Steam AAA Bleed Continues: Anno 1800 to be UPlay and Epic Games Store Exclusive

[vega22]

Valve offers much much more (not bribing though) to real developers compared to anyone else, their 20 to 30% cut is justified most of the times.

Like what?

Their main edge is userbase, nothing else.

Their engine is antiquated and while the documentation is ok, unreal and unity is as good for a much more advanced game engine.

They don't offer grants to Indies like epic, or as much free content or even the same level of interaction with Devs as you get from both unreal and unity.

Valve have needed a kick up the arse like this for years, I just hope they do react and don't think they can keep selling old rope like they have since origin, uplay and battlenet all took titles away from them.

 

[Deleted member 67555]

I want a unified gaming app that doesn't fuck with my game settings and doesn't bother me with what place it was purchased at... I'm sick to death with all these fucking store fronts... I could give a shit less who the middle man is..I just wanna play the damn games...fuck off with this stupid exclusive bullshit.
Fucking stupid people.

 

[neatfeatguy]

Steam needs to make it so if you advertise your game on Steam, by putting your game on Steams store, you agree to launch it there. Back out, pay the divorce fees.

But then you walk a fine line - bully companies with your legal crap and slap them with fines if they back out (for whatever reason). Companies will see other launchers without these things in the contract and go with them, while avoiding Steam. (now, that's just a guess on my end, I don't know how any other company handles how offering games on their platforms and what happens when a company pulls it).

If Steam were the only company to have a contract like that, would you want to deal with them when there are other venues you could go through to sell your game?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the move was covered by their contracts. What I was hinting at is I wouldn't mind seeing these moves forbidden. You took advantage of pre-orders? Sell on that store for 6-12 months at least.
At the same time, I realize this was caused by Epic Store not being around when per-orders started. Maybe without this particular conjecture, we won't see dick moves like this again.

It would be nice if they were bound to keep their game selling IF they offer it as a pre-sale and at least 1 copy of the game is sold, to be held to keeping the game on Steam for a short duration of at least 3 months. It would prevent a company from offering it on Steam, netting sales and then running away from Steam before the launch date.

 

[Vayra86]

I want a unified gaming app that doesn't fuck with my game settings and doesn't bother me with what place it was purchased at... I'm sick to death with all these fucking store fronts... I could give a shit less who the middle man is..I just wanna play the damn games...fuck off with this stupid exclusive bullshit.
Fucking stupid people.

Here it is

https://playnite.link/

I love it. Its even open source.

 

[bug]

@vega22 Think about their game tools for a moment

 

[oxidized]

Worst platform is an opinion mostly pushed forward by flaming reddit posts with extensive lists of feature gaps. Not by developers. Metro has no real mod support, so workshop = irrelevant and I'd say that is one of the major perks Steam can offer a developer, a mod framework. It saves dev time and adds to game popularity, so that can be translated to actual profit.

But friends lists, and other community features, trading cards... all of that is largely irrelevant to a developer looking to release a game. These perks only matter to the end user and are unrelated to the game. Also, developers don't really choose. Publishers choose, and they look at the bottom line only.

I realize its all about money, but what Steam does is not all that unique or essential to a developer or publisher. What they care about is reach of a platform and in that, Steam has better reach but we also see a steady trend of people getting their content elsewhere. So, again, we have no clue whether Steam really does have such a great offer.

Friend list, community and reviews are all thing that matter to developers too, because they'll only increase the interest people has on that game, hence buying the game, because of its "social" features, cloud for saving progress on a game is also another important thing. "Worst platform is an opinion mostly pushed forward by flaming reddit posts with extensive lists of feature gaps" I sincerely hope you're joking, you understand this makes no sense right? That list is legit and has a clear point, objective point, not subjective, those are facts, and lacking those feature make EGS worse than steam, and the worst in general, since the other smaller launchers have more feature than that. Refund? Wanna talk about it? Mods? Doesn't matter that flaming t**d of Metro doesn't have mods, many games on PC do, and that's a PC platform we're talking about. NONE and i repeat NONE of those features listed are subjectively useful, they're all OBJECTIVE USEFUL, hence subjective useless. What do you mean with "steady trend of people getting their content elsewhere"? Steam does offer more to both devs and users, which automatically means offering more to devs again. My use of devs in this discussion isn't appropriate, i know, but it's to make it understand better what i'm trying to say.

Like what?

Their main edge is userbase, nothing else.

Their engine is antiquated and while the documentation is ok, unreal and unity is as good for a much more advanced game engine.

They don't offer grants to Indies like epic, or as much free content or even the same level of interaction with Devs as you get from both unreal and unity.

