Device IDs of Intel's USB 4.0 Host Controller and Strategy to Phase Out Type-A Revealed

[btarunr]

Device IDs of Intel's upcoming line of standalone USB 4.0 host controllers leaked to the web, courtesy Hardware Leaks (@_rogame). The controller possibly comes in three variants, bearing device IDs 0x9A1B, 0x9A1D, and 0x9A13. The alleged Intel confidential document screengrab speaks of USB 4.0 and USB 3.2 support (no mention of USB 2.0/1.1), and USB Power Delivery 3.0.

With USB 4.0, the USB-IF (USB Implementers Forum, or the special interest group behind USB), appears to want to standardize the USB type-C connector, eventually phasing out the type-A connector. To that effect, the document leaves out mention of USB 2.0/1.1 backwards compatibility. USB 4.0 debuts with an interface bandwidth of 40 Gbps, or 8 times that of USB 3.0, or over 80 times that of USB 2.0.



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[Ashtr1x]

Apple trash to peak. Wth is this nonsense. Very sad if true.

 

[jeremyshaw]

None of Intel's TB3 controllers have USB 2.0/1.1 either (despite also being USB 3.x compatible). USB 3.x controllers need USB 2.0 controllers to get USB2.0, too. Usually, that comes from the southbridge or via a different controller (sometimes, a different controller on the same die). They are different systems that happen to usually share the same port (though rarely, if ever, the same lines - only exception I can think of is Nvidia's likely moribund VirtualLink).

So on the Intel TB3 controller example (along with many other examples of external USB 3.x chips), the USB 2.0 lines are taken from the southbridge and passed right on through.

 

[Tomorrow]

Well good riddance Type-A. You won't be missed.

 

[zlobby]

When will they deploy fiber-only? And some phat copper where power delivery is also needed.

 

[R-T-B]

Apple trash to peak. Wth is this nonsense. Very sad if true.

Does apple even use USB-C? I don't think they do.

 

[Tomorrow]

Does apple even use USB-C? I don't think they do.

On Ipad maybe. I dont remember.

 

[Chaitanya]

On Ipad maybe. I dont remember.

Yes on iPads and Macs(thunderbolt) as well. Only iPhones are still using lightning connector.

 

[dyonoctis]

Apple trash to peak. Wth is this nonsense. Very sad if true.

Motherboards are probably still going to use a few classic USB A 3.0 for a while just for compatibility sake. But going foward, USB-C will be the new standard. You don't miss serial ports do you ?

 

[Caring1]

You don't miss serial ports do you ?

Only on work related computers that need them.
Lack of the Serial Port makes it a pain to upgrade.

 

[Vya Domus]

Meanwhile motherboards are still shipped with USB 2.0 connections, which is literally a 20 years old specification. How about we get rid of those before they start shipping boards with 4 different USB standards.

 

[ncrs]

@btarunr: I hate to sound like a broken record, but the proper name is: USB4 and not "USB 4.0" as stated in the official announcment by USB-IF.

Meanwhile motherboards are still shipped with USB 2.0 connections, which is literally a 20 years old specification. How about we get rid of those before they start shipping boards with 4 different USB standards.

The problem is as @jeremyshaw wrote: not all USB 3.x connectors are capable of supporting 2.0/1.1 devices. For example the new USB-C motherboard connectors for cases usually do not. Keyboards, mice and generally USB HID devices are 2.0/1.1.

 

[Tomorrow]

@btarunr: I hate to sound like a broken record, but the proper name is: USB4 and not "USB 4.0" as stated in the official announcment by USB-IF.

Who cares. USB-IF really screwed up themselves with the whole USB 3.2 2x2 blablabla. Why would we respect them now by following their new naming?
I say screw them.

 

[ncrs]

Who cares. USB-IF really screwed up themselves with the whole USB 3.2 2x2 blablabla. Why would we respect them now by following their new naming?
I say screw them.

It's not about respecting USB-IF, but about reporting integrity of TPU.

 

[R-T-B]

Who cares. USB-IF really screwed up themselves with the whole USB 3.2 2x2 blablabla. Why would we respect them now by following their new naming?
I say screw them.

We are supposedly journalists around here, so I would think they'd care.

 

[Vya Domus]

The problem is as @jeremyshaw wrote: not all USB 3.x connectors are capable of supporting 2.0/1.1 devices. For example the new USB-C motherboard connectors for cases usually do not. Keyboards, mice and generally USB HID devices are 2.0/1.1.

You have to move on at some point.

 

[ncrs]

You have to move on at some point.

Move on? Are there any keyboards or mice that support USB 3.x (as in only 3.x with no 2.0/1.1)?

