AMD Bulldozer A Surprisingly Sell-Out Sales Success. Victims: Phenom II & Athlon II

[Melvis]

This sounds like the P4, worst CPU ever made, but sold better then any CPU ever made LOL (in its time) if you get what i mean?

 

[Fx]

I feel wary saying anything on a tech forum, but just going from memory...

5) MP3 players were niche prior to the iPod.
6) Smartphones were...where? prior to the iPhone.
7) Tablets were the butt of jokes prior to the iPad.
8) The first decent touchscreens in wide use to my memory?
9) Apps. Hadn't been done as well before.
10) And in response to your no. 1...Have you seen Thermaltake's cases?!

/neverownedanappleproduct

excellent summary Vancha- that list looks pretty accurate to me. I was hoping I wasnt the only PC user that at least gives credit where it is due

 

[Damn_Smooth]

So what do AMD's sales of BD have to do with Apple? Nothing? I thought so. I won't bother going back to see what started that then.

 

[Vancha]

So what do AMD's sales of BD have to do with Apple? Nothing? I thought so. I won't bother going back to see what started that then.

This is why people shouldn't answer their own questions.

 

[Fx]

Yeah, me too. But then again my hard evidence is either before some peoples time, or not readily apparent due to blinkers.

Surely you must remember Mr Fruehe's forum based viral marketing campaign over the last couple of years ?

Could pay to ditch the rose coloured glasses- they're bad for eyesight

You drive a Saturn and your FX sits in an ECS motherboard perhaps?

I admit that I was among many people that got burned when I bought the PI X4 9500 with the TLB bug but I rode that one out until the PII X4 955. was I irrated, yes. was I mad? no, I was still able to game on ultra settings with no problems. what matters to you doesnt to others. I personally dont take marketing all that serious cause well, they are marketing...

anyways, false marketing is no where near as bad as what Intel has done to their competition. I would have no problems with Intel if they practiced putting their competition into the dirt by sheer innovation

so cling to your 'hard evidence'. you have your reasons and I have mine. btw, your assumed stereotype is wrong. I dont drive saturns nor do I build with ECS. I drive a G37 and I prefer to build with Gigabyte and ASUS. I do not own an FX chip since I was waiting for a higher bin. now it looks like I am going to wait for PD

So what do AMD's sales of BD have to do with Apple? Nothing? I thought so. I won't bother going back to see what started that then.

perhaps you should start reading entire threads. yes, it got off topic for a second but it also got back on. it started from my response to statement that Steve Jobs gave a damn about his company's bottom line

 

[Completely Bonkers]

The reason is simple:

All the hype 6 months ago let OEM designers to design PCs for the Xmas season to be based on these chips. Prepurchase orders and production lines set up for these CPUs.

The question is whether the PCs themselves will actually sell, or stockpile on retailers shelves.

You bet AMD is discounting heavily in the OEM so that they dont switch mid production to an Intel product.

AMD are very lucky today they have their own socket... otherwise switching to Intel would be so much easier for the OEM.

 

[entropy13]

5) MP3 players were niche prior to the iPod.

They weren't niche. I doubt the DMCA would have been conceived, and the pioneering mp3 player company be forced to bankruptcy by the RIAA if they were. Even the group that created the mp3 format was threatened by them.

6) Smartphones were...where? prior to the iPhone.

Used by people that needed their additional functions, usually executives or business owners. All Apple did was give the general public a phone with a lot of features they don't need. Hardly innovative there. Smartphones essentially became "fashion statements" rather than a useful application of technology.

7) Tablets were the butt of jokes prior to the iPad.

Actually, no. There were more jokes made after the iPad came about.

8) The first decent touchscreens in wide use to my memory?

Manufactured by LG!

9) Apps. Hadn't been done as well before.

Yes, they were called "programs" then, or even more simply, "software."

10) And in response to your no. 1...Have you seen Thermaltake's cases?!