Valve have needed a kick up the arse like this for years, I just hope they do react and don't think they can keep selling old rope like they have since origin, uplay and battlenet all took titles away from them.

Steam doesn't offer their engine, that's for use if you want, it's not a feature they offer with their platform, what's your point?

They offer much more Grants to indies than epic, what are you talking about. Free content? Who cares about that, besides steam offers that too. Again with the interaction of unreal engine and unity engine, what you're saying makes no sense at all, engine are a different, separate thing, that's not a feature EGS offers, per sé, nor Valve.

 

[Vayra86]

Friend list, community and reviews are all thing that matter to developers too, because they'll only increase the interest people has on that game, hence buying the game, because of its "social" features, cloud for saving progress on a game is also another important thing. "Worst platform is an opinion mostly pushed forward by flaming reddit posts with extensive lists of feature gaps" I sincerely hope you're joking, you understand this makes no sense right? That list is legit and has a clear point, objective point, not subjective, those are facts, and lacking those feature make EGS worse than steam, and the worst in general, since the other smaller launchers have more feature than that. Refund? Wanna talk about it? Mods? Doesn't matter that flaming t**d of Metro doesn't have mods, many games on PC do, and that's a PC platform we're talking about. NONE and i repeat NONE of those features listed are subjectively useful, they're all OBJECTIVE USEFUL, hence subjective useless. What do you mean with "steady trend of people getting their content elsewhere"? Steam does offer more to both devs and users, which automatically means offering more to devs again. My use of devs in this discussion isn't appropriate, i know, but it's to make it understand better what i'm trying to say.



Steam doesn't offer their engine, that's for use if you want, it's not a feature they offer with their platform, what's your point?

They offer much more Grants to indies than epic, what are you talking about. Free content? Who cares about that, besides steam offers that too. Again with the interaction of unreal engine and unity engine, what you're saying makes no sense at all, engine are a different, separate thing, that's not a feature EGS offers, per sé, nor Valve.

These things are also things customers can get elsewhere, and the actual value of these features can be another point of discussion. Again: we don't know how many people really want Steam because of these features. What I do see is that the review system is a pretty shitty place to be reading reviews (though good for general impression if you care to read a whole bunch of them, similar to metacritic ), and the community features are really not convenient at all via Steam because it ties you to the platform. When your group of buddies goes to Overwatch... what then? This is why most/many gamers actually use Discord for grouping. Thát is a popular community service. That is why I singled out mods/workshop as a real perk. Its usable, its in the right place for its purpose, and it works the same for all games. Mind you its nothing more than a framework developers can tap into, and in that, its not any different from a service like NexusMods which has been around since forever (and is still the be-all end-all place to be besides moddb - another service that's been around for ages for modding).

You're not wrong saying all of this, but you also have no clue as to how it relates to sales or profits. Its just a list of features that got implemented over time - mind you - over a decade of time and that the competition doesn't have yet... but has it on the roadmap for next year.

Try to step back from the bias and idea that Steam is objectively better. It may be to the end user, but that is really a different world than the publishers'. In the end its the publisher making the investment and taking the risk... Saying Steam is a better proposition is effectively saying all those publishers have gone crazy and you know better than all of them combined. Not something I'd go on...

About the steady trend: its clear as day that more and more content is offered outside of Steam and that the offering on Steam itself is a pretty muddy affair these days. There's so much, its a mess and titles get drowned, while the bigger releases avoid Steam altogether (Ubisoft is hit/miss, but EA consistently doesn't release on Steam, as do some others like Blizzard). Thát is also no good for a publisher that wants to get attention to its release. EGS is hands down a better idea in that sense because games are much more visible, simply because there are fewer of them.

You played the logic card earlier, isn't this pure logic?

 

[64K]

Epic has laid out their 2019 Roadmap for Store improvements a couple of weeks ago. We can watch and see if they follow through. For now I'm not signing up for an account there even for the free games until they've proven over time that they will maintain their store properly. Anyway, this is what Epic is claiming:

"According to the roadmap, Epic Games has recently implemented a Store Search feature, Free Game Notification, Code Redemption improvements, Collections and Bundles, an Offline mode, Pre-Loading and Regional Pricing.

In the next three months, Epic Games aims to implement the ability to search by genre or tag, make some improvements to the Offline Mode, overhaul its Install Management “Under the Hood”, add Store Video Hosting, re-design the Store page, improve DLC support, add/enable Cloud Saves, implement add-on purchase checks and improve patch sizes.

