the time)

 

[TheMailMan78]

AMD CANT, nVidia wont let them run SLI on AMD chipsets and wont allow CF on nVidia chipsets.

this is NOT AMD's Choice/Fault its nVidia, they are to worried about loosing a few mobo or videocard sales to allow cross compatibility between cf and sli.

Its childish and STUPID because but its how some companies think.

yes nV would loose some sales in one cat, but it would more then be made up for by the sales in the other, there are alot of people i know who would buy nVidia chipsets IF they could run CF and SLI on them, same goes for nVidia videocards, IF they could use 2+ nVidia videocards in a 790 board in SLI they would jump on it, but thanks to nVidia's stupidity they loose out on sales because those same people just say "Screw it" and go get a couple ati cards.

Cdawall says Asrock has one.

 

[sinar]

Sandra's info of my cpu

 

[Meecrob]

Cdawall says Asrock has one.

hacked drivers, same as ULI had, but nVidia will find a way to block it, forcing people to use older drivers(mobo chipset drivers) or amd/ati will block it to avoid problems with nvidia....

i havent found that board available at any retail outlet yet either....

 

[FordGT90Concept]

SLI requires hardware to work (included in the nForce chipset), Crossfire is purely drivers. Both require a licence. NVIDIA chipsets can support Crossfire but because there's no way AMD will sell a license to NVIDIA, Intel will be the only chipset manufacturer in the foreseeable future to offer both. At the same time, NVIDIA would take SLI from Intel at the first opportunity they get.

Kinda off topic though.

 

[Meecrob]

SLI requires hardware to work (included in the nForce chipset), Crossfire is purely drivers. Both require a licence. NVIDIA chipsets can support Crossfire but because there's no way AMD will sell a license to NVIDIA, Intel will be the only chipset manufacturer in the foreseeable future to offer both. At the same time, NVIDIA would take SLI from Intel at the first opportunity they get.

Kinda off topic though.

wrong, SLI can be software or hardware driven, thats how the x58 chipset gets its SLI support, its SOFTWARE, the company pays a license fee to have software based SLI support on x58 boards for example, thats why cheaper x58 boards lack sli support.

since Im sure you will argue without looking into it yourself.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/19/...ticks-i?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_engadget

When NVIDIA announced support for SLI on motherboards sporting Intel's X58 chipset, there was something of a hidden catch -- manufacturers needed to pay to become "certified." Yes, you might have thought all you needed was a pair of parallel PCI-E slots and couple of matching video cards to get your SLI on, but non-certified boards find themselves shunned by NVIDIA graphics hardware. However, where there's a will there's usually a way, and for at least one of those woefully illegitimate mobos there's a workaround. GIGABYTE didn't bother to get certification for its EX58-UD4 motherboard, but it did for the EX58-UD4P, and it turns out the same BIOS works on both. Naturally it takes a little extra work to get the wrong version up in the right EEPROM, but the read link has all the details you need to re-flash with finesse.

its NOT hardware based, nvidia's drivers detect if the boards bios have a cert fro SLI in them, if they do they allow SLI to work, if not, well your BONED.

 

[TheMailMan78]

wrong, SLI can be software or hardware driven, thats how the x58 chipset gets its SLI support, its SOFTWARE, the company pays a license fee to have software based SLI support on x58 boards for example, thats why cheaper x58 boards lack sli support.

since Im sure you will argue without looking into it yourself.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/19/...ticks-i?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_engadget



its NOT hardware based, nvidia's drivers detect if the boards bios have a cert fro SLI in them, if they do they allow SLI to work, if not, well your BONED.

No need for the attitude buddy. Right or wrong show some respect.

 

[Meecrob]

give respect, receive respect.

dont post something as fact if its not

 

[TheMailMan78]

give respect, receive respect.

dont post something as fact if its not

Mistakes can be made. No one is perfect. He said nothing disrespectful to you. Slow your roll son.