I owned two, although only one of them remains. What's your point here though? A lot of people bash Thermaltake for going with something "too extravagant", or in the words of Jeremy Clarkson, it's the "LOOK AT ME I'M SO FABULOUS" look. Which isn't exactly how Apple emphasizes their aesthetics in their products. Unless "sleek aluminum" can now be considered as such?

 

[Damn_Smooth]

This is why people shouldn't answer their own questions.

I figured it would be better than sitting around waiting for you to tell me that this has nothing to do with Apple.

perhaps you should start reading the whole thread. yes, it got off topic for a second but it got back on. it started from my response to statement that Steve Jobs gave a damn about his companie's bottom line

I would have if I cared enough about Apple to do so. I don't though.

OT: Good for AMD. Maybe they can take this and invest the money in those new low end chips they're planning to produce. I wish them nothing but the best for their future.

 

[Widjaja]

It's good to hear such a thing happening but.....

It's possibly the average consumer being conned into thinking 8 cores is better than 6 and the price you are paying for 8 initially is a steal.

The average consumer doesn't know squat about PCs and believes more is better.

Just like, say a late model V6 which puts out more power than a late model V8.
There is just a ring to having that higher number amongst people who do not know any better especially when there is a lack of knowledge about the actual performance output.

 

[entropy13]

It's good to hear such a thing happening but.....

It's possibly the average consumer being conned into thinking 8 cores is better than 6 and the price you are paying for 8 initially is a steal.

The average consumer doesn't know squat about PCs and believes more is better.

Just like, say a late model V6 which puts out more power than a late model V8.
There is just a ring to having that higher number amongst people who do not know any better especially when there is a lack of knowledge about the actual performance output.

We can't really do much about them though. I try my best though in a local site. It's one of the biggest places you can buy hardware, and they also have forums, so there's a "Help Me Build My Rig" thread there. Currently we try our best to help the "newcomers" avoid the OMFG 8 CORES ARE BETTER THAN 4 CORES!!! AMD R0X0RS!!! trap. The only times we recommend AMD are usually only in two situations: 1) needs are satisfied by a Llano setup; the integrated GPU can handle the games/reso the user wants to play. 2) look to upgrade a preexisting AMD platform, usually from (older) Athlons, to either the newer gen Athlons or Phenoms, or from an Ahtlon to a Phenom. But very rarely a Bulldozer (someone who got a 990FX board, for example, opted to go with a 6-core Thuban from his 4-core rather than get a Bulldozer CPU). The only time that someone would recommend a newcomer to get a Bulldozer is if they asked in the AMD section.

 

[Fx]

They weren't niche. I doubt the DMCA would have been conceived, and the pioneering mp3 player company be forced to bankruptcy by the RIAA if they were. Even the group that created the mp3 format was threatened by them.

Used by people that needed their additional functions, usually executives or business owners. All Apple did was give the general public a phone with a lot of features they don't need. Hardly innovative there. Smartphones essentially became "fashion statements" rather than a useful application of technology.

Actually, no. There were more jokes made after the iPad came about.

Manufactured by LG!

Yes, they were called "programs" then, or even more simply, "software."

I owned two, although only one of them remains. What's your point here though? A lot of people bash Thermaltake for going with something "too extravagant", or in the words of Jeremy Clarkson, it's the "LOOK AT ME I'M SO FABULOUS" look. Which isn't exactly how Apple emphasizes their aesthetics in their products. Unless "sleek aluminum" can now be considered as such?

this post is thick with spin. I dont care to discuss why though

I would have if I cared enough about Apple to do so. I don't though.

nor do I, but when discussing a tech company it is easy to bring up another since after all... we are discussing technology...

I gotta admit though- I wish I hadnt replied cause this wasnt my intention

 

[RejZoR]

Warning, Apple fanboys ahead!

 

[Damn_Smooth]

nor do I, but when discussing a tech company it is easy to bring up another since after all... we are discussing technology...