Epic’s mid term goals (4 to 6 months from now) are to enable User Reviews, add Wishlists, improve the Newsfeed and Follow features, implement additional Payment Methods and Currencies, as well as Player Play Time Tracking, add Mod support for games, enable an Epic Games Overlay and make some improvements to the Library.

Last but not least, Epic’s long term goals are to add Achievements, Shopping Cart, Direct Carrier Billing and overhaul the Social functionalities!"

 

[oxidized]

These things are also things customers can get elsewhere, and the actual value of these features can be another point of discussion. Again: we don't know how many people really want Steam because of these features. What I do see is that the review system is a pretty shitty place to be reading reviews (though good for general impression if you care to read a whole bunch of them, similar to metacritic ), and the community features are really not convenient at all via Steam because it ties you to the platform. When your group of buddies goes to Overwatch... what then? This is why most gamers actually use Discord for grouping. Thát is a popular community service.

You're not wrong saying all of this, but you also have no clue as to how it relates to sales or profits. Its just a list of features that got implemented over time - mind you - over a decade of time and that the competition doesn't have yet... but has it on the roadmap for next year.

Try to step back from the bias and idea that Steam is objectively better. It may be to the end user, but that is really a different world than the publishers'. In the end its the publisher making the investment and taking the risk... Saying Steam is a better proposition is effectively saying all those publishers have gone crazy and you know better than all of them combined. Not something I'd go on...

Since Steam started it all, those features are taken for granted, it's something steam always had, i'm not saying reviews give you all the times a correct perspective on a game you want to buy, but they help you with some information, just like metacritic (i don't understand if this was meant as a joke, but makes no sense honestly). "the community features are really not convenient at all via Steam because it ties you to the platform" i'm not sure i understand what you mean. If your group of buddies goes to overwatch, and you want to go too, just go then, what's the problem, but Battlenet launcher is not EGS, because it's a launcher (not a store/platform like Steam and EGS are), and has more features, and works pretty much better than EGS ever did. Discord is mainly used because it's free and it's much more user friendly than Teamspeak or mumble or ventrilo.

Over a decade time? What? They had most of the feature they have now, even 10 years ago, the only thing that grew much bigger is the games catalog, and the community section due to that. The only thing devs or publishers to be precise, can argue or complain about, is the steam cut, which could be revisited, but still they offer much more to anyone compared to EGS, and there's no denying that.

About the steady trend: its clear as day that more and more content is offered outside of Steam and that the offering on Steam itself is a pretty muddy affair these days. There's so much, its a mess and titles get drowned, while the bigger releases avoid Steam altogether (Ubisoft is hit/miss, but EA consistently doesn't release on Steam, as do some others like Blizzard). Thát is also no good for a publisher that wants to get attention to its release. EGS is hands down a better idea in that sense because games are much more visible, simply because there are fewer of them.

You played the logic card earlier, isn't this pure logic?

What kind of logic is that, steam is much more used than EGS anyway, if you want visibility for your game, you can pay ads, and make it more visible, and you'll probably get the best out of it since the enormous user base steam has compared to EGS, that is if your game is "good" or is interesting to the mass.

 

[Basard]

Aaaaaaaand this is why we have $1500 GPUs that used to cost $649.

Not really...
I'm not advocating spending $65 on a game. I don't think I have ever spent more than $40--and that's a rarity.

 

[Warlen]

Epic has laid out their 2019 Roadmap for Store improvements a couple of weeks ago. We can watch and see if they follow through. For now I'm not signing up for an account there even for the free games until they've proven over time that they will maintain their store properly. Anyway, this is what Epic is claiming:

...Snip...

Great on Epic for adding improvements to their launcher, call me a pessimist, but I can see them adding these features to be more like Steam then turn around and start charging more of a revenue split closer to what Steam is currently.

 

[64K]

Great on Epic for adding improvements to their launcher, call me a pessimist, but I can see them adding these features to be more like Steam then turn around and start charging more of a revenue split closer to what Steam is currently.

imo they will but possibly still not as much as Steam is right now. I don't know but for sure but I don't think Epic is making much, if any, profit with their 12% cut. Once they grow their Store to a size that they are comfortable with I expect they will raise their cut above 12%. Businesses don't operate just to break even unless there's good reason for it. They operate to generate profit.

 

[Vayra86]

Since Steam started it all, those features are taken for granted, it's something steam always had, i'm not saying reviews give you all the times a correct perspective on a game you want to buy, but they help you with some information, just like metacritic (i don't understand if this was meant as a joke, but makes no sense honestly). "the community features are really not convenient at all via Steam because it ties you to the platform" i'm not sure i understand what you mean. If your group of buddies goes to overwatch, and you want to go too, just go then, what's the problem, but Battlenet launcher is not EGS, because it's a launcher (not a store/platform like Steam and EGS are), and has more features, and works pretty much better than EGS ever did. Discord is mainly used because it's free and it's much more user friendly than Teamspeak or mumble or ventrilo.

