German Company to Sell Binned Core i7 8700K With 99.9% Silver Heatspreader

[Assimilator]

Main question her is, why doesn't Intel use top of the line thermal compound and charge I don't know, 15€ more? Surely such tiny premium would still give them massive profit margin on each CPU (where they use cheap generic crap and charge nothing extra for it) while giving users better thermals than with crappy generic paste.

Because the majority of CPUs sold - even the unlocked K SKUs - are never overclocked. In fact, a lot of people buy the K SKUs and use them on non-Z-series boards simply because they have higher speeds than the ordinary ones (e.g. i7-8700 = 3.2GHz base/4.6GHz boost, 8700K = 3.7/4.7). From Intel's viewpoint, they can either spend a bit more on adding a feature that the vast majority of their users will never need nor want... or they could charge a slightly lower price and move more units. Being a capitalist company that exists to make money, which option do you think they're gonna choose?

"So why does Ryzen use solder then?" I can't say for certain, and there's no way to know since removing its IHS destroys the chip, but I'm pretty sure that solder is the only way that AMD could get acceptable thermals on Ryzen. A side effect is that a soldered IHS is good PR for AMD, something they desperately need after Bulldozer (a monkey that will be hanging on their back for many years to come).

I'm quite certain that if AMD could get away with using crap TIM, they would. We may even see it on the next iteration of Ryzen, assuming Samsung/GloFo can actually tweak their process to allow higher clocks than 4GHz.

I mean, people don't realize that what Intel is doing is essentially causing you to effectively use 2 layers of thermal compound. The more of this crap you stack, the worse things are. Back in the day of 25W and 60W top end CPU's it didn't even matter. But now with 6+ cores and really high clocks, every little matters. Not to mention heatspreaders came later, in the beginning all CPU's were "delided" from factory. They all had direct contact with the cooler.

The reason "heat"spreaders were introduced was far more to do with preventing CPU dies being destroyed by the ever-larger and ever-more-tightly-pressing coolers that were being released, than due to heat dissipation concerns.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Point not missed on me. Though it's totally irrelevant. Why? Because copper does the same thing. And it's widely used for such purposes(not nickel plated in heat sinks, or nickel plating removed from IHS by lapping). And...you said it yourself...exposure to air it what causes it. There is no exposure to air when covered in TIM. So oxidation is not going to happen. And you're blowing the effects of oxidation way out of proportion anyway. It's a microscopic layer that has no real/significant impact on thermal conductivity. That's laughable.

Before commenting, I wish to express no insult is intended.
The problem with your statement is that it reveals your misunderstanding of the material being discussed. Silver is very reactive with oxygen and it's oxides are oxygen permeable. This means that after silver oxidizes, oxygen will "soak" straight through the oxide layers and continue to react with the silver underneath. This is why silver tarnishes and continues to do so over time. And when heat is applied the reaction increases. Applying that knowledge to this topic of discussion, 99.9% pure silver begins to oxidize the moment it's created and will continue so long as oxygen is present in it's surroundings. In the case of a TIM, that will be applied only after silver oxide layering begins and unless you cover the entire surface with a TIM that is not oxygen permeable, the process of oxidation will continue through the surface of the IHS under the TIM itself. Within a year, thermal conductivity will fall below a level needed to prevent the die from heat damage. This is why silver is NOT used as a heatsink material, unless alloyed with other metals. This is research that has already been done. Research that the company involved has either ignored or was too incompetent to look up.

 

[Rahmat Sofyan]

That is very "intelligent" . .

New world record I guess ☺ . .

 

[dorsetknob]

This is entering territory of audiophile audio cables crafted by elves in moonlight.

seriously they work you can hear all the high notes the Fairy folk sing and the low subsonic troll grumbles i Swear by them

 

[GoldenX]

First World problems, textbook definition.

 

[trog100]

how all this really works.. team A and team B.. only two teams in the so called race.. one team has better technology more money or whatever.. the bottom line is one team has a faster product than the other team..

they pretend to race.. but in reality one team is just cruising not running any faster than it has to to stay in front.. the other team is really trying to catch up.. sometime it might appear to catch up or get close but the other cruising team will always have some performance in reserve.. we call this over clocking but it aint really.. its just using some of that reserve that the stronger team will always have..

one team might well use solder instead of cheaper tim.. but its only cos they have to..

its kind of sad really because the always weaker team never does get a just reward for it efforts.. but its the way life works..

trog

 

[dj-electric]

What annoys me the most is that people think the 8700K is uncontrollably hot, witch is completely un-true.
Most users with a decent air cooler will get good results. Those who stay at normal 4.3Ghz all-core clocks can use 25$ coolers.

