Intel Skylake De-lidded, Reveals Tiny Die

btarunr · Aug 10, 2015

When Japanese tech publication PC Watch got under the hood (lid) of a Core i7-6700K quad-core processor, what they found was an unexpectedly small silicon, that's shorter in proportion to its width, than previous dies from Intel, such as Haswell-D, and Ivy Bridge-D. It's smaller than even the i7-5775C, despite the same 14 nm process, because of its slimmer integrated graphics core with just 24 execution units (compared to 48 on the i7-5775C), and the lack of an external 128 MB SRAM cache for the iGPU.

The substrate Intel is using on the i7-6700K was found to be slimmer than the one on the i7-4770K, at 0.8 mm thick, compared to 1.1 mm on the latter. The thicker IHS (integrated heatspreader) makes up for the thinner substrate, so it shouldn't cause problems with using your older LGA1150 coolers on the new socket. Intel is using a rather viscous silver-based TIM between the die and the IHS. The die is closer to the center of the IHS than its predecessors were. PC Watch swapped out the stock TIM with Prolimatech PK-3 and Cool Laboratory Liquid Pro, and found some impressive drops in temperatures at stock speed (4.00 GHz) and with a mild overclock (4.60 GHz).

View at TechPowerUp Main Site

RejZoR · Aug 10, 2015

Stupid cheap TIM again. FU Intel. You charge bloody 400€ for this thing and you can't use a drop of solder on it... *sigh*

The Von Matrices · Aug 10, 2015

The small die reminds me of the Pentium III

pozoliu · Aug 10, 2015

OMG is the reincarnation of the Pentium III

MxPhenom 216 · Aug 10, 2015

RejZoR said:
Stupid cheap TIM again. FU Intel. You charge bloody 400€ for this thing and you can't use a drop of solder on it... *sigh*

Its not the TIM thats crap, its the black adhesive they use that expands when it gets hot so it causes a gap between the die and the IHS.

bogami · Aug 10, 2015

Well again, it will be better to remove the cover and 10 or mor degrees celziusa differences increasing the number of open multipliers on i76700K and i76600k. 5 Gh no problem with the water cooling. They cut a lot of graphic power against i75775 Cand i75775C can be opened at 5 gh without problem. 14 nm wonderful !
in good RAM and SSD RAID options expect a very springy computer on 5gh +.
But for now I'll stick to the 22 nm because the difference is too small in the final rezultatu.tudi here 5 gh do the job. Unfortunately, I am not so rich to be able to quickly rotate processor , ram and board.

esrever · Aug 10, 2015

Intel's profit margin must be insane for these. They are just making bank selling small dies that would used to be low end chips. 6 years ago, for $350 would get you a chip 3x this size and intel wouldn't make nearly as much profit per chip.

Sony Xperia S · Aug 10, 2015

MxPhenom 216 said:
Its not the TIM thats crap, its the black adhesive they use that expands when it gets hot so it causes a gap between the die and the IHS.

It's obvious that something is wrong with Intel's setting.

Do they intentionally keep or like to keep temperatures so high?
Are they so stupid or blind not to be able to see and fix these thermal inconveniences?

Intel are to be f***** !

RejZoR · Aug 10, 2015

I'm not sure what to go with. Skylake 6700k quad-core or Haswell-E 5820k hex-core. Price wise they are around the same, but Skylake is 14nm and clocked higher. Having 6 cores and 12 threads is tempting though. I had my i7 920 with 8 threads when most people were still on dual cores and normal 4 thread quads...

But I think higher clock with less cores would benefit me more since I'm more into gaming and 4C-8T configuration already serves me well.

GreiverBlade · Aug 10, 2015

RejZoR said:
Stupid cheap TIM again. FU Intel. You charge bloody 400€ for this thing and you can't use a drop of solder on it... *sigh*

more and more ... i feel your over-negativity ... tho i can't see why you even bother to care about: your i7-920 is plenty (even if a 4690K or 4790K would also be a upgrade and boast a bit better thermal solution over std haswell and maybe std skylake)

yet i can bet if you did not read about that and got one, you wouldn't even notice it.

tho: one more reason to stay with what i have (Devil's Canyon are near perfect and still up for some year if needed)

tho the "cheap TIM" (well if silver based ... let's laugh maybe they use the AS5 urgh ... one more reason for delidding and swap TIM) is an advantage for those who know, and want to delid their CPU (compared to solder ... less a pita)

/warning sarcasm and joking mostly/ and also solder on mainstream? at 400$ ? don't laugh solder is only for 1000$ and more HEDT class (nope the 5820K is not a HEDT at only 200$ more than a 6700K ) or so they try to make you believe so they can charge 600 more for nearly nothing more in the end (what 2 core more and quad channel DDR4 is worth 600$??? /Warning's end/

step 2: prepare for Skylake-DT refresh with better thermal solution.