Over a decade time? What? They had most of the feature they have now, even 10 years ago, the only thing that grew much bigger is the games catalog, and the community section due to that. The only thing devs or publishers to be precise, can argue or complain about, is the steam cut, which could be revisited, but still they offer much more to anyone compared to EGS, and there's no denying that.

Steam didn't start any of this. You're sounding like an Apple fan now, convinced they were responsible for the Big Bang and all innovation that followed after it. Steam followed because there was a community demand. And like Steam, other services did the exact same thing.

Do I really need to provide a timeline with Steam's last decade feature releases? Let's get into that then...

https://www.pcgamer.com/steam-versions/

Four years post-release:

+5 years. Last decade development: cloud save.

+7 years post release: Mod Support /Workshop. (oopsie!) Also 2FA which EGS has at launch (though that should be considered as bare necessity IMO).

I'll leave you to enjoy the rest of the article on your own, but I think these are important highlights and above all, important perspective.

What kind of logic is that, steam is much more used than EGS anyway, if you want visibility for your game, you can pay ads, and make it more visible, and you'll probably get the best out of it since the enormous user base steam has compared to EGS, that is if your game is "good" or is interesting to the mass.

Actually no, even bad publicity is attention and a release on EGS is currently the number one way to get attention to your release. Look at this very topic, or are you going to deny that too?

Really man, I'm done. The info is there, enjoy...

 

[Imsochobo]

People complain, but at the end of the day they end up buying it anyway, if they like the game!

See Metro Exodus, huge success in the Epic Store, despite all the hate on the internet!

there is a couple of epic exclusives I liked, I don't buy them

 

[oxidized]

Steam didn't start any of this. You're sounding like an Apple fan now, convinced they were responsible for the Big Bang and all innovation that followed after it. Steam followed because there was a community demand. And like Steam, other services did the exact same thing.

Do I really need to provide a timeline with Steam's last decade feature releases? Let's get into that then...

https://www.pcgamer.com/steam-versions/

Four years post-release:

View attachment 120082

+5 years. Last decade development: cloud save.

View attachment 120083

+7 years post release: Mod Support /Workshop. (oopsie!) Also 2FA which EGS has at launch (though that should be considered as bare necessity IMO).

View attachment 120084

I'll leave you to enjoy the rest of the article on your own, but I think these are important highlights and above all, important perspective.

I've been a steam user since december 2005, i remember exactly what happened since then, a decade is 10 years, and 10 years ago it was 2009, the biggest features were already there, others interesting and useful feature came later, like refund for example, 3/4 years ago iirc. Steam started it all, there was no demand for something like this back then, actually i remember being pretty pissed at the idea of being forced to install additional software to play HL2, even because my internet wasn't even close as good as it's now.

Actually no, even bad publicity is attention and a release on EGS is currently the number one way to get attention to your release. Look at this very topic, or are you going to deny that too?

Really man, I'm done. The info is there, enjoy...

No, i agree that even bad publicity is attention, but that doesn't mean everyone will buy stuff from there, and releasing stuff on steam gives you probably more profit, except that Epic literally bribes publishers to counter that. Thank god you're done, seriously.

 

[Vayra86]

Steam started it all

Yup, they really did, again, you seem to have a problem with facts. I'm not done as long as that seems to be a returning issue, because I'm allergic to BS

What about voice? Gosh

Teamspeak:

Can you see a trend here? Hmmmmm. The only thing Steam 'started' is digital game distribution, and even in that they weren't first, but they did make it big. That is about as far as the credit goes. All those extra features existed and got big long before Steam decided it would help their bottom line too. Its a typical 'Valve Time' example. I'm sure you know what that means.

 

[oxidized]

Yup, they really did, again, you seem to have a problem with facts. I'm not done as long as that seems to be a returning issue, because I'm allergic to BS

View attachment 120085

View attachment 120086
What about voice? Gosh

Teamspeak:
View attachment 120087

Can you see a trend here? Hmmmmm. The only thing Steam 'started' is digital game distribution, and even in that they weren't first, but they did make it big. That is about as far as the credit goes. All those extra features existed and got big long before Steam decided it would help their bottom line too.