I guess the only parallel that I can draw between Apple and AMD is that they both overprice their under performing hardware. Even then, AMD is so far behind Apple in that aspect that I find it hard to compare them.

 

[entropy13]

this post is thick with spin. I dont care to discuss why though



nor do I, but when discussing a tech company it is easy to bring up another since after all... we are discussing technology...

I gotta admit though- I wish I hadnt replied cause this wasnt my intention

"Don't care to discuss why"?

It's like changing your relationship status in facebook from "in a relationship" to "single" and when someone asks why, you'll reply "I don't want to talk about it."

"I wish I hadnt replied cause this wasnt my intention"?

But you did reply. So you did change your intention, by replying.

EDIT: Oh shucks, sorry about that. It wasn't my intention really to call you out about that. Oh wait.

 

[Widjaja]

I guess the only parallel that I can draw between Apple and AMD is that they both overprice their under performing hardware. Even then, AMD is so far behind Apple in that aspect that I find it hard to compare them.

That's true.
With AMD, it's like, the performance isn't really that great but it's a bargain I suppose since I can't afford a decent Intel CPU.....

While with Apple, it's like WHOA that's expensive....I'm sure there is a good reason for it.

 

[entropy13]

That's true.
With AMD, it's like, the performance isn't really that great but it's a bargain I suppose since I can't afford a decent Intel CPU.....

While with Apple, it's like WHOA that's expensive....I'm sure there is a good reason for it.

AMD fanboys are firm believers of this and for a short time (during their "dominant" period) they were also guilty of this. While Apple fanboys are guilty of this and this. Especially when Apple v. Microsoft comparisons crop up.

 

[Vancha]

"Don't care to discuss why"?

It's like changing your relationship status in facebook from "in a relationship" to "single" and when someone asks why, you'll reply "I don't want to talk about it."

"I wish I hadnt replied cause this wasnt my intention"?

But you did reply. So you did change your intention, by replying.

EDIT: Oh shucks, sorry about that. It wasn't my intention really to call you out about that. Oh wait.

I think it's more a case that no one here should need the flaws in what you said pointed out (apart from possibly the point about Mp3 players, which I don't know enough about to evaluate).

I had a long post replying to every one of your points, but as Damn Smooth pointed out this is getting rather off-topic, and it'd have been a redundant response for most of the people who read it.

 

[Fx]

I guess the only parallel that I can draw between Apple and AMD is that they both overprice their under performing hardware. Even then, AMD is so far behind Apple in that aspect that I find it hard to compare them.

ahh, well I wasnt comparing them

"Don't care to discuss why"?

It's like changing your relationship status in facebook from "in a relationship" to "single" and when someone asks why, you'll reply "I don't want to talk about it."

I had to laugh at this notion cause that would be really jacked up lol

"I wish I hadnt replied cause this wasnt my intention"?

I was talking about my first initial reply to WrigleyVillain's statement about Steve Jobs. my reply kicked it off

 

[Damn_Smooth]

AMD fanboys are firm believers of this and for a short time (during their "dominant" period) they were also guilty of this. While Apple fanboys are guilty of this and this. Especially when Apple v. Microsoft comparisons crop up.

I fit that mold nicely a couple months ago. Something occurred to wake me up. For the life of me I can't remember what it was though.

 

[Vancha]

So again, any thoughts on why AMD are dropping x86 considering their products are supposedly flying off the shelves?

Edit: Sorry, not dropping..."Avoiding the high end", rather.

 

[Widjaja]

So again, any thoughts on why AMD are dropping x86 considering their products are supposedly flying off the shelves?

From what I gather, AMD have been pushing for x64 for ages.
Since 939skt.
Hence their AMD64 badges.

 

[Enmity]

I think one of the main reasons why the bulldozer cpus are selling so well is simply because so many people already have am3+ motherboards with the need for a reasonably priced cpu upgrade and can't be arsed selling everything to start fresh on an intel board, cpu and ram when they know intel is just going to scrap the cpu sockets and you'll have to start fresh again for the next upgrade.