RejZoR said:
I'm not sure what to go with. Skylake 6700k quad-core or Haswell-E 5820k hex-core. Price wise they are around the same, but Skylake is 14nm and clocked higher. Having 6 cores and 12 threads is tempting though. I had my i7 920 with 8 threads when most people were still on dual cores and normal 4 thread quads...

But I think higher clock with less cores would benefit me more since I'm more into gaming and 4C-8T configuration already serves me well.

Sony Xperia S · Aug 10, 2015

Tiny die because of AMD's absence.

You will see that when AMD is back and competitive with Zen, Intel will magically drop bigger and more serious stuff.

RejZoR · Aug 10, 2015

Why is solder on 400€ CPU a shocker? In the past ALL CPU's had soldered dies to the IHS. And now it's some sort of exotic?

I need to switch because my system is acting funny for the past few months and I just don't have the nerves anymore to deal with it. I'll try few more things today, but I think I'll just switch in September when supply of 6700k becomes a bit more steady and price hopefully drops a bit as well...

If there were no general issues I'd just stay with i7 920...

GreiverBlade · Aug 10, 2015

Sony Xperia S said:
Tiny die because of AMD's absence.

You will see that when AMD is back and competitive with Zen, Intel will magically drop bigger and more serious stuff.

i just gonna go for a *facepalm*....

die size=seriousness level???? of course the die is smaller than Broadwell, even with the same 14nm process the igp is not the same (totally required a ... iris IGP on a desktop i7 ... just a basic one would be enough for flashing purpose or GPU problems troubleshooting) and no eDram

RejZoR said:
Why is solder on 400€ CPU a shocker? In the past ALL CPU's had soldered dies to the IHS. And now it's some sort of exotic?

I need to switch because my system is acting funny for the past few months and I just don't have the nerves anymore to deal with it. I'll try few more things today, but I think I'll just switch in September when supply of 6700k becomes a bit more steady and price hopefully drops a bit as well...

If there were no general issues I'd just stay with i7 920...

or you can go like some do (not me ofc ...) and take a 4690K 4790K, pay less and get near the same performance level and paying even less by using DDR3 (which is also still in the race )
i will be praying (not that i am a believer but it might work :laugh:

)that you don't run into issue with you new CPU or win 10 or any hardware you will get... to avoid a streak of over-negativity again

oh god ALL CPU in the past had solder i forgot that, also where the manufacturing cost the same?

ps: i would not be shocked by a solder on a 400$ CPU tho ... i am not shocked,either, of the opposite ...
well mostly because i did wait Haswell's refresh and got a 4690K and only paid around 250$ and get the same perf ingame than my friend who use a 4790K and a 980 (tho he use the latest driver for that one ... and chain complain about issue while i tell him to revert to 347.88 and stay on win 7 until win 10 issues are solved)

(sidenote... half related Win 10 on the laptop well it seems the HD5500 in the i5-5200U like the upgrade, i noticed a increase of 4fps in FFXIVHW :laugh:

oh well at last that make it from 26ish to 30ish)

Sony Xperia S · Aug 10, 2015

GreiverBlade said:
die size=seriousness level?

Yes and I do not see why you are so shocked.

Reduce die size even further and you will see even bigger performance drop.

Increase the die, for example twice or quadruple, get rid of the graphics part which people won't use anyways, and you will get a very beautiful multiple-core processing unit.

Anvirol · Aug 10, 2015

RejZoR said:
I'm not sure what to go with. Skylake 6700k quad-core or Haswell-E 5820k hex-core. Price wise they are around the same, but Skylake is 14nm and clocked higher. Having 6 cores and 12 threads is tempting though. I had my i7 920 with 8 threads when most people were still on dual cores and normal 4 thread quads...

But I think higher clock with less cores would benefit me more since I'm more into gaming and 4C-8T configuration already serves me well.

E series CPU's have much higher TDP and also X-series motherboard VRM's run very hot.
You have to decide if you want to spend more money on energy bills (and warm up your room).

I have 3930k 6-core CPU and tbh. it's not worth it unless you are constantly rendering videos or 3D.

GreiverBlade · Aug 10, 2015

Sony Xperia S said:
Yes and I do not see why you are so shocked.

Reduce die size even further and you will see even bigger performance drop.

