AMD Announces Radeon Rays and Radeon GPU Profiler 1.2 at GDC 2018

[Fluffmeister]

Yep Mantle was never open, although it did some good for the competition as it helped inspire Nvidia to make their DX11 path uber svelte

 

[Imsochobo]

They talk much but i haven't seen anything good on Vulkan who works great.

Wolfenstein ?

 

[bug]

Yep Mantle was never open, although it did some good for the competition as it helped inspire Nvidia to make their DX11 path uber svelte

Mantle was simply the world of consoles brought to PC.
To this day I can't figure out if Microsoft was resisting this and AMD used Mantle to strongarm them or AMD wanted to get a headstart and rushed into a doomed project.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Mantle was simply the world of consoles brought to PC.
To this day I can't figure out if Microsoft was resisting this and AMD used Mantle to strongarm them or AMD wanted to get a headstart and rushed into a doomed project.

Maybe a little of both? Still, without Mantle we wouldn't have the excellent Vulkan. So it all worked out in the end. And now everyone has ray-tracing which will make game all that much prettier.

 

[HTC]

Maybe a little of both? Still, without Mantle we wouldn't have the excellent Vulkan. So it all worked out in the end. And now everyone has ray-tracing which will make game all that much prettier.

Not 100% sure but i bet Mantle also help with DX12 being launched "sooner". After several years of DX11 with little to no improvements, Mantle forced Microsoft to finally finally deliver an improvement over DX11 ... which they then borked by restricting it to Windows 10 only ...

I'm convinced that, should Microsoft had launch DX12 not restricted to Windows 10, DX12's adoption would be higher by now then it currently is ... but that's something to discuss in another topic.

 

[Readlight]

Wolfenstein ?

They all don't work and if something works its 10 fps less than dx11

 

[bug]

Maybe a little of both? Still, without Mantle we wouldn't have the excellent Vulkan. So it all worked out in the end. And now everyone has ray-tracing which will make game all that much prettier.

Even that is debatable. Closer to the metal APIs were already a thing on consoles, I believe they would have make the jump to PC at some point. Judging by the adoption rate of both DX12 and Vulkan, we got them too soon anyway. As a personal opinion, AMD would have been better off investing in other areas (a better Polaris/Vega maybe?) instead, but that's just me.
What's certain is Mantle certainly didn't hurt the adoption of those APIs on the PC.

 

[lexluthermiester]

They all don't work and if something works its 10 fps less than dx11

That is completely incorrect. If you are only getting 10fps from games running in Vulkan, you need an upgrade. For example the newest Doom runs better in Vulkan.

 

[Imsochobo]

That is completely incorrect. If you are only getting 10fps from games running in Vulkan, you need an upgrade. For example the newest Doom runs better in Vulkan.

Agreed, my gtx 970 ran 4K in wolfenstein, I haven't seen any other game capable of doing anything like that at anything higher than low IQ settings.
Doom, Wolfenstein games run damn smooth! mighty impressed!

 

[Patriot]

You ain't got a clue what you're talking about if you can't even tell that this has nothing to do with mining.

Horrible attempt at trolling the thread.

-.- Let me help you out.
(sarcastically implying that all amd cards are used for mining and no gaming improvements will matter to them)

That is completely incorrect. If you are only getting 10fps from games running in Vulkan, you need an upgrade. For example the newest Doom runs better in Vulkan.

Some games have lower FPS in Vulkan and DX12 than DX11 across the board, newer cards are typically hurt worse or do better.
That said, closer to metal API's put the burden on the game devs rather than having bloaty libraries doing things for them... the implementation matters.
Games ported from DX11 to vulkan are less likely to be performant than games built from the ground up for vulkan.

 

[kruk]

They all don't work and if something works its 10 fps less than dx11

Replace your CPU, I already said it in another thread. An Athlon X2 is not enough to feed a RX 460.

 

[Vya Domus]

Some games have lower FPS in Vulkan and DX12 than DX11 across the board, newer cards are typically hurt worse or do better.

Vulkan and DX12 do not inherently hurt performance on any cards.

I still don't know where you heading with this , it has nothing to do with mining sarcastically or not.

 

[T4C Fantasy]

Vulkan is open source (successor to OpenGL), Mantle was proprietory hence why it failed.

Which gpus are vulkan capable? DX10 and up or is there another way to know?

 

[Patriot]

Vulkan and DX12 do not inherently hurt performance on any cards.

I still don't know where you heading with this , it has nothing to do with mining sarcastically or not.