I'm running an 8700K right now at 4.9Ghz 1.284-1.306v on a rather simple watercooling loop. No TIM change, no de-lid

 

[hat]

These are obviously for people who want the best of the best and are able to pay top dollar for it. Is it a good value? No way, not to me or even most people that visit this forum, but for those that have the money to burn... Sure, why not. You're paying a huge premium for the best of the best, and even if what you gain isn't worth the money you pay... Well, I guess that's up to the buyer to decide.

 

[Totally]

I'll just pretend i didn't read this. Anything with the derbrowner trademark can be safely ignored.

LOL! That's exactly what I did when I saw the silly logo.

 

[ShurikN]

seriously they work you can hear all the high notes the Fairy folk sing and the low subsonic troll grumbles i Swear by them

Quality cables do make a difference (although small), but once you pass the 30 dollar mark, it's all snake oil.

 

[R-T-B]

Quality cables do make a difference (although small), but once you pass the 30 dollar mark, it's all snake oil.

Depends on whether the signal is analog or digital.

If digital, there is essentially no difference at all between cables that meet spec, cost be damned.

 

[Totally]

These are obviously for people who want the best of the best and are able to pay top dollar for it. Is it a good value? No way, not to me or even most people that visit this forum, but for those that have the money to burn... Sure, why not. You're paying a huge premium for the best of the best, and even if what you gain isn't worth the money you pay... Well, I guess that's up to the buyer to decide.

Rationally speaking how many chips aren't hitting 5.0 ghz on air? Even then if they aren't that far off. 100-200 Mhz beyond that doesn't offer anything tangible other than bragging rights which kind of tarnishes that aspect since the chip was bought for it's bin.

 

[RejZoR]

Before commenting, I wish to express no insult is intended.
The problem with your statement is that it reveals your misunderstanding of the material being discussed. Silver is very reactive with oxygen and it's oxides are oxygen permeable. This means that after silver oxidizes, oxygen will "soak" straight through the oxide layers and continue to react with the silver underneath. This is why silver tarnishes and continues to do so over time. And when heat is applied the reaction increases. Applying that knowledge to this topic of discussion, 99.9% pure silver begins to oxidize the moment it's created and will continue so long as oxygen is present in it's surroundings. In the case of a TIM, that will be applied only after silver oxide layering begins and unless you cover the entire surface with a TIM that is not oxygen permeable, the process of oxidation will continue through the surface of the IHS under the TIM itself. Within a year, thermal conductivity will fall below a level needed to prevent the die from heat damage. This is why silver is NOT used as a heatsink material, unless alloyed with other metals. This is research that has already been done. Research that the company involved has either ignored or was too incompetent to look up.

It's why contacts are gold platted, because gold doesn't exidize like silver

 

[yotano211]

These processors will be bought by people who like to chase benchmark scores. I know 1 or 2 people who like to chase the top benchmark scores and score in the top 100 in the world or something like that. I dont know if these guys go into stores to buy their own processors or just buy them from places like this.

 

[GoldenX]

These processors will be bought by people who like to chase benchmark scores. I know 1 or 2 people who like to chase the top benchmark scores and score in the top 100 in the world or something like that. I dont know if these guys go into stores to buy their own processors or just buy them from places like this.

Good results on air/water don't guarantee good results on LN2.

 

[lexluthermiester]

It's why contacts are gold platted, because gold doesn't oxidize like silver

Exactly.

 

[Vayra86]

What annoys me the most is that people think the 8700K is uncontrollably hot, witch is completely un-true.
Most users with a decent air cooler will get good results. Those who stay at normal 4.3Ghz all-core clocks can use 25$ coolers.

I'm running an 8700K right now at 4.9Ghz 1.284-1.306v on a rather simple watercooling loop. No TIM change, no de-lid

And this is the nail on the head. There is a tangible shift in people's minds as to what is a good temperature or safe temperature for a CPU to run at. Somehow, people now are convinced that because a delid shaves off 20 C, you NEED to run at 20-30C below throttle points or its not cool enough. It makes no sense, it has no bearing on the end performance, and it does not help the longevity of the CPU to a degree that one would ever notice.