Increase the die, for example twice or quadruple, get rid of the graphics part which people won't use anyways, and you will get a very beautiful multiple-core processing unit.

i am not shocked (a "facepalm" is not used to express shock ...) ... and ... your explanation is totally off, or it's your understanding who is ...
it's not only competition that rules that ... also manufacturing cost ... tho indeed intel is touching himself with Skylake (as he did with Broadwell too) and i agree on the graphic part, AS I EXPLAINED IN THAT LINE IN MY PREVIOUS POST,

GreiverBlade said:
(totally required a ... iris IGP on a desktop i7 ... just a basic one would be enough for flashing purpose or GPU problems troubleshooting)

tho i still implied that a basic one could be useful in case of discrete gpu problems or flash, i was happy that my XEON E3-1275v2 had a IGP when i needed to flash a 6950 then a 7870 and last but not least a 7950

m.s.1988 · Aug 10, 2015

Is Skylake limited AVX clock to TDP like Haswell-EP?
Skylake with the stock interface at 4.6GHz on running prime95 v28.5 Small FFTs is much cooler than 4790k at 4.6GHz.

FordGT90Concept · Aug 10, 2015

esrever said:
Intel's profit margin must be insane for these. They are just making bank selling small dies that would used to be low end chips. 6 years ago, for $350 would get you a chip 3x this size and intel wouldn't make nearly as much profit per chip.

I suspect a lot of it is going to process tech research. The cost of finding ways to go smaller has already started rising for Intel (demonstrated by the facepalm that is Broadwell). It'll get worse the smaller it gets until an alternative is implemented.

Intel is making a lot of money but they are a far, far cry from other tech companies like Microsoft and Apple.

Naito · Aug 10, 2015

RejZoR said:
Stupid cheap TIM again. FU Intel. You charge bloody 400€ for this thing and you can't use a drop of solder on it... *sigh*

Man, you have a lot of pent-up rage for Intel...

GreiverBlade · Aug 10, 2015

Naito said:
Man, you have a lot of pent-up rage for Intel...

not only Intel ... unfortunately

radrok · Aug 10, 2015

Can't wait to see how many cores this shrink will bring to the Xeons. I'm predicting atleast 28 :toast:

RejZoR · Aug 10, 2015

Naito said:
Man, you have a lot of pent-up rage for Intel...

What, should I praise them to infinity while they are f**king us in the rear? We have a term for that and it's called FANBOY. Also, for your reference, I'm using an Intel CPU and this isn't the first one that I've had.

Naito · Aug 10, 2015

RejZoR said:
What, should I praise them to infinity while they are f**king us in the rear? We have a term for that and it's called FANBOY. Also, for your reference, I'm using an Intel CPU and this isn't the first one that I've had.

Intel is American. American corporations are generally capitalist. Besides, with more technology heading towards a mobile future, Intel is more likely going to be concentrating on efficiency over outright gigahertz. Furthermore, the small the node, the harder it it is to keep things like tunneling leakage under control. Unfortunately enthusiasts are the small minority when it comes to Intel's income; big businesses are probably looking to cut their carbon footprint and save money. I suppose Intel just has different goals to what enthusiasts want them to have, especially when the competition is falling short of the mark.

Assimilator · Aug 10, 2015

RejZoR said:
What, should I praise them to infinity while they are f**king us in the rear? We have a term for that and it's called FANBOY. Also, for your reference, I'm using an Intel CPU and this isn't the first one that I've had.

I consider myself an Intel fanboy and I'm also very disappointed by the continued use of crappy TIM. An 18 degree drop is absolutely massive and could easily be the difference between a mediocre overclock and a decent one. Throw us a frickin' bone Intel!

The only potential upside, if it can be called that, is that Intel might decide to do another Devil's Canyon series but for Skylake (6790K ?) - then we will get decent TIM. Of course, there will also be a price premium for such CPUs over standard Skylake...

RejZoR · Aug 10, 2015

If enthusiasts are such tiny minority, then why do they have entire product line aimed exclusively at them (the E variants)?

EDIT:
They don't mention how they measured the temperature. With new TIM and re-lidded or new TIM and direct contact to a cooler. Because direct contact will ALWAYS be better (by a lot)...

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Intel Skylake De-lidded, Reveals Tiny Die

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator

RejZoR

The Von Matrices

pozoliu

New Member

MxPhenom 216

ASIC Engineer

bogami

esrever

Sony Xperia S

RejZoR

GreiverBlade

Sony Xperia S

RejZoR

GreiverBlade

Sony Xperia S

Anvirol

GreiverBlade

m.s.1988

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FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"

Naito

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