???????????????????????????????? Are you seriously this mental? I say steam started it all, and you point to me how 2 websites started before steam distributing mods and you point to me how teamspeak (a voip client) started in 2001? It's like i'm talking italian and you answer talking japanese.

With started it all i meant videogames platform, selling games, and creating a community around it, much before anyone else. Now the real answer is why you're point to me those things, those are different things from steam, although steam now offers in its way a workshop for mods, but apart from that, what's your point lmao? This is getting ridiculous, you're debating just for the sake of it.

 

[Vayra86]

???????????????????????????????? Are you seriously this mental? I say steam started it all, and you point to me how 2 websites started before steam distributing mods and you point to me how teamspeak (a voip client) started in 2001? It's like i'm talking italian and you answer talking japanese.

You sure fail at English, at least, stop hopping to a different subject every time you're facing proof.

I'm sure this isn't the right 'tone' for you. So be it.

If you can't get the overall context perhaps scroll back and read again. I think its pretty clear.

i still don't understand

I can see that. Scroll back, read carefully, and try again.

 

[oxidized]

You sure fail at English, at least, stop hopping to a different subject every time you're facing proof.

I'm sure this isn't the right 'tone' for you. So be it.

View attachment 120088

Oh my god you're out of your mind, i wasn't referring to mods, besides what's teamspeak got to do with it i still don't understand

 

[moproblems99]

Not really...
I'm not advocating spending $65 on a game. I don't think I have ever spent more than $40--and that's a rarity.

So how is saying:

If we all love steam so much, an extra five bucks for a sixty dollar game is not too much to ask.

Not advocating raising the price? If we start with a sixty dollar ($60) and then put an extra (add) five bucks ($5) - what do we get?

 

[JalleR]

AAAaaaand the game is preordered on Steam...…...

 

[oxidized]

You sure fail at English, at least, stop hopping to a different subject every time you're facing proof.

I'm sure this isn't the right 'tone' for you. So be it.

View attachment 120088

If you can't get the overall context perhaps scroll back and read again. I think its pretty clear.



I can see that. Scroll back, read carefully, and try again.

Please stop editing every fkn time your posts, make a new post if you have to add stuff, i don't get the notifications if you keep editing your posts.

Steam started it all, as i said above, and you responded with what? 2 Mod sites and 1 voip client? Is it me not understanding or you actually?

 

[Vayra86]

Please stop editing every fkn time your posts, make a new post if you have to add stuff, i don't get the notifications if you keep editing your posts.

Steam started it all, as i said above, and you responded with what? 2 Mod sites and 1 voip client? Is it me not understanding or you actually?

OK, I'll connect the dots for you.

Steam didn't start a mod community. Steam didn't start voice chat. Steam didn't bring new things to the table that weren't there at the time. All it did was absorb that demand into its own service. And it did that only YEARS AFTER release, while these services that I linked have all been there since early 2000's, which really was the moment they became feasible and usable for gaming.

The only real, new thing Steam did, was digital distribution of games. Consolidating gamers in one place because, simply enough, there was no alternative with the same reach.

Fast forward to 2018. EGS comes out with a bare storefront and no features. I invite you to put that next to the first year of Steam. Or its first three, even. Steam took its sweet (Valve!) time implementing the very same features you now call EGS inferior for. Not exactly fair, is it. Especially not because the majority of those features are on the roadmap for next year.

On top of that the services I named outside of Steam, still exist, and they actually do a better job at that than Steam does because they transcend the limitations of the Steam community, are not tied to a publisher or even to Valve. This makes them useful for ALL game releases and not just those on Steam. Now, more dots to connect: Because more releases happen outside of Steam, the relevance of that community is also starting to erode. It only needs some time and more and more people will realize that the old consolidation doesn't work anymore. People flock over to all sorts of places now. No point keeping Steam as the central place when you're spending most of your time elsewhere.

Capiche?

 

[Zifnab]

Please stop editing every fkn time your posts, make a new post if you have to add stuff, i don't get the notifications if you keep editing your posts.

Steam started it all, as i said above, and you responded with what? 2 Mod sites and 1 voip client? Is it me not understanding or you actually?

It's pretty obvious ...it is you not getting it. Steam never had an original idea. They were just smart enough to combine them at a time nobody had.

 

[Deleted member 177333]

I'd just like to see companies sell it on all platforms / storefronts and let the customers decide where to buy it. Forcing pre-order only to Steam and then taking it off after release is a crappy move as many gamers don't believe in giving a company money for something that's not out yet.

Ah well, not going to get angry about it, just figure if a game I want to play is released in a store I buy games (Steam or GOG), I'll be happy to buy it and if not, I'll play it "somewhere else".