Its a slippery slope of misinformed customers making misinformed decisions. Already, even without the delid stories, we have forum topics left and right asking if 80 C is 'a safe temp' for whatever component... even though millions upon millions of components all over the world run that temp for years. And again: I have respect for people delidding their own CPUs as an enthusiast. But I have zero of that for people who simply buy the enthusiast dream; that reminds me a lot of people who EBAY an MMO account so they can go straight into end game and 'own everyone'. Its really quite twisted, like cheating in multiplayer environments.

Yes, this is the power of marketing, advertising, and of connecting your free blogs and guides to a store model with your own branded products. And that is why I get the foul taste. I really could care less about someone making money, but I can only have respect for a business model that is sound, and has integrity. This one has none.

 

[Tsukiyomi91]

if temps is everyone's concern, try getting a 360mm, 420mm or a massive 480mm rad to cool down your 8700K, without de-lidding it. Just a generous amount of Kryonaut thermal paste & be done with it. U won't get any hotter than 80C & hit the magical 5GHz stable.

 

[trog100]

i think everyone needs to admit that the "magical" 5ghz is just that.. symbolism.. f-ck all else..

trog

 

[ZoneDymo]

It's sad that this is even a thing. It's like Intel wants to look inferior.. and intentionally loses the "monopoly" the EU accuses them of

pretty sure the EU accuses them of shady behind the curtain deals so vendors push Intel products instead of AMD

 

[Imsochobo]

seriously they work you can hear all the high notes the Fairy folk sing and the low subsonic troll grumbles i Swear by them

I've spent thousands on thousands on good sound system, there is absolutely no difference that can be found.
Not on a scope, not to the sound registered.

If signal cables are analog they can make a difference, if it's digital (HDMI, DP etc) no change.
Speaker cables - Unless you have kw engines that have powercables next to the speaker cables : no difference.

But delid is completely different as there is a major noticeable change.

 

[der8auer]

He's making a little money doing what he loves, so people are going to pour hate on him out of jealousy. Binning, delidding, and repasting takes time, and those custom lids are not cheap. He's a nice guy, always answering forum posts on hwbot and ocn. He's a hardware enthusiast, just like us, but he really gives back to the community. All of his tutorials on overclocking.guide didn't write themselves, and they are free to view. That said, I wouldn't buy this. I delid and overclock my own stuff because it's fun.

This ^^^^^^ haha

Love all the mature comments tho Wonder what would happen if I'd start to insult random people like you guys do it on the forums here....

Sure...K|NGP|N does it...it's fine. der8auer does it...it's shameless self-promotion bordering on false advertisement.

Silicon Lottery.com does it...it's fine. CaseKing.de does it...it's somehow controversial.

Double standard much?

This, too Basically we do it because customers ask for it and of course any project like this is great for marketing (as you can see with your comments )

why "derbauer".... after his publicity stunt on the Core i9 + high VRM temps that got debunked, I doubt ppl will spend 700 Euros for a binned chip with his name on it... Rather let RNGezus decide my silicon luck.

debunked? Not sure if srs. Did you watch stuff as the OC3D update video where he confirmed it?
Ever wondered why all X399 Boards have different heatsinks now than compared to computex launch?
Why does ASUS update the Apex heatsink? Why is there a new X299 Strix with updated heatsink? Why does ASRock OC Formula suddenly have a 2nd heatsink connected with heatpipe?

 

[dorsetknob]

Sorry mate Your in The Public Eye (Smirk even if Some people "have never Heard of You" Oh the Children today)

You have to Expect to Be Trolled Ect By The ignorant and misinformed it Goes with Fame/infamy
some of us Respect you and Your Achievement's

Glad you Visited to put your Point of View You must Visit More Often

 

[Readlight]

Who cares no problem running Pentium D and Athlon 5000+ on Windows 7 i5 2400 is like premium to us.

 

[der8auer]

Sorry mate Your in The Public Eye (Smirk even if Some people "have never Heard of You" Oh the Children today)

You have to Expect to Be Trolled Ect By The ignorant and misinformed it Goes with Fame/infamy
some of us Respect you and Your Achievement's

Glad you Visited to put your Point of View You must Visit More Often

Thanks mate haha

I learned over the years that the internet is not a nice place

Wish I had more time to check and reply on all forums tho. There is just too many of them =)