 

[Vya Domus]

Move on? Are there any keyboards or mice that support USB 3.x (as in only 3.x with no 2.0/1.1)?

They don't because the boards still support USB 2/1.1, see the problem ? Yes, you have to move on, if manufactures start releasing boards with just USB 3 you'll see devices supporting only USB 3 as well.

 

[Assimilator]

Only on work related computers that need them.
Lack of the Serial Port makes it a pain to upgrade.

WTF are you upgrading via COM in the year 2020...

The problem is as @jeremyshaw wrote: not all USB 3.x connectors are capable of supporting 2.0/1.1 devices. For example the new USB-C motherboard connectors for cases usually do not. Keyboards, mice and generally USB HID devices are 2.0/1.1.

Incorrect: as jeremy noted, it's the controller(s) behind those connectors that determine what version(s) of USB devices are supported, or not.

That may sound nitpicky, but it's critical: consider the case where you plug a USB 1.1 Type-A device into a USB 3.2 Type-C connector (via a Type-A to Type-C adapter). The data from the device will still be received by whatever controller is at the other end of the connector's cable - if that controller is a USB 3.x controller, it'll say "I dunno what to do with this" and pass the data down the chain to the next controller - which happens to be the USB 2.0/1.1 controller, which does know what to do. So there's a little more latency, but your legacy USB devices are still going to work.

Important to note here is that the USB 2.0/1.1 controller I mentioned is actually just part of the CPU or PCH. There are no discrete USB 1.1 or 2.0 controller chips (except on add-in cards), as these versions of the interface are so well-known, small (in terms of die area) and simple to implement, that every new PC has implementations of these versions baked in. This is unlikely to change within the next decade - if ever.

tl;dr don't worry about your USB 2.0/1.1 devices no longer working in new computers. They will continue to work, probably until the end of time, thanks to Type-A to Type-C adapters.

 

[Frick]

WTF are you upgrading via COM in the year 2020...

Firmware/OS on various industrial/electrical units. Lots of things really if you're in the right field.

 

[Xajel]

Does apple even use USB-C? I don't think they do.

Dude, Apple uses Type-C in everything except the iPhone and some of it's accessories, plus the wireless keyboard and mouse they have. Those uses lighting to charge.

iMac, MacBooks, iPad, uses Type-C exclusively and Mac Pro has both Type-C and Type-A.

 

[Chrispy_]

I predict that new USB-A devices will still be in production by 2030, and whilst USB-C may be more popular, it will still not be the dominant connector for USB because those muppets at the USB-IF can't standardise anything.

 

[ncrs]

That may sound nitpicky, but it's critical: consider the case where you plug a USB 1.1 Type-A device into a USB 3.2 Type-C connector (via a Type-A to Type-C adapter). The data from the device will still be received by whatever controller is at the other end of the connector's cable - if that controller is a USB 3.x controller, it'll say "I dunno what to do with this" and pass the data down the chain to the next controller - which happens to be the USB 2.0/1.1 controller, which does know what to do. So there's a little more latency, but your legacy USB devices are still going to work.

This only happens if the USB 3.x controller can actually pass it down the chain. This is not always the case, for example this USB 3.1 A-Key to 3.0 converter cable requires a separate connection to a USB 2.0/1.1 controller:

Important to note here is that the USB 2.0/1.1 controller I mentioned is actually just part of the CPU or PCH. There are no discrete USB 1.1 or 2.0 controller chips (except on add-in cards), as these versions of the interface are so well-known, small (in terms of die area) and simple to implement, that every new PC has implementations of these versions baked in. This is unlikely to change within the next decade - if ever.

tl;dr don't worry about your USB 2.0/1.1 devices no longer working in new computers. They will continue to work, probably until the end of time, thanks to Type-A to Type-C adapters.

While this probably will be the case it's not guaranteed by the USB 3.x specc.

Edit: curious, you can't inline WebP on this forum?

 

[zlobby]

Meanwhile motherboards are still shipped with USB 2.0 connections, which is literally a 20 years old specification. How about we get rid of those before they start shipping boards with 4 different USB standards.

I'd rather have an old USB2.0 than some unpatchable Thunderbolt.

 

[Chrispy_]

Meanwhile motherboards are still shipped with USB 2.0 connections, which is literally a 25 years old specification. How about we get rid of those before they start shipping boards with 4 different USB standards.

FTFY.

I bought Windows 98 and a Microsoft Natural Keyboard Elite in, uh..., 1998 I guess - and it was my second USB keyboard and by then Plug-and-Pray had finally been refined enough to earn its official moniker. I'm guessing USB was already out for Windows95's official plug-and-play launch hype 25 years ago.