On the flip side of this, this is why intels offerings are the more powerful solution, because they do keep changing sockets, not limiting themselves.

But back on topic..

I feel majority of people are aware of how bulldozer performs, but for those that already have a bulldozer ready set up it is the latest, best and most futureproof upgrade within their budget.

My budget right now is $0 lol, but if i was in a position to be getting a new cpu - since I am an enthusiast (a minority, like already mentioned in this thread) I would still sell up and start fresh with an i5/7 build though...oh to be part of the 5% who care about the nitty gritty huh?

 

[Fx]

So again, any thoughts on why AMD are dropping x86 considering their products are supposedly flying off the shelves?

Edit: Sorry, not dropping..."Avoiding the high end", rather.

I speculate that it is AMD's move to get some heat off of them

this way they will be able to continue building a high-end cpu if they want to and just say that they changed their mind upon an announcement of a new high-end cpu. they would have plenty of time to work on it cause no one would be expecting it from them

it seems they are focusing on the larger more profitable markets and APUs to me

 

[NC37]

So what do AMD's sales of BD have to do with Apple? Nothing? I thought so. I won't bother going back to see what started that then.

Rumors are Apple almost went Llano for the last MacBook refresh. Strong chance they'll be considering Trinity (Bulldozer based) next year on account of Intel's lackluster graphics performance.

You can only shove crap in consumer's faces so long till they realize faster crap, is still crap. Apple found out the hard way after the initial x86 switch. Consumers complained for GPU performance and they brought in NV low end chips.

Just a cold hard fact, Intel cannot make GPUs right. They fail on hardware, and they fail on drivers. The difference between a Mac user and a PC user is about ~$500-$1000. For that extra cost, they have the right to be upset when their Mac can't run anything. It'll only take so long till it happens again and Apple is forced to reintroduce discrete in lowends. By then, the price ratio with AMD APUs will look mighty tempting.

 

[de.das.dude]

fanboys are retards, they buy a bad product just because they don't like other company. The bulldozer will make more AMD fanboys then ever be for cause that's how fanboys starts, they buy a bad product, defend it and hate the other company for releasing something better.

hey, you sound like one too you know?

I don't actually hate AMD or any other company for that matter... Except Rambus. Those f* patent trolls can crash and burn.

ORLY?...

It's my belief that AMD are no better than Intel ethically. They simply have either not been caught or didn't have the opportunity. In short, in Intel's shoes I think they'd be just as ruthless and underhanded, maybe even worse.
My suggestion is not to let these moral issues get in the way of you buying an Intel CPU to get better performance.

..haha qubit hates AMD LOL.

I think the fact that for the short time that AMD was in the lead, they resorted to all the "shady" business practices that Intel did is kind of proof of that.
They were just as quick to charge $1000 for their processors, and make shady under the table deals with OEMs.

back in those days, with high manufacturing costs, 1000$ isnt a shady for something that is kick ass.

sure they had $1k cpus. it was their top of the line product... they also had lower prices for other tiers. I recall that I didnt buy it at the time

but this is besides the point. Intel has been found guilty of illegal business practices internationally. AMD has always been guilty of trying to out-innovate

so true. somehow i feel that intel closely observes AMD's mistakes and hence thats how they improve. i bet if AMD stayed shut for a couple of years, intel would be poop.

These BD kill Xeons in data mining!

I speculate that is was AMD's move to get some heat off of them

this way they will be able to continue building a high-end cpu if they want to and just say that they changed their mind upon an announcement of a new high-end cpu. they would have plenty of time to work on it cause no one would be expecting it from them

it seems they are focusing on the larger more profitable markets and APUs to me

this might be true. i dont think they will stop at AM3+. there will at least be an AM4.

they might go over completely to FM sockets and make more kick ass APUs there.