Oh dear, explanation take 3.
DX12 and Vulkan require more work... Ported games can contain the bottlenecks of dx11 and don't gain the potential benefits of the new api's as it is up to the game devs to use them. Less libraries babying them, it is up to them to performance tune... if they don't performance wont get better.

Of course mining has nothing to do with gaming... that's the joke.
Is there a language barrier here or do you not understand what sarcasm is?

 

[lexluthermiester]

Which gpus are vulkan capable? DX10 and up or is there another way to know?

Based on this list; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulkan_(API) scrolling down to the compatibility section, it would seem like a very wide range of GPU's, old and new. How many can actually run it effectively would require testing.

 

[Readlight]

Replace your CPU, I already said it in another thread. An Athlon X2 is not enough to feed a RX 460.

If Rocket League, Halo, and other improved games work on 60 fps i don't need waste 400 euro for new parts to play these expensive games like Rise of the Tomb Raider, Hitman, Doom,..

 

[lexluthermiester]

If Rocket League, Halo, and other improved games work on 60 fps i don't need waste 400 euro for new parts to play these expensive games like Rise of the Tomb Raider, Hitman, Doom,..

Gonna have agree with Kruk. You need a more capable CPU if you expect better performance from your RX460. You are severely bottlenecking that card with that CPU. And a decent upgrade is not expensive. If your mobo is an AM2+, there are plenty of great and currently inexpensive options that will greatly improve your gaming experience. Phenom X4's are dead cheap and will offer a big boost to performance.

 

[Vayra86]

They all don't work and if something works its 10 fps less than dx11

Doom disagrees @ Vulkan
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1080_Ti_Gaming_X/13.html

DX12
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1080_Ti_Gaming_X/8.html

DX12 CPU heavy
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1080_Ti_Gaming_X/26.html

 

[londiste]

Vayra86,
Warhammer is known to be faster in DX11 for all cards.
Battlefield is (or all Battlefields are) known to run better with DX11 primarily due to microstuffer.
DOOM is truly better with Vulkan over OpenGL but that is due to aging OpenGL and manufacturer-specific optimizations in Vulkan version.

 

[bug]

Vayra86,
Warhammer is known to be faster in DX11 for all cards.
Battlefield is (or all Battlefields are) known to run better with DX11 primarily due to microstuffer.
DOOM is truly better with Vulkan over OpenGL but that is due to aging OpenGL and manufacturer-specific optimizations in Vulkan version.

Neah, it's not that. ID have traditionally preferred to work with OpenGL as it was open and cross-platform. They have above average expertise. And it seems this continues with Vulkan.

The issue was never whether Vulkan in faster than OpenGL. We know it can be and we know there are scenarios where it won't be. The real issue is what will the average developer be able to do with it. And so far the average developer seems to be pretty good at dodging these "closer to the metal" APIs.

 

[londiste]

There is a good reason for dodging them. Unless you are top of the line engine developer, you really will not be able to get all the benefits out of them. Both developers and API designers have said that "closer to the metal" also puts heavier burden on the game/engine developer while older APIs (especially DX11) do some work for them.

id Software is one of the handful of best engine developers, along with DICE, Unreal, Crytek and couple others.

 

[bug]

There is a good reason for dodging them. Unless you are top of the line engine developer, you really will not be able to get all the benefits out of them. Both developers and API designers have said that "closer to the metal" also puts heavier burden on the game/engine developer while older APIs (especially DX11) do some work for them.

id Software is one of the handful of best engine developers, along with DICE, Unreal, Crytek and couple others.

You don't have to be a top of the line developer to reap the benefits. It's just that the setup is more complex and work the the OpenGL driver does for you ends up on your lap with Vulkan. And if you weren't CPU bottlenecked in the first place, the end result won't be much faster (if at all). It's all a matter of return on investment really.

My guess, professional CAD software may be where Vulkan is more suited. That and it's now mandatory on Android, where you are CPU constrained again, but for different reasons (i.e. weaker CPU, not more demanding software).

 

[Vayra86]

Vayra86,
Warhammer is known to be faster in DX11 for all cards.
Battlefield is (or all Battlefields are) known to run better with DX11 primarily due to microstuffer.
DOOM is truly better with Vulkan over OpenGL but that is due to aging OpenGL and manufacturer-specific optimizations in Vulkan version.

True, but that is a far cry from 'don't work at all or produce 10 fps less'. All of these examples provide very playable framerates on the API. And all of the DX12's are DX11 built titles, with years of optimization behind them... its not really fair to say they should suddenly increase performance going to DX12 when essentially every bottleneck was removed from DX11 prior. If anything it shows the pretty great state DX11 is in right now.